WoW Petopia Community

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I skimmed through the first handful of pages to see what all the comments were about and its funny how the various hunter spec especially toward raiding have evolved from Vanilla to Wrath.

I'm a die hard MM, when I started playing the raiding spec went from Surv to MM then BM

When Burning Crusade came out and BM got exotic pets I switched

Then the raiding spec for BC went BM to Surv then MM

Its funny now with Wrath the preferred raiding spec is MM then Surv and finally BM


I don't agree with the other specs getting Exotic Pets, its the main reason many of us switched to BM in the first place.
It a specialty, do you expect an accountant to walk up to a block of marble and sculpt it into a masterpiece? Of course not, so why would you expect a MM or Surv to know the tricks to taming an exotic pet.

Another comment I don't agree with is a spec without a Pet
As I said before I'm a die hard MM hunter, I may not be as skilled at understanding and taming the rare exotic pets but my pet is my friend and companion since I was a lowly level 10. It would be like telling hunters the only range weapon you can use is a bootarang (Lol I would personally love to raid using a bootarang). A pet is an integral part of being a hunter. If other players don't use them as much or to their fullest that is either lose, don't penalize a spec because of that.

One thing I would like to see tho is something where my pet would sacrifice itself to save me from a killing blow, something similar to the paladin's Divine Intervention or their talent Ardent Defender. Ideally I would like to see all 3 specs have that but with BM getting more of a benefit since we are more attuned to our pets than the others are. For instance with MM and Surv their pets would die, but as BM their pet won't die, but its health reduced to 10% to 20% and stunned for 10 to 20 secs.

Now on that note, as hunters if our pet dies we can rez our pets. I think if we die and our pets are still alive, they should be able to rez us. For instance give that ability to Nether Rays with their Nether Shock acting similar to Jumper Cables and giving you a chance to rez. That would be a reason to pick up a Nether Ray since they don't get as much love as other pets do.

Acherontia wrote:I was about to say this:

Let all hunters tame all pets, just make BM more viable as a tree choice.

I read the last post though and I quite like the idea of a petless MM hunter. Sadly it wouldn't work; too many people would be far too upset at seeing their pets lost.

I think this:

Aspect of the Beast should be a talented BM talent that encompasses Dragonhawk but adds 15% or something to a pet's attack power.

Edit: I really don't think 'exotics for all' would kill BM. I raid as BM with a wolf (which for me outdoes devilsaur) and regularly out-dps other hunters. It isn't down to having a shiny pet that throws a glittery moonfire, it's about itemizing correctly and enjoying your spec--and playing it to the max. I don't think speccing BM purely for exotics is what makes it a non-laughable spec, I think it's a spec in need of something other than a cosmetic advantage.

I kinda like the idea of adding a bit more to the BM to make the idea of all hunters getting exotics. Maybe something like warlocks where they could fuse with their pets to become ridiculously awesome for a while. Imagine becoming a hunter/devilsaur in one body. Totally own in raids.

And maybe another option for taming exotics for SV and MM is to have it as a very, very expensive ability from the trainer only available at 85 and maybe even part of a quest, much like swift druid flight form, while BM can get it even sooner through their tree. I feel like maybe all 3 specs could be able to get exotics, but the trade-offs that make BM so different and just as capable in raids have gotta be more than worth it.

GreenSea wrote:And maybe another option for taming exotics for SV and MM is to have it as a very, very expensive ability from the trainer only available at 85 and maybe even part of a quest, much like swift druid flight form, while BM can get it even sooner through their tree. I feel like maybe all 3 specs could be able to get exotics, but the trade-offs that make BM so different and just as capable in raids have gotta be more than worth it.

sigh...

It's clear that most MM and SV want exotics. But why? Is it because of the rarity? Or is it the utility? I would really like to know.

So what does BM get as a compensation for loosing our 51-point talent? because you are taking it away if you give exotics to everyone. Let's look at some ideas.

1) Another special shot. - Possible Blizz would do it, but it would kill BM, as BM would then just be weak MM, with no real difference.
2) Dual pets - Highly doubtful Blizz would do it since they don't want BM pet damage stronger, and the QQ wouldn't end, especially in PVP.
3) More pet talent points, possibly 8 or 10 more instead of the 4. - Doubtful Blizz would do it, again since they don't want stronger pets, and the talent trees wouldn't provide the benefit for raiding with those extra points.

So, what other options are there? Possibly doing something with the nature damage aspect that they are giving BM with the new shot, but if you focus too much on that you can be gimped with bosses and mobs with high nature resistance.

So, we are back to, if you take away exotics, what will make BM unique?.. because if you gave everyone exotics, and just gave BM another shot, then it becomes "which spec is higher dps", with no reason to take other specs.

Slickrock wrote:

GreenSea wrote:And maybe another option for taming exotics for SV and MM is to have it as a very, very expensive ability from the trainer only available at 85 and maybe even part of a quest, much like swift druid flight form, while BM can get it even sooner through their tree. I feel like maybe all 3 specs could be able to get exotics, but the trade-offs that make BM so different and just as capable in raids have gotta be more than worth it.

sigh...

It's clear that most MM and SV want exotics. But why? Is it because of the rarity? Or is it the utility? I would really like to know.

So what does BM get as a compensation for loosing our 51-point talent? because you are taking it away if you give exotics to everyone. Let's look at some ideas.

1) Another special shot. - Possible Blizz would do it, but it would kill BM, as BM would then just be weak MM, with no real difference.
2) Dual pets - Highly doubtful Blizz would do it since they don't want BM pet damage stronger, and the QQ wouldn't end, especially in PVP.
3) More pet talent points, possibly 8 or 10 more instead of the 4. - Doubtful Blizz would do it, again since they don't want stronger pets, and the talent trees wouldn't provide the benefit for raiding with those extra points.

So, what other options are there? Possibly doing something with the nature damage aspect that they are giving BM with the new shot, but if you focus too much on that you can be gimped with bosses and mobs with high nature resistance.

So, we are back to, if you take away exotics, what will make BM unique?.. because if you gave everyone exotics, and just gave BM another shot, then it becomes "which spec is higher dps", with no reason to take other specs.

We'll just have to wait and see what Cataclysm brings, then, won't we? I don't think anyone here was suggesting that exotics be "taken away" from BM right now, it's sort of an "in-the-future" thing. Who knows what BM will get?

The reason I want exotics (or rather, the reason I want the tag to go away for good), is because I worked my butt off to get King Krush. It isn't about his skill or his utility, it's because I love him and miss him.

Personally, I hope that BM will be a combination of pet damage + venoms, or some sort of specialty like that. You know, like how Survival will be more about the magic damage aspect (and traps, etc.), Marksmanship is supposed to be about the straight-up physical damage shots. Maybe this whole Cobra Shot thing, and the fact that Blizz has mentioned they'd like for it to be BM's "signature", so to speak, is hinting that BM may veer towards a speciality for venoms and stings in addition to pet damage. Something to make them unique without making them reliant on a comsetic difference to set them apart.

That's my hope, anyway. And, it would make BM unique and interesting to play (to me, anyway), enough to raid as BM again.

It bothers me as well, I get a lot of pms saying I am stupid and an idiot because I have an exotic.....

My brother and I were talking last night about what-if's for the future of Beast Mastery, reason being that I went BM for the weekly Malygos fight and was bored with it. I loved seeing Apollyon again, but I just couldn't shake the feeling that BM needs something more. We were thinking, and agreed, that all pets should have their unique abilities removed. That would eliminate the inevitable "You must have x pet for y situation". Even having strictly-utility abilities would still cause hunters to fall into that trap that, "Stun is best for PvP and Run Speed increase is best for raids, etc." (just examples of possible skills) Leave the talent trees there, and let people spec their pet how they want. But that way, no one pet would be better for any given situation than another. Then, make all pets available to all hunters, and make them all normalized across the board as far as hp/dps/etc.

For the 51-point Beast Mastery talent, rather than a CD "stampede"-like ability, just enable Beast Master hunters to keep two pets out at all times and call it something like "Triple Threat". Rather than one larger pet bar, just make two smaller pet bars so it doesn't clutter up the UI. Both pets do 60% of their normal damage, but combined, that equals 120% of normal damage. That way, if you choose to send your pets after two different targets, they hit for less, preventing it from being too overpowered. Keep in mind that Blizzard has said they'd like to steer away from "bursty" PvP fights by giving everyone a lot more hp (remember the bandages that heal for something crazy like 30k+? and that's just for a BANDAGE). That means, no more "beastcleave". If that doesn't seem like enough, they could also keep the four extra talent tree points, or even make it 6 or so to balance out with our extra 5 levels, so Beast Mastery pets would still do more damage than SV and MM pets. Oh, and make Furious Howl a talent that ALL hunter pets can spec into. Bye-bye FotM wolf and hello choice!!!

Crap, I think I'd go back to BM for something fun like that. I already had the intention of taming a red/brown devilsaur and naming it Abaddon. But that'd be even more epic if I could have both of my devilsaurs out at the same time, and have Abaddon and Apollyon! You could have a Humar and an Echeyakee for a neat Yin-Yang type effect, or any combination of things. If all pets' special abilities were removed, there'd be no need to worry about controlling one ability for one pet and the other ability for your second pet.

On top of that, that'd give Beast Masters the cosmetic advantage of having two pets out at once, whereas the other two specs only have their one pet. Two devilsaurs is always better than one. Or, two spirit beasts, or two of whatever you like. The possibilities are endless, and it would open up creativity and uniqueness that we haven't seen before.

I think it's a good balance and combination to make all specs happy. And obviously it could be tweaked to be more or less powerful, the numbers I provided were just for example.

What do you guys think? Would that be acceptable to everyone? Like Nevar has said, this in-fighting between hunters is silly. We're all hunters, we all love our pets, so why is there this big dividing line? We all just want to be happy, and I think the above-mentioned would be a neat start.

There's one giant glaring problem with the much-touted "zomg let beastmasters dual-wield pets!" talent idea...and it's one that I don't know if it's possible for Blizzard to solve.

The pet AI.

Right now we have one pet to micro-manage, one pet to try to keep healed, one pet to call back when it starts waltzing across half the zone while trying to tank for us, one pet to remember to put away lest we jump down in UBRS and pull Rend's entire audience.

I don't want to think about the management nightmare that two would be.

And if you just give one pet bar that controls both...congratulations. We're Enhancement Shamans and didn't really get anything spiffy or unique save for the headache of having to worry about dual pet management all the time instead of just when we pop the cooldown.

Quite frankly, I like the first peek we've seen at some of the new BM talents. They look like exactly what we need. To get a better idea of the full impact of those new talents, I'd want to see the revised talent tree. Like I said: I'm perfectly okay with exotic pets becoming universally available providing Beast Mastery hunter damage becomes comparable to the damage done by the other two specs. BOTH of the other two hunter specs.

Just my two coppers, though.

The dual-pets is a nice idea, and I would endorse it, but the AI issue is certainly a problem, as well as the fact that it would make BM even more reliant upon pet-based damage, which they have stated they don't want to do.

It seems they are trying to convert BM into a nature-damage spec, MM is standard damage, and SV is the elemental damage spec. Hopefully we don't see fights or whole raids where a spec is gimped due to resistances (I know I hate it on my ele shammy when I get "immune" warning when fighting elementals).

Perhaps the BM hunter could go into some sort of altered state, like an advanced BW. But it would have to be powerful enough to be a 51-point talent.

Regardless, we do need to see a revised talent tree, and we need to see how these new 'vemons" work, and what is the difference between them and stings.

And my idea goes down in flames, lol! You both bring up good points, though.

I'm just trying to think of things that would make the majority of BM hunters happy, because from what I've read so far, a lot of it seems to be that people like the cosmetic benefit and the pet ability benefit.

But, like you, I am eager to see the revised talent trees. All three of them, as a matter of fact.

And, as it's been mentioned, I actually think it'd be really neat if Beast Mastery was the pet/nature specialization, SV is the elemental and MM is the physical (the last two already being more or less that way anyway).

I appreciate the input/replies without the "RAWR"-ness.

Oo, and I just kind of noticed this part:

Slickrock wrote:Perhaps the BM hunter could go into some sort of altered state, like an advanced BW. But it would have to be powerful enough to be a 51-point talent.

Sort of like a Shadow Priest's Shadowform? Or did you mean something on a cooldown?

So don't let the 2 pets go after different talents. Make them go after the same one and keep 1 pet bar. Just have each pet do 60% damage. That way when the 2 are alive, it does a 120% boost, and if one dies, we still have 60% damage. Change the buffs to work along the same lines. x% when 2 are alive, y% when 1 is alive. That way we'll be interested in keeping both pets alive, but won't be penalized as much when 1 dies (as we are when our 1 and only pet dies now.) They chould change mend pet to {Mend primary} and {Mend secondary} that way we could heal the one that needs it. They'd have to drop the mana cost tho. Also, we'd have to be careful not to have growl running on both pets at the same time. lol I LOVE the idea tho!

I was thinking about the UI problem and I came to a possible solution should Blizzard ever give BM hunters the ability to have two pets out.
It is pretty simple.
The two pets will be linked together for purposes of targeting things for them to attack, or which target they attack when they are on aggressive or defensive mode.
Each of them will have a separate mini-bar for abilities for you to choose which you will have active, and you can turn on or off any ability you wish. (Or if they get rid of the damn toggling problem, it could just have a couple abilities that you want to use when you want to)
Mend Pet will heal both pets, instead of you having to choose which pet to heal.

Well, thats my thoughts on the idea.

I can see both sides to this but I must say I would LOVE to be able use my 2 spirit beast I have. Heck even a Devilsaur would be neat to. If you spec BM right the dps isn't horribly behind Marks or surv despite what alot of people think. They see BM and it's automatic that BM sucks in raids and your damage is gonna be horrible.

EDIT: Speaking of a BM spec I found this BM raiding spec.

its so late right now and when i saw this and read the first few posts i nearly blew my mind with rage. i vote topics like this should be CLEARLY stated as discussion lol. i was afraid i was going to have to read all 11 pages to get to the source

BM just needs to be redone, something is missing from it and everyone knows it. some choose not to play it while other do. nothing bad to either side

Bleh, my last post sucked. I just deleted it and am starting over. Here were the main points from it:

~Basically. I would hate if MM lost their pets. I was mm from before they were the best spec, and I've always enjoyed it.
~I've never personally cared for BM, even when it was the best spec.
~It irritates me that I have to be BM to get the pets I want, as I mostly play a hunter for the pets, but I enjoy MM more than BM.
~If they fixed the problems with BM and made it as good as MM, it wouldn't matter if they shared the pets, because BM would be special without them.
~It's a crappy excuse to say "well BM wouldn't be special without exotics", because they could just fix BM and it wouldn't matter.(see above bullet)
~I was teased about leveling as MM from day one back in Vanilla. Now I'm forced to switch from a spec I've always loved, because I happen to really like sparkly kitties(<3 u Gondria!)
~Yes, there are MM hunters that care about their pets. My first pet on Casdia was Timber, I tried for an hour to tame him solo before my husband came and helped me. My sole motivation to get to lvl 57 was Rak'shiri, and she was so hard to tame with all the horde and stealthed cats running around as this was still in Vanilla, right before BC hit. I was in tears trying to tame an MC corehound at 70 with my husband and brother in law. Took so many tries that they were about to give up on it. Grinded away for hours to come up with the gold to tame my ghost wolf. And now I'm happily rare-hunting in northrend, even though I dislike BM, I'll stay with it for teh pets.

I dedicate this post to Larsha, the effing pain in the butt corehound!
Casdia: *kicks him* *get's happily drooled on* *sighs* -_- *throws meat at him whilst grumbling obscenities* *looks back to see him chasing Tacoma the crab* "Damnit Larsha! Tacoma is not food! Quit trying to eat him! That's my only tanking pet!" *Prevents Larsha from eating the crab* *shakes head in disgust* *stalks off and goes to cuddle Zukauni(gondria), Tovauni(Ghostwuff) and Zaskari(loque), her only sane pets*


Casdia loves her corehound, she really does, but it's hard to tell. I've written a few stories about their misadventures.

i think bm should be able to have to pets if u think about it would be easy to control and not a hard thing to master just not the same type of pet like not having two tenacity pets just 1 tenacity n a cunning or w/e i think that would make bm the greatest ever wolf+worm= win

Blizz should think about making BM compatible with MM or SV to be equal while raiding before they think of giving the other specs exotic beasts. I'd love to use my Spirit Beasts or Core Hound to roflstomp through ICC, but I stick with just using my wolf because I need to be in SV to easily raid with my guild.

I just can't seem to stay in BM for a long time anymore, I feel like I'm barely putting any damage out with it.

Since this thread has been resurrected, I figured I would throw my two cents back into the discussion.

I find it interesting that although the players that enjoy playing the other specs you know... Survival hunters and Marksman hunters, want to have the cool ability that only Beastmaster hunters get.

I can't see a Devilsaur, a Spirit Beast or a Corehound listening to just ANY silly hunter. The hunter that would be able to befriend one of these true Beasts had better have a really strong bond with animals. Like spending allot of time and energy to develop it. (in game terms, spend a ton of talent points, which equates to intense training that the character has gone through.)

Any bumble headed hunter can tame a wolf, but only a true Beast Master hunter with real dedication to their companion can have any hope of taming a Devilsaur.

But I have to know, why do you want exotic pets as a SV or MM hunter... really?

To have a shiny pet like BM hunters do?
"Sparkles is pretty, I really love how she looks with a nice snow background, it really makes her shine. Especially when she is standing next to me while I am wearing my pretty blue dress."

Because you tamed a rare spawn spirit beast while playing around with BM and think you "deserve" to have the pet with whatever spec you choose now?
"If only I could have my devilsaur AND explosive shot...."

Sorry buddy, but them's the breaks. If you don't like the play style or giving up all those cool talents that you get in the MM or SV trees, thats just too bad.

Wow, didn't know this thread was still living, thanks for the comments and various of replies Even if there has been some fighting we've agreed to some point I believe


Thread above, thanks for your input, I really love the way you talked there, with the quotions aswell as the training explaination :p

I Wont be making a HUGE input again here, because I think what I wanted to say, has been said earlier in my post on around the 1-8 pages :p

Yeah! Also, if you care, I'm back after a nice summer vacation, onto school and stuff aswell, lovely. SORRY offtopic, but hey, MY THREAD !