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Sukurachi wrote:<--is a bit slow on lore, but...

1. what's this Karabor?
2. what does "we have Dalaran now" mean?

(slow on lore, and never really played an Alliance toon in 8 years, at least, not higher than level 20)

Karabor is Black Temple (i.e. the place you farm the Warglaives) before it got sullied.

The Kirin Tor is firmly in the Alliance camp now, and that includes Dalaran. It was actually heading towards Orgrimmar in 5.1, but the Devs couldn't insert it in 5.4 without causing lag/performance issues. But in Lore, it's an Alliance city no longer in Northrend.

I think what people are complaining about is that Alliance keeps losing things -in game- whereas Horde's losses are just sort of armwaved and never have any representation in game. So our losses seem more real because they actually, you know, exist. Go to Theramore, and there's a radioactive pit. Go to Stonard...and it's basically just Stonard like it's always been. The pit in Stormwind is still there. Any Deathwing-related damage to Org is all gone. Southshore? Still gone. Dalaran, still neutral. (Rhonin, still alive.... damn his hide...)

It's one thing to say 'yeah this thing happened in a book that probably 25% of the players actually read' (I don't read the books, myself) and quite another to say 'yeah this thing happened and look at the mess'.

Technically, my understanding is that the horde base in BL is also being lost... only it's by the leader defecting to the Iron Horde and taking her ogres with her. So it's not getting blown up but you'll get to shoot people in the face there. I think. I WOULD however like Blizzard to do something with bloody Surwich though. It's a fantastic Gilnean town with docks and everything and there's like... one small quest chain there. I don't even think there's any vendors. It's such a -waste-.

Nachtwulf wrote:I think what people are complaining about is that Alliance keeps losing things -in game- whereas Horde's losses are just sort of armwaved and never have any representation in game. So our losses seem more real because they actually, you know, exist. Go to Theramore, and there's a radioactive pit. Go to Stonard...and it's basically just Stonard like it's always been. The pit in Stormwind is still there. Any Deathwing-related damage to Org is all gone. Southshore? Still gone. Dalaran, still neutral. (Rhonin, still alive.... damn his hide...)

It's one thing to say 'yeah this thing happened in a book that probably 25% of the players actually read' (I don't read the books, myself) and quite another to say 'yeah this thing happened and look at the mess'.

Technically, my understanding is that the horde base in BL is also being lost... only it's by the leader defecting to the Iron Horde and taking her ogres with her. So it's not getting blown up but you'll get to shoot people in the face there. I think. I WOULD however like Blizzard to do something with bloody Surwich though. It's a fantastic Gilnean town with docks and everything and there's like... one small quest chain there. I don't even think there's any vendors. It's such a -waste-.

I was sad when we lost the Tauren camp in the Barrens to an Alliance raid back in Cata :/

Oh sure it wasnt "big" but I have always had fond feelings for it.

cowmuflage wrote:I was sad when we lost the Tauren camp in the Barrens to an Alliance raid back in Cata :/

Oh sure it wasnt "big" but I have always had fond feelings for it.

Camp Taurajo may not have been much, but for Horde players it was a sort of stepping stone, a pivotal moment in your levelling experience.

The emotional impact of the massacre at Camp Taurajo was strong.

And the sad thing is, the massacre at Taurajo wasn't even really the Alliance (as a military entity)'s fault. As I remember it was someone going off the chain without orders and doing things that weren't procedure, and a lot of bad miscommunication. Kind of like the 'Horde' bombing the shit out of a neutral Cenarion druid school. Only you don't even get the satisfaction of tossing the responsible party off a cliff.

Ah well.

Nachtwulf wrote:And the sad thing is, the massacre at Taurajo wasn't even really the Alliance (as a military entity)'s fault. As I remember it was someone going off the chain without orders and doing things that weren't procedure, and a lot of bad miscommunication. Kind of like the 'Horde' bombing the shit out of a neutral Cenarion druid school. Only you don't even get the satisfaction of tossing the responsible party off a cliff.

Ah well.

it's interesting to note, for myself, the first time I flew over Camp Taurajo I cried for an hour afterwards... and my hatred of all things Alliance really solidified and became a focus for everything I did in the game.

So, in effect, the game designers probably got the desired reaction from players who were invested in their faction.

previously, I didn't play my alliance toons much simply because I found the storylines a bit boring (the highest I got was 40-ish, so probably not high enough to get into anything really interesting, but still, until that point, a bit less "investing" for me).

after the Taurajo Massacre, I couldn't bear to even log on to my Alliance toons any more. I tried, and bile literally crept up my gorge.

Nachtwulf wrote:I think what people are complaining about is that Alliance keeps losing things -in game- whereas Horde's losses are just sort of armwaved and never have any representation in game. So our losses seem more real because they actually, you know, exist. Go to Theramore, and there's a radioactive pit. Go to Stonard...and it's basically just Stonard like it's always been. The pit in Stormwind is still there. Any Deathwing-related damage to Org is all gone. Southshore? Still gone. Dalaran, still neutral. (Rhonin, still alive.... damn his hide...)

Pretty much this. Alliance have loosing towns since god knows but the horde...oh you can lose this "camp" and we'll call it even stevens. Please. Let me play some tiny violins for you.

Southshore was a massive deal to me when we lost that...it was like a major quest hub. But nup gone. Theramore...how many died there? It was a really nice quest place too. As Nacht said Stormwind our capital is a friggin mess...the trolls get their island back but we still are missing Gnomer...the list goes on. So yeah some people will have their nickers in a twist when we lose yet another town/fp/questing hub and rightly so.

Camp Taurajo was a massive deal to me. I cared more about loosing that then I ever did Southshore.

That's okay. I was so pissed off about the cowardly obliteration of Theramore that I went and deleted all my orc alts afterward. I still can't play them.

Alliance loses huge, populated areas, with in many cases, innocent civilians being tortured for the amusement of their captors (koff koff Hillsbrad) and the Horde loses one small encampment. Big farking whoop, cry me a river.

Nachtwulf wrote:That's okay. I was so pissed off about the cowardly obliteration of Theramore that I went and deleted all my orc alts afterward. I still can't play them.

Alliance loses huge, populated areas, with in many cases, innocent civilians being tortured for the amusement of their captors (koff koff Hillsbrad) and the Horde loses one small encampment. Big farking whoop, cry me a river.

Yes let me bath in your salty tears. They keep me youthful ya know.

cowmuflage wrote:

Nachtwulf wrote:That's okay. I was so pissed off about the cowardly obliteration of Theramore that I went and deleted all my orc alts afterward. I still can't play them.

Alliance loses huge, populated areas, with in many cases, innocent civilians being tortured for the amusement of their captors (koff koff Hillsbrad) and the Horde loses one small encampment. Big farking whoop, cry me a river.

Yes let me bath in your salty tears. They keep me youthful ya know.

Oh i'm sorry I couldn't hear you bath over all the tiny violins i'm playing

Castile wrote:

cowmuflage wrote:

Nachtwulf wrote:That's okay. I was so pissed off about the cowardly obliteration of Theramore that I went and deleted all my orc alts afterward. I still can't play them.

Alliance loses huge, populated areas, with in many cases, innocent civilians being tortured for the amusement of their captors (koff koff Hillsbrad) and the Horde loses one small encampment. Big farking whoop, cry me a river.

Yes let me bath in your salty tears. They keep me youthful ya know.

Oh i'm sorry I couldn't hear you bath over all the tiny violins i'm playing

Well we all know that's the only music people in the Alliance can play after all

*shrug* None of my characters on either side are really invested in the factions. It's just a matter of which cities I can go into without getting shot.

This is an old wound but since the scab's been knocked off, let's take a look at comparisons:

Alliance gained:
Southern Barrens outposts (now arguably severed from their supply lines and doomed to eventual failure)
Dalaran (not represented ingame)
... I can't think of anything else.

Alliance lost:
Silverwind
The entirety of Azshara (not held strongly but def. originally nelf holdings)
Southshore and outlying areas
Theramore
Nethergarde (soon)
Feathermoon (albeit moved)
The kingdom of Gilneas
Nigel's Point in Desolace (if you're horde and do the quest to obliterate it but not represented in game)

Horde gained:
Azshara
Hillsbrad
Most of Ashenvale (including giant new port city near BFD) and several outposts
Strong footholds in Hinterlands
Footholds in Tanaris
Stronghold in Blasted Lands (see below)
Andorhal

Horde lost:
Taurajo
Stonard (not represented in game)
Foothold in blasted lands (may be lost to defection)

Now... I might be missing something and I'm not counting the loss of neutral areas but seriously. This is pretty darn lopsided no matter how you look at it.

I know we lost Kargath. Sure we got a new hub but then both sides got new places in Cata.

Also if you are going to count the Worgen one then the Goblin one counts too :/

cowmuflage wrote:
Well we all know that's the only music people in the Alliance can play after all

touché

Well Gilneas counts as 2 then cause it was destroyed by the Horde (using chemical warfare no less!) and not a volcano or w/e the goblin island went boom from

*In Helen Lovejoys voice* Won't someone think of the children!!

Except the goblin one isn't connected to the 'real world' in any way. Once you leave it, you can't go back.

Gilneas is basically a completely wasted zone full of plague goo. They missed a huge opportunity but oh no. Just let the Forsaken squat on it and forget it exists.

War isn't fair

This is the World of Warcraft

doesn't have to be even for Ally and Horde

/endthread

If anyone is upset -