WoW Petopia Community

Warlocks are in need of some serious buffs to their DPS, so I have no issue with their pets doing more DPS than Hunter pets as we tend to do more personal DPS than they do, spec dependent of course.

Warlock demons are enslaved minions to be used, abused and thrown away. Hunter pets are supposed to be allies, friends and share a bond with the Hunter, so it makes sense to me that we can rely on our pets for more than DPS and the new model suggests that.

As a pure DPS class, Warlock DPS is quite low and they are very often out performed by hybrids. Rare is the Warlock who tops raid meters, they are usually in the middle with the DPS Shaman. So they really need some love to make them a viable pure DPS class for more than the extremely skilled Warlock players.

Anansi wrote:As a pure DPS class, Warlock DPS is quite low and they are very often out performed by hybrids. Rare is the Warlock who tops raid meters, they are usually in the middle with the DPS Shaman. So they really need some love to make them a viable pure DPS class for more than the extremely skilled Warlock players.

Funny you should mention DPS shaman - so far the only class to out DPS me in pugs, with comparable gear, has been an enhancement shammy (still not sure how either - he didn't hit any of his caps and all of his stats were lower except for INT... suppose it might have been better rotations but doubt it)...

Worba wrote:

Anansi wrote:As a pure DPS class, Warlock DPS is quite low and they are very often out performed by hybrids. Rare is the Warlock who tops raid meters, they are usually in the middle with the DPS Shaman. So they really need some love to make them a viable pure DPS class for more than the extremely skilled Warlock players.

Funny you should mention DPS shaman - so far the only class to out DPS me in pugs, with comparable gear, has been an enhancement shammy (still not sure how either - he didn't hit any of his caps and all of his stats were lower except for INT)...

DPS shammies are so easy to beat it's laughable.

As a warlock, I usually don't have too much trouble topping the meters. It's awful in short battles, like trash or anything in a heroic, since everything dies before my DOTs can start tearing HP. All Warlocks have that limitation, but Affliction has it worse than others, since, well, it's obvious. I wouldn't want it any other way tough. I rock during raids, and pull my weight in anything else, and that's a good playstyle for me.

I liked the hybrid model they used back in vanilla. If you wanted more utility, you brought a hybrid, like maybe a druid. For easier fights, where you didn't need several healers, you could let your druid DPS a bit, and they would do a half-decent job at it. Your pallies could have several roles as well, but like all hybrids, they had one main role, and the others roles they weren't as good at. Now, it's just plain bad. A druid can do ANYTHING, same for pallies. Shammies are still at a decent level, they can DPS and heal, same for priests.

That said, I do enjoy being able to play my druid as a caster, I just think... Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Healing AND Tanking is a bit too much. Maybe make them healers and casters, and leave the other roles as slightly sub-optimal. Because being able to fill any roll in a group with a druid is just...

I think hunters need a Fear button to smash now ~ that would make things equal

Saturo wrote:DPS shammies are so easy to beat it's laughable.

While I wouldn't personally generalize to the extent of calling any class "laughable", it is true that I don't normally get much competition from them on the DPS meter (again just talking about comparable gear - I'm not gonna worry much about getting beaten by someone who's avg iLvl is 40 higher ), which is why this was such a notable occurence.

Hmm. I usually faceroll my way to massive dps in my habdashly geared enhance spec. I mean faceroll. I mean, "Oh yeah, fire nova, I should do that! ... Oh, how long has stormstrike been off cooldown?"

Not sure what the point of this is, the beta is still going and numbers are still in flux. We just got our first pet pass, more will come in the weeks ahead, and any discussion about numbers is somewhat wasted.

Well, I am talking about the actual game (and I believe Saturo is too, as far as I know she's not in the beta). But yes, we're definitely getting ahead of ourselves in the discussion in this thread.

Well, to return to the OP's original topic, I think it widely depends..
And no, I'm not talking about skill or gear (let's assume they are both equal).

What I am talking about is our pet control, choices and abilities.

Let's look at lock pets:
Felguard
Felhunter
Voidwalker
Succubus
Imp

That's 5 pets, and only one of them is cause for concern apparently (unless you find a horned demon woman swinging a whip while dressed in tight leather cause for concern, that is). 7 if count Infernal (which has no special attacks) and Doomguard (which requires 5 ppl to summon).

We have 5 different (or even identical, if we choose) pets. Plus, in addition to the pets special family abilities, we have pet talents (with several attack options, like the new Swoop), Kill Command, Beastial Wrath and Intimidation, AND a superior heal. Add the new "move to" command, and a pet with some extra speed talents and ranged attacks can theoretically kite.

Now tbh, I don't know that much about lock pets, especially in Cata, but I'm pretty sure that in a pet vs pet fight, it would at the very least be a close race.
Unless ofc the felguard has been buffed to the point of OP...

Anansi wrote:Warlock demons are enslaved minions to be used, abused and thrown away. Hunter pets are supposed to be allies, friends and share a bond with the Hunter, so it makes sense to me that we can rely on our pets for more than DPS and the new model suggests that.

That may be true of warlocks in lore, but I for one play my 'lock as having just as much of a bond with at least 1 of her demons as any decent Hunter would have with his/her pets.

The following is roleplaying info, not to be taken as canon:

Emielee, a Forsaken warlock, is a demonologist, and extremely proud of not only how she uses her own minions, but how much she has learned about demons in general. Through her research, she is convinced that her voidwalker, Throkmon, is not so much a demon as a shadow elemental, no different from the fire and earth ones shamans summon, or the water elementals of frost mages. Despite human propaganda on the "goodness of the Light" and all that, Shadow, and Light for that matter, are just 2 extra elements, which have either been placed above Earth, Fire, Wind and Water (and their deviants, i.e. lava) in the case of Light, or lowered to the point of being considered "evil" in the case of Shadow.

As Throkmon, and voidwalkers in general, are, in her opinion, shadow elementals, not demons in the sense that the followers of the Burning Legion are, they are not "evil", in her educated opinion. Emielee is not deluded into giving all her minions the benefit of the doubt; she trusts her imp, succubus and felguard about as much as anyone can trust a true demon (which is not at all), and she sees her felhunter as more of a dog-type creature than anything with real malicious intent, and treats it accordingly. However, when comes to Throkmon, she trusts it (as elementals, voidwalkers have no gender), more than she does most "sentient" beings. Throkmon is not just a demon to be used, she considers the voidwalker her one true friend, the only being she can really depend upon and trust, and being a Forsaken, trust does not come easily to her. Emielee's and Throkmon's is a bond of friendship that other warlocks cannot comprehend -- the closest comparison is the bond that hunters have with their animal companions.


Anyway, the point is that just rolling a warlock doesn't mean your character has to be a complete jerk as far as "pet care" is concerned. Just like there are hunters out there that (unfortuately) see their pets as just another weapon, there can be warlocks that see their demons as companions and friends. That's the fun thing about rpgs -- some rules are meant to be broken.

Cerah wrote:

Anansi wrote:Warlock demons are enslaved minions to be used, abused and thrown away. Hunter pets are supposed to be allies, friends and share a bond with the Hunter, so it makes sense to me that we can rely on our pets for more than DPS and the new model suggests that.

That may be true of warlocks in lore, but I for one play my 'lock as having just as much of a bond with at least 1 of her demons as any decent Hunter would have with his/her pets.

The following is roleplaying info, not to be taken as canon:

Emielee, a Forsaken warlock, is a demonologist, and extremely proud of not only how she uses her own minions, but how much she has learned about demons in general. Through her research, she is convinced that her voidwalker, Throkmon, is not so much a demon as a shadow elemental, no different from the fire and earth ones shamans summon, or the water elementals of frost mages. Despite human propaganda on the "goodness of the Light" and all that, Shadow, and Light for that matter, are just 2 extra elements, which have either been placed above Earth, Fire, Wind and Water (and their deviants, i.e. lava) in the case of Light, or lowered to the point of being considered "evil" in the case of Shadow.

As Throkmon, and voidwalkers in general, are, in her opinion, shadow elementals, not demons in the sense that the followers of the Burning Legion are, they are not "evil", in her educated opinion. Emielee is not deluded into giving all her minions the benefit of the doubt; she trusts her imp, succubus and felguard about as much as anyone can trust a true demon (which is not at all), and she sees her felhunter as more of a dog-type creature than anything with real malicious intent, and treats it accordingly. However, when comes to Throkmon, she trusts it (as elementals, voidwalkers have no gender), more than she does most "sentient" beings. Throkmon is not just a demon to be used, she considers the voidwalker her one true friend, the only being she can really depend upon and trust, and being a Forsaken, trust does not come easily to her. Emielee's and Throkmon's is a bond of friendship that other warlocks cannot comprehend -- the closest comparison is the bond that hunters have with their animal companions.


Anyway, the point is that just rolling a warlock doesn't mean your character has to be a complete jerk as far as "pet care" is concerned. Just like there are hunters out there that (unfortuately) see their pets as just another weapon, there can be warlocks that see their demons as companions and friends. That's the fun thing about rpgs -- some rules are meant to be broken.

I like your story. That sounds really neat. :3

Unfortunately, i'm coming across quite a few rpers that would shun you in a heartbeat if you go against lore or have your character be close to a lore character in anyway, which too me is being way too strict in a game where you interact with lore characters all the time.

Not really going against lore there. She does say "in her educated opinion". ^^

Curumor wrote:That's 5 pets, and only one of them is cause for concern apparently (unless you find a horned demon woman swinging a whip while dressed in tight leather cause for concern, that is). 7 if count Infernal (which has no special attacks) and Doomguard (which requires 5 ppl to summon).

We have 5 different (or even identical, if we choose) pets. Plus, in addition to the pets special family abilities, we have pet talents (with several attack options, like the new Swoop), Kill Command, Beastial Wrath and Intimidation, AND a superior heal. Add the new "move to" command, and a pet with some extra speed talents and ranged attacks can theoretically kite.

Now tbh, I don't know that much about lock pets, especially in Cata, but I'm pretty sure that in a pet vs pet fight, it would at the very least be a close race.
Unless ofc the felguard has been buffed to the point of OP...

Thought the doomguard was summoned by Curse of Doom now? Of course, it took a min for that to happen, but I do think it summons a doomguard when the target dies by curse of doom.

MaximumOverdrive wrote:
Thought the doomguard was summoned by Curse of Doom now? Of course, it took a min for that to happen, but I do think it summons a doomguard when the target dies by curse of doom.

Aye, but that requires the lock to actually kill something first (with CoD), then enslave the Doomguard.
It'd be kind of like getting all possible buffs for your pet before the fight, which kind of ruins the point.

Just tossing it in here, but Doomguards are now summoned like Infernals, and stick around for the same amount of time. No need for a five man group. Also, Succubus's DPS has been buffed, Felguards have gotten two new abilities to the tune of Felstorm ((Blade storm for Felguards)) and Axetoss. So yes, Felguards have been buffed quite a bit. As I stated before, in a one on one fight against a hunter pet and a felguard or maybe even a succubus now, the demonology pet will probably win. In a one on one demo vs BM, it'll be a much closer fight.

regardless of whatever bond the hunter might have with his pet in comparison to warlock's enslaving of the demon, the hunter's pet is still an animal while the warlock's pet is a Demon.

So it's perfectly acceptable for their pets to have higher damage or win in a pet vs pet fight. The way the class works and their pets are handled feels very different which is plenty for me.

Imagine a giant demon with a huge axe coming up from hell and fighting vs. a dog in real life. Doesn't matter how well the dog is trained... it's a demon. It can probably shoot meteors from it's eyes.


now in terms of in game DPS... of course all dps classes should end up being equal-ish, but only considering the total of both character and his pet. Also doomguard and infernal are now summoned the same way. it's like a 5 min. cooldown type of thing where you get a boost of dps for 45 secs by calling one or the other. both share the same cooldown it seems.