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I knew there was glyph I was missing. The chimera I put as I didn't remember which one to put in for marks. For gemming for arm pen. I'm don't think I will do it. I've read up on it and I don't have enough native arm pen to really start gemming for it. Besides I've told several times here to no gem for it and my arm pen rating then was not that far off from what it is now.

AdamSavage wrote:I knew there was glyph I was missing. The chimera I put as I didn't remember which one to put in for marks. For gemming for arm pen. I'm don't think I will do it. I've read up on it and I don't have enough native arm pen to really start gemming for it. Besides I've told several times here to no gem for it and my arm pen rating then was not that far off from what it is now.

The gem setup I posted I calculated as optimal. Whether or not you want to use it is up to you.

Edit: BTW, kill shot glyph in true raid setup is poor, as everyone else is smashing their similar buttons.

Chrizesu wrote:

AdamSavage wrote:I knew there was glyph I was missing. The chimera I put as I didn't remember which one to put in for marks. For gemming for arm pen. I'm don't think I will do it. I've read up on it and I don't have enough native arm pen to really start gemming for it. Besides I've told several times here to no gem for it and my arm pen rating then was not that far off from what it is now.

The gem setup I posted I calculated as optimal. Whether or not you want to use it is up to you.

Edit: BTW, kill shot glyph in true raid setup is poor, as everyone else is smashing their similar buttons.

What would I replace the kill shot with then ? It's double the amount of kill shots I can get off..

AdamSavage wrote:

Chrizesu wrote:

AdamSavage wrote:I knew there was glyph I was missing. The chimera I put as I didn't remember which one to put in for marks. For gemming for arm pen. I'm don't think I will do it. I've read up on it and I don't have enough native arm pen to really start gemming for it. Besides I've told several times here to no gem for it and my arm pen rating then was not that far off from what it is now.

The gem setup I posted I calculated as optimal. Whether or not you want to use it is up to you.

Edit: BTW, kill shot glyph in true raid setup is poor, as everyone else is smashing their similar buttons.

What would I replace the kill shot with then ? It's double the amount of kill shots I can get off..

1.6 to be exact.

Hmm. I do like the advice but I have read over and over again to not gem arm pen till your 600 with gear alone..

http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/200 ... s-agility/

AdamSavage wrote:Hmm. I do like the advice but I have read over and over again to not gem arm pen till your 600 with gear alone..

The more ArPen you have, the more each point is worth. So the more ArPen you have via your gear, the more you will get out of gemming for it, and the opposite is true as well.

You only want to gem for ArPen when it means you're pretty close to the 1400 cap (close being reaching over 1000 when factoring gems in), and consider any procs you might have as well (you don't want a proc to put your effective ArPen over 1400). Personally I wouldn't gem for ArPen until I've got at least 800 from gear, but would really wait until 900 or so.

There is no rule for ArPen, there is no "ok gem for it now" moment, it is something you need to assess for yourself on an individual basis while following some guidelines.
I think part of the problem with gemming ArPen is that there's this belief that you are a "proper" Marksman Hunter once you start gemming for it, so people want to feel they have "arrived". Thing is, this is totally an absurd concept.

Yeah, but if you look at his trinket procs. Before 400 or 800 was normal, marks would start gemming once they had certain trinket procs.

I already stated he could chose for it, I still suggest the oranges, but I personally didn't go ArP on my hunter so it wouldn't kill her BM spec, which I use when I feel like being lazy.

Edit: I just realized I haven't discussed the other issue with armor pen yet. ArP also increases your dps on heavily armored foes vs. your peers, but when it comes to something that more relies on a magic ability to reduce physical damage, well, yeah, damn.

Chrizesu wrote:Yeah, but if you look at his trinket procs. Before 400 or 800 was normal, marks would start gemming once they had certain trinket procs.

In the case of the NES proc, you would be "soft capped" at 722 ArPen, of course you'd only hit the cap during trinket procs. Really, it's best to not rely on procs for your ArPen since that stat functions much more strongly at a fixed rate. The NES really isn't a good trinket to build your ArPen around.

Edit: I just realized I haven't discussed the other issue with armor pen yet. ArP also increases your dps on heavily armored foes vs. your peers, but when it comes to something that more relies on a magic ability to reduce physical damage, well, yeah, damn.

True, but really you're looking at raid bosses for optimizing your build, and all raid bosses have a set armour rate, so ArPen works on them all. The key thing with ArPen build Hunters is that you must be able to ensure that you can fire an Auto Shot every time it is up and a Steady Shot every time it is up. This means being able to really manage movement properly, as those Physical damage shots are huge, especially Auto Shot which makes up the majority of your damage.

So true. I must look funky like I'm always doing the heigen dance when I'm raiding.

With this Trinket I should have enough or very close to enough arm pen to start gemming for the rest.

The Ruby Sanctum trinkets are very, very nice indeed.

Wassa wrote:11k dps may seem high, but it shouldn't be too hard now in ICC with the 15% buff if you have good gear and the right raid comp. I've been finding myself turning off recount lately when I play, but I think I had close to 11k on festergut 25 two or three weeks ago. I need to find that WOL.

Adam, you still need to fix a few more gems and enchants, namely:
Meta: change to relentless +21agi +3% crit dam so you need only one blue gem
Cloak: change enchant to agi
Bow: change scope to +40 crit
Pants: redo the gems to have your nightmare tear in the blue slot and an agi gem in the red slot

I would also recommend steady shot glyph over chimera glyph.

I believe I fixed everything up. Unless I missed something.

EDIT: I just realized I didn't have the loggsplitters. Those would give me more Arm pen as well.

Today on the big dudes in the traps before the first boss I was able to get up to 8,450k ish dps. This was with horns of winter, druid buff and the battle shout buff. I have tier10 2 piece and I checked out female dwarf and there is about a 228 dps increase. The number shrinks to about 100 dps more when I have loggsplitters on.

I also played around with some gems and I understand why it's bad to gem arrm pen to early. The way my gear is now if I gem it then It will actually lower my dps according to female dwarf.

AdamSavage wrote:Today on the big dudes in the traps before the first boss I was able to get up to 8,450k ish dps. This was with horns of winter, druid buff and the battle shout buff. I have tier10 2 piece and I checked out female dwarf and there is about a 228 dps increase. The number shrinks to about 100 dps more when I have loggsplitters on.

I also played around with some gems and I understand why it's bad to gem arrm pen to early. The way my gear is now if I gem it then It will actually lower my dps according to female dwarf.

Odd, it increased when I did it. You try my configuration?

Chrizesu wrote:

AdamSavage wrote:Today on the big dudes in the traps before the first boss I was able to get up to 8,450k ish dps. This was with horns of winter, druid buff and the battle shout buff. I have tier10 2 piece and I checked out female dwarf and there is about a 228 dps increase. The number shrinks to about 100 dps more when I have loggsplitters on.

I also played around with some gems and I understand why it's bad to gem arrm pen to early. The way my gear is now if I gem it then It will actually lower my dps according to female dwarf.

Odd, it increased when I did it. You try my configuration?

All I did was change some agility gems for arm pen.

With my 2pc Tier 10 gear on right now and "best raid buffs" with your gem layout I get Combined:7938.06. With my gear as is with the best raid buffs and gem's the way they are now It's Combined:7917.04

Without 2pc Tier 10 gear using your gem layout and best raid buffs I get Combined: 7759.76.

Anytime I change the agility gems for arm pen the dps goes down.

Yes. ArP gains value exponentially, which means the gain is slow at lower amounts, and skyrockets as it gets close to the cap. The point to start gemming is where the exponential gain outpaces the linear gain of agi/AP. This is VERY dependent on the amount of passive ArP you have before regemming. If Chrizesu's hutner has more passive ArP than AdamSavage's then each point of ArP would be worth more to Chrizesu than to Adam, until he gets his passive up to an equal amount.

Also at some point you need to drop Arcane Shot except for emergencies, because it's not affected by ArP and an extra Steady would do more damage. That can also affect results if you're on the cusp but don't change the rotation.

I think Arm pen is over rated that or the female dwarf site isn't calculating it right. I added in 500 arm pen and then did it for agility. I got more of a dps gain out of the agility then I did with arm pen.

Femaledwarf's the most accurate calc I can find. I even read through the debug data. Problem is that it doesn't calc pet abilities efficiently.

BTW, my actual hunter sucks; I don't play her. I play my mage and druid. If I test a theory out, it's on a premade hunter. ><
I need to find a group who actually wants me to play my hunter. Everyone wants my druid because she's heals and tank.

AdamSavage wrote:I think Arm pen is over rated that or the female dwarf site isn't calculating it right. I added in 500 arm pen and then did it for agility. I got more of a dps gain out of the agility then I did with arm pen.

No, it's not over-rated but what it is is icing on the cake. What is over-rated with ArPen is the amount of attention paid to it.
But what you are missing is the acknowledgment of the point that has been made time and time again, that each point of ArPen is better the more of it you have - it scales exponentially. You do not have enough passive ArPen to make gemming for it a gain over Agility. Your ArPen according to your Armoury is 344. That is very low. If you gem for it, you will not see any gain. If you had ~800 ArPen, then you would gain by gemming for the stat. You do not want to rely on an ArPen proc as a basis for the stat, you want a static constant value.

I think Femaledwarf does tend to be overly kind to ArPen, but in the same way it is overly kind to Haste, it is because the programming assumes you are playing flawlessly in an environment where you never have to miss a shot, never move etc.

As for your DPS in general, the fact that you do not have 2pc T9 as Marksman is a significant factor. The value of the set bonus there cannot be over-stated. Unless you have 4pc T10 264s or higher, you absolutely want 2pc T9 as Marksman. If you want to improve your DPS, stop focusing on ArPen and look at the T9 set bonus.