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Palladiamorsdeus wrote:Or play a mage and learn how much it's both. Mage's rely heavily on being able to both get away quickly and on being able to stand still and cast at least a few spells. They also have the tools and utilities to help out greatly in this endeavor.

Your dps still goes up if you're standing still. You don't get THAT many instants.

Seems to me most classes benefit from standing still. When I kitty it up on my druid, my dps drops whenever I have to chase around after a mob that's being kited (or poorly tanked). When I'm on any ranged dps and have to move out of crap on the ground, my dps drops.

Whether it's due to talents, spells, or simply the inability of most players to focus 100% on their spells, cooldowns, and rotation while also dodging spikes/bile/clouds of I-don't-even-wanna-know-what-you-did-there-Grobbulus, movement decreases dps. Some classes definitely more than others, but there ya have it.

But Aspect of the Fox doesn't seem very different to me than that Shammy talent they announced (I forget the name, but it was back in the class previews) that would allow us to cast while moving. I'd wager we'll be seeing more fights with movement phases in Cata. Nice of them to give us a boost, if my prediction's right.

DPS goes down when you move because you're not attacking and you are doing zero damage per second which lowers your average. Now, if we only had nothing but instant cast attacks, this wouldn't be a problem.

FuzzyDolly wrote:DPS goes down when you move because you're not attacking and you are doing zero damage per second which lowers your average. Now, if we only had nothing but instant cast attacks, this wouldn't be a problem.

Well not entirely. I always use my instants when I have to move. On top of that, I always try to "stutter" my movement so that I can, for example, stand still long enough to get in an auto or multishot. Most classes do have instants they can toss out during movement phases. Most of them have long cooldowns though. My point in my previous post was simply that being able to cast DoTs during movement doesn't salvage our dps because movement means we can't focus 100% on our bars and DoT uptimes - so even DoT classes suffer during movement fights (though obviously not as much as, say, SV hunters who have to take a 6% damage cut on steady, ES, BA, and aimed and a 15% crit cut on KS right off the bat simply for not standing still).

In Cata, much of that will be remedied through the implementation of Aspect of the Fox, because our autoshots will keep firing. Auto is usually top damage for BM - I think it's not top for MM though, with steady taking that role, and I'm not sure about SV. Either way, it'll still boost our movement dps compared to now.

FuzzyDolly wrote:DPS goes down when you move because you're not attacking and you are doing zero damage per second which lowers your average. Now, if we only had nothing but instant cast attacks, this wouldn't be a problem.

The reason Hunter DPS drops when we move is because Auto Shot stops as does Steady Shot. Aspect of the Fox is designed to address both situations, allowing Auto Shot while moving along with Focus regen. The reason Hunters are one of the better mobile DPS classes is because we have a number of instants at our disposal, and we can time our movement to allow Auto Shots and even Steady Shots in conjunction with our instants.

Hunters should never stop attacking, even when moving, because we can attack and move. We'll be able to do it even better in Cataclysm.

Kalliope wrote:

Palladiamorsdeus wrote:Or play a mage and learn how much it's both. Mage's rely heavily on being able to both get away quickly and on being able to stand still and cast at least a few spells. They also have the tools and utilities to help out greatly in this endeavor.

Your dps still goes up if you're standing still. You don't get THAT many instants.

You completely missed the point. It isn't just about the instants, it's about being able to either stick some one in place to cast, or being able to move to safety to continue casting, as well as being able to fire off instants. And as far as that goes, while moving and in close proximity, fire alone has at least five instant casts, three of which provide AoE snares, one of which disorients the opponent. Compare this to the only two spells you'll be stopping to cast ((Fireball and scorch, only using pyroblast after a proc)) and you get the point. Do you do more damage while standing still? Pht, yeah, and you should. But CAN you deal damage while moving? Most definitely, and in PvP you have to learn TO do that, especially if you are going to play either of the mages two non-designated PvP trees.

Palladiamorsdeus wrote:

Kalliope wrote:

Palladiamorsdeus wrote:Or play a mage and learn how much it's both. Mage's rely heavily on being able to both get away quickly and on being able to stand still and cast at least a few spells. They also have the tools and utilities to help out greatly in this endeavor.

Your dps still goes up if you're standing still. You don't get THAT many instants.

You completely missed the point. It isn't just about the instants, it's about being able to either stick some one in place to cast, or being able to move to safety to continue casting, as well as being able to fire off instants. And as far as that goes, while moving and in close proximity, fire alone has at least five instant casts, three of which provide AoE snares, one of which disorients the opponent. Compare this to the only two spells you'll be stopping to cast ((Fireball and scorch, only using pyroblast after a proc)) and you get the point. Do you do more damage while standing still? Pht, yeah, and you should. But CAN you deal damage while moving? Most definitely, and in PvP you have to learn TO do that, especially if you are going to play either of the mages two non-designated PvP trees.

We're looking more at PvE than PvP. EVERYONE has to dps intelligently on the move in PvP.

PvP is very different because it's not scripted.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to be correct on a point, you can have it.

I'm trying to reserve judgment til all the builds are finished,but it worries me a bit.