WoW Petopia Community

Cerah wrote:I have to disagree with the idea that Sylvanus is a tyrant-in-the-making because of her treatment of new Forsaken characters, as of 4.0.3a.

When you first arise as a new Forsaken, the first quests out in Deathknell make it quite clear that the newly undead are given a choice, to either become part of the Forsaken or not. Nobody is forced into it. Another starter quest has you talk to other new Undead, and to try to convince them to join Sylvanus' cause. One joins right away. Another, a former Scarlet, runs off into the woods, and only when he attacks Deathknell with his followers are you told that you must "regretably" put him down. A third, a daughter of a Scarlet officer, runs off on her own. As far as I know, you don't see her again after the Tirstfal glades. Nobody is forced to follow the Banshee Queen, but as an Undead, it's the most logical choice.

In Silverpine, while helping the Forsaken war effort against the Worgen, Sylvanus specifically requests that you, a noob, stand beside her when she demonstrates the Val'kyr's abilities to Garrosh. After, she rides with you to the Sepulcher, telling you the story of the Forsaken personally. She's treating your character so well, taking the time to talk with you, to explain your mission personally, when you were still lying in the dirt days before. Is that the actions of a tyrant? I haven't rolled a new Orc yet, but I seriously doubt that Hellscream is so accomindating to new recruits.

Arthas was a child, playing at being an adult, doing whatever was expected of him, when the only thing he really wanted for himself was to have his horse back. After reading Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, I honestly think that the only thing Arthas ever really loved was Invincible. He was scared shitless of becoming king, of marrying Jaina and having kids of his own -- in short, of growing up. He much prefered going off to kill undead, because slaughtering things, undead or in danger (but in most examples, not yet) of becoming undead, because killing things is much easier than dealing with the living, especially if he could justify it by saying it was "for my people". Arthas was just the kind of person Frostmourne was waiting for.

Sylvanus, in contrast, was, in life, already in a position of high responsiblility. She was Ranger-General of Quel'thalas, in charge of her people's military forces, with hundreds of elves under her and the responsibility of safeguarding her kingdom. She was the opposite of Arthas, someone who did not and would never shrink from her duties. Perhaps that's what pissed him off so badly about her -- he couldn't stand her because she was the hero he could never be, for all his playing Paladin dress up. So after slaughtering her people, he denied her peace in death.

Sylvanus was too strong-willed for even the Lich King's favourite death knight and successor to control, however, and when she had her chance for freedom, she took it, but she did not take it alone. When other scourge regained their free will, she did not abandon them, like almost anyone else would have. There was always the chance that Silvermoon would have welcomed her back, even in undeath, she could have gone home. But for the formerly human undead, whose kingdom was destroyed and whose surviving human families and friends saw them as monsters, there was no chance at that, and Sylvanus did not just leave them to their fates. Instead, she took Undercity away from Arthas' forces, she made a homeland for the people of Lorderan, who had just as much claim to the land in undeath as they did in life, no matter what the Alliance thinks. She gave the Forsaken a home, a purpose, and hope for the future. In short, she did the same for her people as Thrall did for the Orcs, as Cairne did for the Tauren, and Vol'jin for the Darkspear Trolls.

She is no little kid, mad at the world for imaginary unjustices, and throwing one hell of a temper tantram, as Arthas did. Sylvanus is exactly what a leader should be -- an unwaivering advocate for her people. If that makes her evil, then every other faction leader is evil as well.

Warfish wrote:Best thing that could happen:

-Forsaken go Truly Bad, Become Seperate (Playable) Faction.

-Horde Recruit the Walrus-men. I love to roll me a Walrus-man (and yes, I know what they're called, I just like the idea of Walrus-men).

Three Factions, Always at War, the Undead out of the Horde, man that would be grand.

And yes, before the flames, I know that no one here would likely share my enthusiasm for this idea.

Cerah wrote:I have to disagree with the idea that Sylvanus is a tyrant-in-the-making because of her treatment of new Forsaken characters, as of 4.0.3a.

When you first arise as a new Forsaken, the first quests out in Deathknell make it quite clear that the newly undead are given a choice, to either become part of the Forsaken or not. Nobody is forced into it. Another starter quest has you talk to other new Undead, and to try to convince them to join Sylvanus' cause. One joins right away. Another, a former Scarlet, runs off into the woods, and only when he attacks Deathknell with his followers are you told that you must "regretably" put him down. A third, a daughter of a Scarlet officer, runs off on her own. As far as I know, you don't see her again after the Tirstfal glades. Nobody is forced to follow the Banshee Queen, but as an Undead, it's the most logical choice.

In Silverpine, while helping the Forsaken war effort against the Worgen, Sylvanus specifically requests that you, a noob, stand beside her when she demonstrates the Val'kyr's abilities to Garrosh. After, she rides with you to the Sepulcher, telling you the story of the Forsaken personally. She's treating your character so well, taking the time to talk with you, to explain your mission personally, when you were still lying in the dirt days before. Is that the actions of a tyrant? I haven't rolled a new Orc yet, but I seriously doubt that Hellscream is so accomindating to new recruits.

Arthas was a child, playing at being an adult, doing whatever was expected of him, when the only thing he really wanted for himself was to have his horse back. After reading Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, I honestly think that the only thing Arthas ever really loved was Invincible. He was scared shitless of becoming king, of marrying Jaina and having kids of his own -- in short, of growing up. He much prefered going off to kill undead, because slaughtering things, undead or in danger (but in most examples, not yet) of becoming undead, because killing things is much easier than dealing with the living, especially if he could justify it by saying it was "for my people". Arthas was just the kind of person Frostmourne was waiting for.

Sylvanus, in contrast, was, in life, already in a position of high responsiblility. She was Ranger-General of Quel'thalas, in charge of her people's military forces, with hundreds of elves under her and the responsibility of safeguarding her kingdom. She was the opposite of Arthas, someone who did not and would never shrink from her duties. Perhaps that's what pissed him off so badly about her -- he couldn't stand her because she was the hero he could never be, for all his playing Paladin dress up. So after slaughtering her people, he denied her peace in death.

Sylvanus was too strong-willed for even the Lich King's favourite death knight and successor to control, however, and when she had her chance for freedom, she took it, but she did not take it alone. When other scourge regained their free will, she did not abandon them, like almost anyone else would have. There was always the chance that Silvermoon would have welcomed her back, even in undeath, she could have gone home. But for the formerly human undead, whose kingdom was destroyed and whose surviving human families and friends saw them as monsters, there was no chance at that, and Sylvanus did not just leave them to their fates. Instead, she took Undercity away from Arthas' forces, she made a homeland for the people of Lorderan, who had just as much claim to the land in undeath as they did in life, no matter what the Alliance thinks. She gave the Forsaken a home, a purpose, and hope for the future. In short, she did the same for her people as Thrall did for the Orcs, as Cairne did for the Tauren, and Vol'jin for the Darkspear Trolls.

She is no little kid, mad at the world for imaginary unjustices, and throwing one hell of a temper tantram, as Arthas did. Sylvanus is exactly what a leader should be -- an unwaivering advocate for her people. If that makes her evil, then every other faction leader is evil as well.

Mustafah wrote:I Do prefer Garrosh, he is young and not expirienced, and he does mistakes.

Taluwen wrote:Royi....a father needs to mourn and get a chance to bury his son.....

Royi wrote:

Taluwen wrote:Royi....a father needs to mourn and get a chance to bury his son.....

is that what he's doing? If so I'm totally cool with that, take your time Mr. Saurfang. I don't know the timeframe, I figured the shattering was maybe 1 year or so after the LK defeat.

Saturo wrote:Sonnie, you're here because my psychic powers commanded you to.

I doubt she'll do much to Koltira and Thassarian's bond. She might break Koltira down, making him essentially a mindless killing machine, but I'm sure Thassarian's would beat some sense into him if they were pitted against each other.

Now I kinda' want to see that...

Mustafah wrote: I can't agree with you. Sylvanas had an impressive life, and as you said Arthas seemed like a chicken, but now she's different. She is undead, not the ranger general of Quel'thalas. The power went to her head, and it corrupts her. I guess blizz will make a Horde quest to go and stop her madness. Because what she is doing now is madness. And after what I saw she did, I Do prefer Garrosh, he is young and not expirienced, and he does mistakes.

Mustafah wrote: Edit: Seems like after more thought given, her way is a little wierd, trying to gain the trust of all the undead, like going to do a major step against someone. Supporting every single undead, its not normal. I bet the other horde leaders dont exacly have time for every person comes to them. Anyhow, the way she acts is suspecious.

Chrizesu wrote:I wouldn't mind a lich queen imo. Though I'm also pretty upset with the whole Koltira incident. I hope Thassarian saves him.

I also ship KoltiraxThassarian.

Me too