WoW Petopia Community

Kirsten wrote:Sorry, but furthermore, I have screenshot proof that that's a rumor because I found more than half of my northrend rare achievement in twenty minutes. (That I just thought of and saw on my facebook to see the timestamps of the WoW clock.)

Think you could link the page here? I'd be interested in seeing a 'twenty minute half-Frostbitten run' just in general!

Only way you can determine it is if you have people sitting over every inch of rarespawn areas at once.

Yeah, all at the exact same time, for anywhere from 10-14, 16 or more hours, without any breaks, which I've never heard of..anyone doing. But even then, it could all be coincidence, which was the point I was trying to get at--unless you're extensivley monitering these rares for weeks with raid fulls of people, you have no way of knowing the difference between mechanic and coincidence. Even then, well..we need screenshot proof to believe anything.

You can have them spawn in 20 minutes. Doesnt mean they were all up at the same time. You killed one, another spawned somewhere. So yeah...not a rumor. Ponderance DID have a raid full people. Thats how he proved the cap existed.

But -where- is the proof? You keep saying Ponderance proved it but I see no proof, anywhere. The only 'proof' I see is him saying that he saw it, which can just as easily be disproven by someone saying they got a group together and found at least 5 rares at the same time.

And I still stick to the PTR as solid proof aswell, yes the PTR can be buggy, but I doubt the so called 'rare cap' randomly dissapears (if it exists) on the PTR.
Both on an off the PTR people have found upwards of 8, 10 or 12 rares. Until I see PROOF from ponderance (not him saying so) then I just don't believe it.

And yes, he did have a raid group, but monitering the rares for one night doesn't fix it..again, its entirely possible that it was coincidence as he only did it for one night (or so I recall.)

Zuilu wrote:And yes, he did have a raid group, but monitering the rares for one night doesn't fix it..again, its entirely possible that it was coincidence as he only did it for one night (or so I recall.)

That's what I recall too.

Pond's got loads of good information on his sites, but this is the one point which I think is a coincidence.

Zuilu wrote:But -where- is the proof? You keep saying Ponderance proved it but I see no proof, anywhere. The only 'proof' I see is him saying that he saw it, which can just as easily be disproven by someone saying they got a group together and found at least 5 rares at the same time.

And I still stick to the PTR as solid proof aswell, yes the PTR can be buggy, but I doubt the so called 'rare cap' randomly dissapears (if it exists) on the PTR.
Both on an off the PTR people have found upwards of 8, 10 or 12 rares. Until I see PROOF from ponderance (not him saying so) then I just don't believe it.

And yes, he did have a raid group, but monitering the rares for one night doesn't fix it..again, its entirely possible that it was coincidence as he only did it for one night (or so I recall.)

The proof is him himself. He didn't monitor for one night. He monitored a lot longer than that. If you want your proof, go to his multiple sites or just ask him. He's on the forums. He probably has screencaps.

and I really need to restate this. PTR is NOT live, therefore not proof. Live is the only thing thats ever definite. PTR changes and has faster respawn timers on a lot of things so they can be TESTED. What goes on live is not always whats on the PTR. Thats the point of PTR. Please stop trying to use this as proof or claim it coincidence because of what you found on the PTR.

PTR doesnt have caps on much of anything. Why? It's a TEST REALM. you can't test something very well with a 24 hr respawn timer.

PTR does not have faster respawn timers, it's the exact same as live realms. They're more worried about the large content like dungeons, raids, quests, etc. They wouldn't go out of their way to tinker with rare spawn times. Molten Front rare timers are consistent to what they were on the PTR, as well as other rares.

Vephriel wrote:PTR does not have faster respawn timers, it's the exact same as live realms. They're more worried about the large content like dungeons, raids, quests, etc. They wouldn't go out of their way to tinker with rare spawn times. Molten Front rare timers are consistent to what they were on the PTR, as well as other rares.

I've heard people finding Deth at every hour. It was on wow forums and people I've talked to on my server in trade chat. It's been a topic of discussion before. Madexx certainly wasnt 6 - 24 hrs on the PTR.

Jessibelle wrote:The proof is him himself. He didn't monitor for one night. He monitored a lot longer than that. If you want your proof, go to his multiple sites or just ask him. He's on the forums. He probably has screencaps.

That's not proof; that's one guy saying it's true and you taking him at his word. Pond's definitely done his homework on TLPD and other mounts, but no matter how stellar his track record is, it does not conclusively prove that there is a rare cap in Northrend.

Jessibelle wrote:and I really need to restate this. PTR is NOT live, therefore not proof. Live is the only thing thats ever definite. PTR changes and has faster respawn timers on a lot of things so they can be TESTED. What goes on live is not always whats on the PTR. Thats the point of PTR. Please stop trying to use this as proof or claim it coincidence because of what you found on the PTR.

PTR doesnt have caps on much of anything. Why? It's a TEST REALM. you can't test something very well with a 24 hr respawn timer.

This is absolutely untrue, especially the emphasized text. After a good number of us from these very forums camped the hell out of the Molten Front for 4.2, we found the exact same spawn timers as on live servers. Yes, things can change on the PTR before they hit live, but unless you can name a specific case of an individual rare spawn's timer changing, you have no proof that this has actually happened.

Jessibelle wrote:I've heard people finding Deth at every hour. It was on wow forums and people I've talked to on my server in trade chat. It's been a topic of discussion before. Madexx certainly wasnt 6 - 24 hrs on the PTR.

Wrong on both counts; both of their spawn timers were documented on the beta/PTR as they are on live. Again, this was by a number of people here on the according forums. Deth'tilac has never had a one hour spawn timer.

Please stop beating people over the heads for disagreeing with your own speculations. You've made your point; agree to disagree.

I'm looking for Live server proof. Not PTR ever changing server proof. So it will be thrown back at them if they keep throwing it at me. Stop beating me with PTR stuff and you won't get the backlash. Simple. Don't bash someones hard work either. Ponderance did do a lot of hard work, a lot more than some of us ever have. That's like saying I got this shiny axe from a raid and getting called a liar cause a few people never saw it drop before but yet here I have it and other people have the axe too from same raid.

Madexx's has changed. I did state that already. He had like a 4 hr respawn timer on the PTR. Live he's 6 - 24 hrs.

Jessibelle wrote:I'm looking for Live server proof. Not PTR ever changing server proof. So it will be thrown back at them if they keep throwing it at me. Stop beating me with PTR stuff and you won't get the backlash. Simple.

Madexx's has changed. I did state that already. He had like a 4 hr respawn timer on the PTR. Live he's 6 - 24 hrs.

We saw stable timers from all ten of the new rares on the PTR for a solid month. The only time that the timers were dodgy was when the servers weren't stable. We observed the exact same timers on live in the first couple of weeks, since a lot of us were still out there consistently then.

Stop taking what you're saying as fact and acknowledge it as a personal opinion and you might be taken seriously.

Which PTR are you referring to regarding Madexx? I've only ever seen the normal timer on multiple PTRs.

The only WoW PTR there is. PTR isn't taken very seriously either so the same can be said if other wanna be taken seriously with their opinions on the matter. It's "Jessi taking Ponderances hard work as facts VS 'Well on the PTR it was...'". It's going in circles.

honestly it's best this gets closed anyway. this conversation is more than done.

My issue here is not with whether the cap exists or not, but with your definition of proof. Somebody's word is NOT proof unless said word comes directly from the person who programmed the Northrend rare spawns. The rare cap might or might not exist, and I won't claim to know which it is, because my beliefs are irrelevant here. My point is, no matter how much you want them to be, no matter how much insisting you do, the things Ponderance believes aren't automatically true simply because he says they are. I'm not calling him a liar. I'm simply refusing to accept him as the authority on this. I fail to see how you can continue arguing this point. Everyone has the right to believe what they like, including you, so believe away. Just don't insist that your beliefs are facts when you have no evidence beyond "this person said so". That's no evidence at all.

If I'm to be honest, this thread has degenerated into a rather heated atmosphere. With no proof being offered (and/or able to be offered) in either direction, I'm thinking that closing the discussion off might be a good thing. There's already ample proof that no, we can't link to spawn timers, so the posting's served its purpose. And with the arguments getting as heated as they are, it's likely best to close it off and call it a day.

No proof can be offered that they aren't linked, no proof can be offered that they are linked, so let's simply call this 'closed and done with'.

Jessibelle wrote:The only WoW PTR there is. PTR isn't taken very seriously either so the same can be said if other wanna be taken seriously with their opinions on the matter. It's "Jessi taking Ponderances hard work as facts VS 'Well on the PTR it was...'". It's going in circles.

honestly it's best this gets closed anyway. this conversation is more than done.

You are saying "Ponderance's word means more than everyone else's" when you make blanket statements like that.

Also, where is your proof that Deth'tilac has a one hour spawn timer? All you did was say "I heard this," which isn't proof either.

Do you see the blatant hypocrisy of your statements? This is why you continue to get into "debates" like this in thread after thread after thread. It's frustrating that you berate others for it, but do it yourself. Regardless of whether this thread is locked or not, you need to learn this.

Caelan wrote:My issue here is not with whether the cap exists or not, but with your definition of proof. Somebody's word is NOT proof unless said word comes directly from the person who programmed the Northrend rare spawns. The rare cap might or might not exist, and I won't claim to know which it is, because my beliefs are irrelevant here. My point is, no matter how much you want them to be, no matter how much insisting you do, the things Ponderance believes aren't automatically true simply because he says they are. I'm not calling him a liar. I'm simply refusing to accept him as the authority on this. I fail to see how you can continue arguing this point. Everyone has the right to believe what they like, including you, so believe away. Just don't insist that your beliefs are facts when you have no evidence beyond "this person said so". That's no evidence at all.

I'll take someones hard work over "Well in PTR it was this" anyday. That was the point I was mostly making to begin with because PTR isn't live. Ponderance did his testing on live servers, not ptr. And it's not right to say he's a liar and he's wrong just because it was different on the PTR.

Kurasu wrote:If I'm to be honest, this thread has degenerated into a rather heated atmosphere. With no proof being offered (and/or able to be offered) in either direction, I'm thinking that closing the discussion off might be a good thing. There's already ample proof that no, we can't link to spawn timers, so the posting's served its purpose. And with the arguments getting as heated as they are, it's likely best to close it off and call it a day.

No proof can be offered that they aren't linked, no proof can be offered that they are linked, so let's simply call this 'closed and done with'.

agreed, definitely. The personal attacks are getting out of control too. Shame when debates turn like this. I did admit Ponderance said the cap was lifted so now there is no cap. Now it's all timer based. I wasnt aware of the update til it was pointed out to me.

Jessibelle wrote:

Caelan wrote:My issue here is not with whether the cap exists or not, but with your definition of proof. Somebody's word is NOT proof unless said word comes directly from the person who programmed the Northrend rare spawns. The rare cap might or might not exist, and I won't claim to know which it is, because my beliefs are irrelevant here. My point is, no matter how much you want them to be, no matter how much insisting you do, the things Ponderance believes aren't automatically true simply because he says they are. I'm not calling him a liar. I'm simply refusing to accept him as the authority on this. I fail to see how you can continue arguing this point. Everyone has the right to believe what they like, including you, so believe away. Just don't insist that your beliefs are facts when you have no evidence beyond "this person said so". That's no evidence at all.

I'll take someones hard work over "Well in PTR it was this" anyday. That was the point I was mostly making to begin with because PTR isn't live. Ponderance did his testing on live servers, not ptr. And it's not right to say he's a liar and he's wrong just because it was different on the PTR.

We did plenty of testing on live too, Jessibelle, a fact that you continue to choose to ignore because it doesn't support your argument. It is not right for you to say we're wrong simply because we're not Ponderance. We put in just as much work.

Anyway, I'm done beating my head against the brick wall here. Can't enlighten the stubborn.

Jessibelle wrote:I'll take someones hard work over "Well in PTR it was this" anyday. That was the point I was mostly making to begin with because PTR isn't live. Ponderance did his testing on live servers, not ptr. And it's not right to say he's a liar and he's wrong just because it was different on the PTR.

I'd like to point out that not only did I say absolutely nothing about the PTR in my post, I also explicitly stated that I am NOT calling Ponderance a liar, so I'm not entirely certain where this response came from. That said, I'm willing to let the debate go if everyone else is.

I am stubborn cause you're demanding proof when you yourself cannot provide your own. I never once said I had proof beyond Ponderance's word and my own eyes. But the proof required here is live servers...not PTR. i never once said it wasnt work on the PTR but things change a lot on the ptr. So it's never definite there. Live servers are usually pretty set in stone/this is how it is sort of thing.

So thats my story and stickin to it.

EDIT: Cae it wasn't directed at you. You're one of the few presenting a good argument. Others were using PTR as 'proof' when it's not. Sorry, I should've been more clear about that. If PTR was left out and if maybe Ponderance(who has an account here) can post his information here, we'd be able to settle this. I do appreciate your input though, greatly. Another thing I wanted to point out...I've tried asking Gms before on the matter. They've said they're not allowed to tell us. So we can't get a GM and Dev to spill the beans.

Jess, you're getting quite spiteful with the whole debate, I'd really suggest just stepping away from the thread, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. :I