WoW Petopia Community

swordoath wrote:

Worba wrote:Most telling is the lack of any real digestive area - the parts just kind of twist together in this spindly little knot that doesn't look like it would store let alone process food.

Arthropods have little in the way of a dedicated digestive system, so the shape of a ravager's body doesn't really strike me as impossible. For example, take a look at these pictures of a spider, and a crayfish. Both of these creatures have large abdomens, but neither one is designed with any kind of food storage or digestion in mind; the actual digestive tract is very small and underdeveloped, with only basic stomach space and a primitive intestine.

Ravagers have a small abdomen that folds forward under their legs, but a relatively large thorax in comparison to living arthropods. By this token, a ravager likely has proportionally similar internal organs and would not have any more trouble digesting food than any other carnivorous arthropod.

Oh how I <3 entomologist geeks

When I was younger, I dreamed of being an entomologist... until my mother found how many bugs I really had hidden in my room... I felt like terrible when I came home from school and seen what she had done, never again... But now thinking about it, I dont know how safe it really was to have that many spiders and creepy crawlies under ones bed.

Probably highly subjective opinion, but to me the ravagers are the most ill tempered and snappish of all the beasts, worse so than crocolisks. They seem to have a one-track mind of tear-rend-bite-feed and not much interest in anything else. I would imagine they would definitely be warm blooded given their bounciness (though I'd want to avoid having my hand on it to check for any length of time out of concern it might get chewed off!).

...
Aaand by writing that down I just realized what I must name my ravager. Thank you!

Spiritbinder wrote:Oh how I <3 entomologist geeks

When I was younger, I dreamed of being an entomologist... until my mother found how many bugs I really had hidden in my room... I felt like terrible when I came home from school and seen what she had done, never again... But now thinking about it, I dont know how safe it really was to have that many spiders and creepy crawlies under ones bed.

I'm not really an entomology geek, I'm just a geek in general. I like to learn, so I try to learn a little bit about everything. That said, I also really like to use what I know when it adds to a given discussion, so I end up looking like a bit of a know-it-all.

Little known fact, ravagers are actually mechanical constructs and predecessors to droideka.




You know it's true. Blood elves in space... death star.... draenei jedi's.....

ForestTroll wrote:Little known fact, ravagers are actually mechanical constructs and predecessors to droideka.
You know it's true. Blood elves in space... death star.... draenei jedi's.....

Bwahahahaha,

*Insert Lich King Voice*

LK:
Leeroy.... I AM! your father!...

Leeroy:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOY JEEEENKIIIINS!!!

I do have to say those simplified pics of the arthropod and spider digestive system just does not do it justice.
It is much, much more complex and interesting than those pictures would imply.

Spiders for instance use a combination of mechanically pulverization by dentate gnathobases (mouth parts) while at the same time using digestive fluids to start digestion before it is even ingested. This reduces the prey to (aside from the harder parts) a liquid like soup that the spider then can suck up. So before it is even ingested the food is broken down a great deal.
The have a foregut, a midgut and a hindgut which are regionally specialized and really quite complex.

Really, the picture really does it no justice at all.

On the other hand, Crustaceans also have a foregut, a midgut and a hindgut. These is also very interesting and quite a bit different than the spiders digestive system. (For instance the stomach has special teeth (heavily sclerotized teeth) and muscles that are used to grind up their food.)
yes, special teeth to chew up food while inside its stomach

Just remember that being larger does not mean "more complex," nor more advanced.

Ravagers are quite a bit different than anything that we have here in our world, and who even knows what kind of digestive system they have.
They could have a very efficient system with strong digestive enzymes to break down their food. Who really knows?

Really it is WoW, with magical swords and talking mushrooms. To try to equate it with the real world will only give you a headache.

Hehe, I agree that it's impossible to equate a fictional alien creature with a real world counterpart, however in the interest of creating believable and realistic emotes/behaviours for the species in game it doesn't hurt to draw on a few possible similarities in order to base a Ravager off of. Teigan's just trying to get a feel for them and try to breathe some life into them through the Pet Emote addon, so I'm sure the discussion is helping a great deal. ^^

Yes, indeed. This is fascinating, guys! Bravo!

Turgus wrote:I do have to say those simplified pics of the arthropod and spider digestive system just does not do it justice.
It is much, much more complex and interesting than those pictures would imply. ...

Absolutely. I never really meant that they were exact representations. I was more-or-less simply using them as reference points in terms of possible physical size. Short of Blizzard saying so themselves, I would imagine that there is more than enough room for a working digestive system of some kind.

Ravagers are, of course, a completely different thing than a living arthropod. I'm comparing them to those types of animals since that's what they most remind me of. Really, I suppose they're more similar to other fictional creatures -- Geiger's Alien, the Zerg from Starcraft or the Tyranids of Warhammer fame. Interestingly, though, each of those creaturs has been likened to insects in their respected lore; each are even referred to as "bugs." This is mainly because the human mind likes to equate things.

Thanks to you guys, I've fallen in love with my ravager...;3

I mistook the meaning of your post swordoath, so my bad.

Behavior is something you can just have fun with, there are so many examples in nature to draw from.

When I look at all those spines on the Ravagers I imagine that they would make a nasty sound when they were rattled.
Maybe something like a rattlesnake but far worse in intimidation value.

A loud hissing sound similar to the Aliens from... Aliens... lol
Maybe a bit of rapping those nasty legs against the ground.

The more I look at the ravager the more I think of how it probably would act like how a feral cat would. Hissing and trying to look larger and more aggressive than it actually is. Attacking by pouncing on its prey, slashing and impaling it with its nasty looking legs before finishing it off with its horrible looking teeth.

Of course it is all open to interpretation, and I think you should definitely have fun with it.

Sooo, two pages saying how awesome Ravagers are?

I can't wait until I'm 80 and my Ravager(s) are Max Level and huge! (Tauren Hunters just aren't great for judging pet sizes...)

swordoath wrote:

Worba wrote:Most telling is the lack of any real digestive area - the parts just kind of twist together in this spindly little knot that doesn't look like it would store let alone process food.

Arthropods have little in the way of a dedicated digestive system, so the shape of a ravager's body doesn't really strike me as impossible. For example, take a look at these pictures of a spider, and a crayfish. Both of these creatures have large abdomens, but neither one is designed with any kind of food storage or digestion in mind; the actual digestive tract is very small and underdeveloped, with only basic stomach space and a primitive intestine.

When I look at the spider in your example it seems to clearly show the "Digestive Gland" as being rather large, extending from the thorax down all the way through the abdomen (and accounting for a good portion of the abdomen's large size); whereas if we swing back to the ravager, it hardly has an abdomen at all - most of what it does have at the center is a thick chitin codpiece...

And speaking of intestine, this needs to be close to the ... exit point, in reasonably large volume, to function properly; if it was piled up high in the thorax the creature would have all sorts of problems with food processing.

But again - the creature comes from an entirely different plane of existence where all things trace their origin back to magical nether (or at least have a very intimate relationship with it), so as I said earlier, it doesn't need to comply with terrestrial norms (fortunately!)

Here is a quick sketch of what a ravagers digestive system "could" look like.
This of course is a very simple digestive system, but it could work for the size of the creature.

There would be various glands producing digestive enzymes for both the crop and stomach and in the intestine there would be folding to maximize surface area.

Just remember that digestive systems don't have to be long and complex to be effective.

Turgus wrote:Here is a quick sketch of what a ravagers digestive system "could" look like.
This of course is a very simple digestive system, but it could work for the size of the creature.

There would be various glands producing digestive enzymes for both the crop and stomach and in the intestine there would be folding to maximize surface area.

Just remember that digestive systems don't have to be long and complex to be effective.

Not saying you can't squeeze (some) intestines in there, just that having minimal (lower) intestines is suboptimal; another drawback to putting most of the internals in the thorax in this case is that it would either have a tiny appetite or else (like a snake) spend long periods digesting after a meal, because any major accumulation of food matter in the thorax would bloat up the body part that it uses for hunting and defense - on organisms with viable body structures*, the neck and head normally are at least largely unaffected by a full belly since the food storage/processing happens elsewhere, but in this case it would be like having your arms swell up every time you ate (see how it attacks in game e.g. entire thorax and head whip forward to bring the jaws to bear esp on targets who are low to the ground**).

Trying to make the ravager viable sans magic is like saying a mantis could be viable without its huge abdomen.

*I'm not saying snakes are at all non-viable, just that their dormant/bloated digestive phase just seems too ... mundane for ravagers... just can't picture them waddling around like beachballs with legs somehow...

**Which brings up another problem - seems rather inconvenient for the ravager to have a big chitin spike sticking right up into the place its soft belly would come down on every time it lunges forward to bite...

They.... Do..... Backflips! Recently tamed one myself and just wow

Torleth wrote:They.... Do..... Backflips! Recently tamed one myself and just wow

Wait, what?!?! Since when?!?

Antares wrote:

Torleth wrote:They.... Do..... Backflips! Recently tamed one myself and just wow

Wait, what?!?! Since when?!?

Since always. It's their special attack animation.

Worba said:
Not saying you can't squeeze (some) intestines in there, just that having minimal (lower) intestines is suboptimal; another drawback to putting most of the internals in the thorax in this case is that it would either have a tiny appetite or else (like a snake) spend long periods digesting after a meal, because any major accumulation of food matter in the thorax would bloat up the body part that it uses for hunting and defense - on organisms with viable body structures*, the neck and head normally are at least largely unaffected by a full belly since the food storage/processing happens elsewhere, but in this case it would be like having your arms swell up every time you ate (see how it attacks in game e.g. entire thorax and head whip forward to bring the jaws to bear esp on targets who are low to the ground**).

Maybe their "simple" gut is able to process food faster than you can imagine.
Don't forget that human digestion is not the most efficient nor fastest out there.
We are sloths in the digestive race. (This has a bit to do with the fact that we digest a wide range of foods)
Remember just because you can't imagine that it can happen doesn't mean it can't.
(Logical Fallacy: Argument from Personal Incredulity)

I write this because for some reason you seem to be unable to get around the "size" factor with the digestive system.

Size is an important factor in many things, but not necessarily in a digestive system.
Especially in the digestive system of a carnivore where they don't need to break down everything to incorporate it into its own tissue.

Seriously, it is not that hard (for me) to see how even in the real world a ravager might come about.
You just have to have the right selective pressures, and the organism just has to be able to adapt fast enough to not go extinct.

Just remember it IS a creature from WoW, so who knows what kind of selective pressures it has undergone, or effects that the environment has had on its evolution.

Instead of making this so serious about what IS or IS NOT possible, especially when a creature like the ravager IS possible, lets have more fun with it.
Since it DOES exist in the game try to imagine why it is the way it is.

Thanks.