WoW Petopia Community

This thread is a thing of beauty

a few notes:

Beetles no longer have venom web spray, I think (?) as that was from when they were Silithid clones

Survival hunters also give the melee (which is also ranged physical) haste buff, and they don't have replenishment any more

Mages also get the bloodlust/heroism buff

Is the crab pin a stun, or is it a root? (i.e. can the target act but not move?)

There was some suggestion, based on Wowhead, that Foxes and maybe wolves were now Cunning, but as nobody's piped up about that from actual Beta investigation it seems likely to be a Wowhead error.

The Insect Man wrote:This thread is a thing of beauty

a few notes:

Beetles no longer have venom web spray, I think (?) as that was from when they were Silithid clones

Survival hunters also give the melee (which is also ranged physical) haste buff, and they don't have replenishment any more

Mages also get the bloodlust/heroism buff

Is the crab pin a stun, or is it a root? (i.e. can the target act but not move?)

There was some suggestion, based on Wowhead, that Foxes and maybe wolves were now Cunning, but as nobody's piped up about that from actual Beta investigation it seems likely to be a Wowhead error.

Thank you very much! Pin is indeed a root (currently; crabs haven't officially been updated). I also had the wrong talent listed for Ret Paladin's replenishment. From my own experience, on the 4.0 PTR at least, I can say that wolves are still Ferocity pets.

Updates forthcoming! Please keep giving me corrections and additions!

Any idea what the beetle's new normal ability is?

That chart is breathtakingly organized! Love it!

Now for the additions/changes:

Scatter Shot is also a disorient, though its duration is MUCH shorter than the other options.

Intimidation qualifies as a stun, though again, shorter duration. Warlocks get shadowfury for an AoE stun.

Druids get Nature's Grasp for another root, but it's a passive trigger, so it's only really useful on fights like faction champs. Elemental shammies get a root on their earthbind, making it more than just a snare. Technically, hunters with entrapment get a similar sort of root out of their snare, but again, the duration is MUCH shorter than the others.

Pin is actually a root, not a stun, unless that's been changed.

Shockwave is a cone stun rather than a silence/interrupt (though it ends up usually having the same effect).

Rogues have garrote as a silence effect, but since it's just an opener, it's not as useful. Prot paladins get a silence on their avenger's shield, unless that's been changed.

This is just based off of current abilities, rather than changes/additions from beta, and just off the top of my head. Hope this helps!

ok this is what I meant, like tenacity had like +10%HP, 10% armor and like 5% damage or w/e.. those are picked out of my head so I have no idea if they are current or what but I remem seeing a post about them a few months ago.

You're forgetting Spirit Beast's cool Spirit Mend (healing) ability! Don't forget to add that 1 to at least 1 of your charts. :--P. It's an easily overlooked pet healing ability by some players.

oh and its good, on the ptr mine is hitting me for 4700 and ticking for 2700, I saw 6700+ hits on the pet.. which was odd because I don't think I have any +healing talents on her besides 1 point in spirit bond.

To help Voodoou out. I think he or she means the stat scales. like currently they are all at 5% across the board, but before equalization it was like 10, 0, 5. and 5,5,5. and 0, 5, 10. or something like that (Armor, Health, Damage. )

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't hunters get Widow Venom as a 'Healing Debuff' too? With a 30 second duration and Monstrous Bite's duration at 8 seconds. Unless I'm reading it all wrong, that'd make Monstrous Bite nearly useless.

Also, I guess it doesn't make Devilsaurs grow anymore. :/

Gimlion wrote:To help Voodoou out. I think he or she means the stat scales. like currently they are all at 5% across the board, but before equalization it was like 10, 0, 5. and 5,5,5. and 0, 5, 10. or something like that (Armor, Health, Damage. )

yes that is what I mean >.< sry I don't always explain myself that well =P

Voodoou wrote:ok this is what I meant, like tenacity had like +10%HP, 10% armor and like 5% damage or w/e.. those are picked out of my head so I have no idea if they are current or what but I remem seeing a post about them a few months ago.

Gimlion wrote:To help Voodoou out. I think he or she means the stat scales. like currently they are all at 5% across the board, but before equalization it was like 10, 0, 5. and 5,5,5. and 0, 5, 10. or something like that (Armor, Health, Damage.)

You'll have to forgive me, but I still have no clue what either of you are talking about. What are these even percentages of? Percentages of the hunter's stats transferring to the pets? I had no idea those were different for the three pet specs. I'll take your word for it, both that they were different before and that they are now equal. Either way, it's not something that I think would be appropriate to include here.

Protego wrote:You're forgetting Spirit Beast's cool Spirit Mend (healing) ability! Don't forget to add that 1 to at least 1 of your charts. :--P. It's an easily overlooked pet healing ability by some players.

Spirit Beasts' healing ability is noted on the first spreadsheet. I didn't include it in the raiding flowchart or on raiding buffs sheet because I don't see it as an ability that will be utilized in raids. Raids have healers for that sort of thing.

Xota wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't hunters get Widow Venom as a 'Healing Debuff' too? With a 30 second duration and Monstrous Bite's duration at 8 seconds. Unless I'm reading it all wrong, that'd make Monstrous Bite nearly useless.

I have mixed information on Widow Venom. Some sources say it was removed and Monstrous Bite was its replacement, and some sources say it's still in. I have no Beta access, so I cannot check for myself.

----------------------------

Anyways... big update for the raid buff chart will come tomorrow night. See you all then. Keep sending me additions and corrections, please!

Widow Venom is alive and well on the PTR, so I assume it's still in on beta too.

Spirit healing does deserve a mention as a raiding buff, since it's not a bad thing for progression when the solution is to throw more healers at a fight.

Kalliope wrote:Spirit healing does deserve a mention as a raiding buff, since it's not a bad thing for progression when the solution is to throw more healers at a fight.

I'm still going to have to disagree. During progression when the solution is to "throw more healers at a fight," that's what people will do: put more healers in the raid. If a fight is so healer intensive that it requires another source of healing, the one heal from a Spirit Beast every once in a while isn't going to push a raid over the edge. Unless you have the God-like APM of a pro Starcraft player or something, and can perform your hunter dps rotation flawlessly while micromanaging your pet's heal ability with mouseover macros on your raid frames, no raid leader is ever going to think the solution to "we need another healer" is "have the hunter do it." It will always be a better option to just have someone respec or bring another healer.

Don't get me wrong, I like the ability and I think it has plenty of use in 5mans and especially while soloing. I'm not trying to crush anyone's dreams of being a healing hunter, but when talking about raiding (which is what the second and third of my charts are for), I just don't think Spirit Heal has a place. I left it off the flowchart for the same reason I left Bears off. You will never need to bring a Bear to a raid because every raid will have tanks, and you will never need to bring a Spirit Beast because every raid will have healers. Need being the operative word; I think plenty of Spirit Beasts will see the inside of raids where all the important buffs are already being covered.

Regardless, I will add it to the raid buffs chart, if only just to highlight the fact that the Spirit Beast's singular healing ability will never be able to match up to an entire tree's worth of healing talents and spells in a raiding environment. Should be updated on the front page.



In other news... I'm continuing to work on the PvPlike abilities. There's just so many out there, I'm positive there's more we haven't thought of yet, but here's how it looks currently:

(Image moved to Page 1)

Please, give me additions and corrections!

BTW, I know I have a lot of graphics here. It's getting to be overwhelming. The ultimate goal is to include all of these things in one spreadsheet, or on several worksheets of the same spreadsheet file. If anyone has any good ideas about spreadsheet uploading, I'd love to hear them, since I think all of this info would be way more valuable as an edit-able file rather than just static images.

Where Spirit Beasts may come in - IF you happen to be in a 25-player serious guild - is in the last category of "prettiest pet". We don't know whether getting one of the new AOE abilities will be worth the tradeoff in lost pet DPS against a boss. Probably you wouldn't want to use a cunning pet or a tenacity pet when fighting a boss.

Zee the only reason why I think it is appropriate here is that IF they are still different which the stat bonuses should be for the three trees, then that means Ferocity should still be the best damage.. but the damage abilities are one in Tenacity and one in Cunning. Anywho it would be work in to which would be better.

Boomkins have new interrupt spell called Solar Beam

and thats all from me:>

Adieu wrote:Boomkins have new interrupt spell called Solar Beam

and thats all from me:>

*begins to tame a boomkin*
Creature not tameable.

.... D'OH


Oh yeah and Malazee, you are doing an AMAZING job. Keep up the good work!

lovcat wrote:

Adieu wrote:Boomkins have new interrupt spell called Solar Beam

and thats all from me:>

*begins to tame a boomkin*
Creature not tameable.

.... D'OH

just wanted to point that Malazee missed that spell in PvPish abilities tab. Wanted to be The Smart Guy and you ruined it ;(

And really great job Malazee

I was under the impression that if left on autocast, the SB's heal would "smart heal" and go on an already low raid member. If that's not the case, then you're right. Thanks for including it regardless! ^_^

This chart is pretty amazing, and more abilities are coming to mind as I'm staring at it.

Seduce isn't technically a stun; it's a magical charm effect. It can be broken by damage and reapplied if there's no DoT. (It's friggin' OP, is what it is, sigh.) Sorry for making this more complicated. -_- It's comparable to priest Mind Control, except with no cast time.

Mages also get frost nova (and frost mages get a pet with it as well....AND another when their ice barrier breaks) for a root.

There should technically be a category for snares as well. >_< While technically a snare, the DK chains of ice ability initially slows a target by 95% and it was invaluable on certain fights, like Saurfang or Lich King....which means other snares should be listed too. :/

zedxrgal wrote:I love the charts and flowsheets!

I'm not sure why but I found it kind of lame that Blizz just re badged Prowl as spirit walk just because it's a spirit beast. It's the same thing.

WINDOW DRESSING!

Plus it sort of "allows" Skoll and Arcturis to....not be cats. >_>