Exotic beasts at any level for BM hunters?

[Sesamee]

With Cata blizzard stated that they wanted each spec to feel unique starting at level 10. A level 10 BM hunter should feel like a BM hunter. A level 10 MM hunter should feel like a MM hunter. Exotic pets are the hallmark of BM so being able to tame them early on just makes sense to me. Maybe only allow their exotic abilities to be turned on at 69 or something.

Although I do love the idea of a long epic quest line to unlock the ability to tame exotics. Having something so awesome at lvl 10 would be, well, awesome, lol. Although MM and SV would need something equally cool so prob not gonna happen.

[Ziarre]

Kill Command is the core ability of BM, so one could argue -that- is the skill one would need to feel like a BM hunter at level 10. Exotics add more diversity to BM choices, but the playstyle feels the same whether you're using a spirit beast or a wolf.

[Sesamee]

I disagree that Kill Command is what makes or breaks the BM spec. Kill Command may be a signature move of the spec but the ability to tame and use exotic beasts is what the spec is all about.

[Andine]

I disagree that Kill Command is what makes or breaks the BM spec. Kill Command may be a signature move of the spec but the ability to tame and use exotic beasts is what the spec is all about.

Definitely. I don't spec BM to be able to tell my turtle "bite him harder". I do that to be able to tame unusual and exotic stuff.

[Makoes]

Honestly for me Beastial Wrath is what I consider to be BM's signature attack. Kill Command is a close second, and the ability to tame exotics has always been an added bonus for me...If Exotics were the "you must have this or you fail" then yeah, they might be more signature-ish, but they arent. BM's can run with any pet exotic or not and be fine.

But an MM not using Chimera shot
Surv not using explosive shot
BM not using Wrath/KC

OMG THEY FAIL!!!! /votekick /votekick NOW!! (<---completely overdramatic and not ment to be serious at all)

[Sesamee]

Of course BM can use any pet but why would you when the exotic pets are generally much more useful. Why use a spider for the web when you can use a silithid and get a web plus stamina buff? Or a shale spider and get a web plus Kings? Why use a cat when you can use a spirit beast and get a heal that might come in handy plus the agi buff? I would argue that a BM hunter using a regular pet over an exotic pet in situations like rated pvp or progression raids (barring any needed buff/debuff an exotic may not have like the 8% magic debuff) isn't doing it right. Obviously if you're just having fun or doing farm content bring whatever pet you like.

Every spec has it's signature moves and abilities. But what sets BM apart from MM and SV is the exotic pets. Of course it's not the only thing but it is the most important thing, the thing that most defines the spec, IMO.

[Slickrock]

Problem is some of the exotic abilities would be OP at early levels, mainly the corehound. And I don't think nerfing the abilities is the right path either.

The easiest route is likely to allow taming at early levels, but the abilities don't kick in until 69, or whatever is appropriate. It should be a lot sooner. 30ish perhaps.

[Ziarre]

The 'easiest' route, technically, is for things to remain as they are. The easiest CHANGE might be what you mentioned.

Playstyle is what makes a spec feel like a spec. Bestial Wrath and Kill Command are innate parts of the BM playstyle. Exotics, however, are not required by a long shot - not unless you're running in a raid that absolutely cannot bring Stamina, or Kings, or Time Warp/Heroism/Bloodlust, or a battle rez. Spirit beast heal is a nice bonus, but isn't going to make or break anything unless your healers are all dead - rare exceptions notwithstanding.

Exotics are part of what makes us Beast Masters, I agree. However, they are not so much a part of Beast Mastery that we can't save it for something to look forward to as we level.

[Worba]

Problem is some of the exotic abilities would be OP at early levels, mainly the corehound.

No they wouldn't - by way of one example, lifeblood has a haste effect but it, like everything else, scales down at the lower levels so as not to unbalance things. That which gives you 30% haste at lvl 69 would only give 1% at lvl 10, etc... so power level is not the issue there. However I will grant you that separating 1) ability to tame exotics as a lvl 10, and 2) saving exotic pet special abilities for lvl 69 might be a way to give BM hunters something more appropriate at lvl 10 whilst not leaving a ragged gaping hole to fill at lvl 69...

And yes exotics are the BM signature item, both literally (top talent and our spec's namesake...) and figuratively (even among non-BM hunters many dual spec into BM for the exotics).

No you don't have to use an exotic to be effective, but if you want brand identity, well, bestial wrath was overshadowed back in 3.0, and kill command while effective doesn't have anything like the excitement value of aimed shot or explosive shot.

[Ziarre]

I'unno, a nice KC crit is a thing of beauty. And it's a little more than effective considering it ranks up there with Kill Shot for priority.

[Worba]

That's cool but it's about more than just combat effectiveness.

If MM had a nuketastic arcane shot at lvl 10 instead of aimed shot, it would still be boring.

[Ziarre]

Kill Command is more than equal to Aimed Shot, in my opinion - in both effectiveness and fun.

[Worba]

Yes, some obviously do like KC*, but tame exotics could still be added at lvl 10 in addition to it.



*I don't dislike it, I just find it utilitarian at best. Especially when the target is moving around and you're sporadically getting the "target not in range" message.

[TygerDarkstorm]

The point is, Ziarre, that BM's signature is exotic pets. We're not talking about combat or anything here. When you look at a hunter and you see an exotic pet by their side, you know immediately which spec that hunter is. BM is one of the only specs people pick up just so they can get the extra shiny BM only pets. Most people pick BM because of the exotic pets, not because Kill Command and Bestial Wrath are "signature" moves. The play style of BM is an added bonus on top of the pets.

As it is in Cata, Intimidation is a hugely lackluster level 10 ability to gain for picking BM when MM gets Aimed Shot and SV gets Explosive Shot right off the bat. Young BM hunters already start out kind of gimped considering that level 10 ability is supposed to be a signature ability to that particular spec. Intimidation has uses, but it's not nearly as cool as getting exotic pet taming at level 10 (or getting BW at level 10), and BM's signature is the exotic pets.

There's very little reason not to give BM hunters the ability to tame exotics at a low level as there are plenty of easy ways to avoid any "OP" exotic abilities from being active. There's quite a few low level exotics that have to just sit around and wait/hope their loving hunter will come along and tame them after that hunter hits level 69. And I do think that Blizzard's creative enough to fill something nice in the level 69 learned ability slot if they lower the level on exotic beast taming (I still personally standby leaving the exotic abilities turned off until this level, but I'm sure there's other solutions).

[Slickrock]

Yes, some obviously do like KC*, but tame exotics could still be added at lvl 10 in addition to it.



*I don't dislike it, I just find it utilitarian at best. Especially when the target is moving around and you're sporadically getting the "target not in range" message.

They are fixing that in Panda. KC will be signature damage in Panda.

[Kalliope]

That's cool but it's about more than just combat effectiveness.

If MM had a nuketastic arcane shot at lvl 10 instead of aimed shot, it would still be boring.

I will absolutely take chimera shot at level 10.

Self-heal that low? Lowbie hunters would be even MORE ridiculous in bgs.

And that's the equivalent to exotics at that level, sooooo yeah, I understand why Blizzard is withholding both of those things.

[Ziarre]

Hah, and Aimed Shot (with Careful Aim) is rediculous enough in a BG as it is. Fun times leveling my MM alt, fun times. "Oh, you're at full health! LET'S FIX THAT. "

[Worba]

Lvl 10 chim shot <> lvl 10 exotic pets.

Not even in the same galaxy.

[Lisaara]

I must agree with Mustasch. Being able to tame Exotics at 69 feels like you're finally learning to handle the stronger, more, well... EXOTIC beasts. It feels like you've put your training in, and are finally learned enough to convince these beasts of higher standing to be a companion.

Although, I also like the idea of 2nd abilities being unlocked at 69, as it would be much the same to me, only rather than being learned enough to befriend exotic pets, It's like your understanding of beasts allows you to tap into certain beasts, giving insight into these exotic companions, unlocking their full potential.

Personally, I miss class quests that put lore like this into a class. For all mechanics sake, a DK is nothing more than a Warrior with shadow damage and runes. I'd prefer the days of truly KNOWING one's class.

Also, Xakaal, it's no longer a talent in MoP, it's just an innate level 69 ability taught by Hunter Trainers to all BM hunters.

^ This

[Ellaran]

If they're not going to give it to use as the spec's signature, then they should lower it back to 60 or lower. It's no longer the end-of-the-tree super skill, it doesn't need to be that high. Let us have the ability to get exotics before we go to Outland again.