WoW Petopia Community

Neither side is going to agree so I think people should continue playing how they want, knowing that changes may or may not come down the pipeline in the future.

Right now my Hati is an acceptable skin. I don't know if I'll keep it that way. If I decide murloc Hati must be mine once again, then yes, I understand the risk I'm taking in doing so. That's my decision to make.

Considering the sheer amount of ToCs being broken every day, Blizzard has just cause to ban about 95% of the player base at any given time, and yet they don't. I'm sure some of the people saying "Don't do this!" are guilty of some of those infractions too, but they might not even be aware of it. Or is everyone claiming they actually READ the entire terms and conditions contract? I doubt it. Just think about that before scolding everyone else for what they choose to do on their own account.

viaradda wrote:Have people forgotten the slime crocolisk?

It was an obviously-unintended pet appearance. But when they fixed it, they let those who had it already keep it (even though they could have removed it, like they did with the Worgen). So those who exploited the bug were rewarded with a unique-looking pet, while those who "did the right thing" by not taking advantage of the bug were punished as they no longer were able to acquire it.

Part of me is wondering if at some point certain Hati "skins" will get grandfathered in, and then I'll feel like a fool for not having done so when it was available.

I'm going to give my two cents and say that we didn't ask for Hati, we asked for a second pet and that's not what Hati is. The Swapper is just a way to semi-appease us, I can understand the oversized and invisible Hatis being an issue, but frankly in PvP ppl use nameplates and don't target pets. I don't like Hati, the AI is bad and does NOT function the same way an actual pet AI fuctions so for now I will continue to drag around an orange lizard person because that makes me happy and that makes this broken spec worth playing right now. My happiness isn't hurting anyone or anything, it's not game breaking, it's not a dps gain, it's clear that it's Hati with all the lightning (and again nameplates). Hunters have been glitching pets sense Vanilla and that gave us a new pet family (Serpents). So really what is the problem?

viaradda wrote:Have people forgotten the slime crocolisk?

It was an obviously-unintended pet appearance. But when they fixed it, they let those who had it already keep it (even though they could have removed it, like they did with the Worgen). So those who exploited the bug were rewarded with a unique-looking pet, while those who "did the right thing" by not taking advantage of the bug were punished as they no longer were able to acquire it.

Given this precedent Blizzard set, it is ridiculous to suggest that people who are taking advantage of the current bug are acting inappropriately. It would be ludicrous to ban players for having a non-beast pet when they have been okay with players having a non-beast pet for years.

I think the reason this is such a hot button (I could be wrong though) is that in all the prior exploit tames Blizzard has not said a peep. They've just hotfixed it and left it be.
This time though.
They said something.
For a Blizzard Dev to put this out there:

Hati will now reset appearance to the default blue wolf form the first time summoned.

Developers’ Notes: Due to a bug, some hunters had Hati transform with the Essence Swapper into appearances that are unintended. A fix has been made for this to prevent future issues, but to get rid of any unintended appearances that players may already have, Hati’s appearance will be reverted to the default blue wolf when first summoned, and should retain any appearance changes thereafter. The Essence Swapper will continue to allow you to change Hati’s appearance to match that of your currently active hunter pet.

Is a big deal.
I, at least, am taking it as a big deal. To me, this is serious. They've found it to be enough of a wide spread issue and problem to actually say something and try fix it.

Like I said though. I could be wrong. *shrug*

zedxrgal wrote: I think the reason this is such a hot button (I could be wrong though) is that in all the prior exploit tames Blizzard has not said a peep. They've just hotfixed it and left it be.
This time though.
They said something.
For a Blizzard Dev to put this out there:

They're more communicative than they used to be. Hotfix notes with developer commentary are a relatively recent thing - they weren't doing that when the slime event happened.

Xella wrote:

Blizzard wrote:Developers’ Notes: Due to a bug, some hunters had Hati transform with the Essence Swapper into appearances that are unintended. A fix has been made for this to prevent future issues, but to get rid of any unintended appearances that players may already have, Hati’s appearance will be reverted to the default blue wolf when first summoned, and should retain any appearance changes thereafter. The Essence Swapper will continue to allow you to change Hati’s appearance to match that of your currently active hunter pet.

Have they said anything else on the issue past that point, or are "Blizzard is fine with it" and "Blizzard said stop" both coming from these three sentences?

Metamorphosis Hati is clearly no longer working, and meta-Hati was both the most common and the most annoying for other players due to its size. I haven't tried invisi-Hati because it spooked me too much the first time, but as I mentioned at the time that one was discovered, it was rife for... well, it was rife for something, since it made Hati untargetable, and I guess if you wanted to cheese a hunter off by killing the pet they can't actually track the HP of it made that more difficult, but either way I greatly suspect that invisi-Hati isn't obtainable anymore either. In the dev notes for the hotfix they state pretty clearly that "a fix has been made for this to prevent future issues," and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like this is where the division is coming from.

One camp feels that because a hotfix was done rolling Hati's appearance back for everybody, that means that ANY "trick tame" Hatis are unacceptable to Blizzard ("some hunters had Hati transform with the Essence Swapper into appearances that are unintended"). The natural extension of this camp is that continuing to "trick tame" Hati is a violation of the Terms of Service because it is now classified as an exploit.

The other camp feels that since not all the "creative" Hati transformations were broken, but clearly some were (notably the ones that made life difficult for other players) AND Blizzard outright stated that they fixed the problem ("a fix has been made for this to prevent future issues"), the remaining "trick tame" Hatis are either acceptable or at the very least not an exploit and an additional fix for game-breaking versions will come down the pipeline at a later date. The extension of this camp's philosophy is that continuing to "trick tame" Hati is NOT a violation of the Terms of Service because the exploitable Hatis are no longer in the game.

Do I have that mostly correct?

Perfectly put, yes.

The first camp fears that what they see as continued violations will cause the Essence Swapper to be removed entirely and are coming down hard on the second camp for it.

peanutbuttercup wrote:Neither side is going to agree so I think people should continue playing how they want, knowing that changes may or may not come down the pipeline in the future.

Right now my Hati is an acceptable skin. I don't know if I'll keep it that way. If I decide murloc Hati must be mine once again, then yes, I understand the risk I'm taking in doing so. That's my decision to make.

Considering the sheer amount of ToCs being broken every day, Blizzard has just cause to ban about 95% of the player base at any given time, and yet they don't. I'm sure some of the people saying "Don't do this!" are guilty of some of those infractions too, but they might not even be aware of it. Or is everyone claiming they actually READ the entire terms and conditions contract? I doubt it. Just think about that before scolding everyone else for what they choose to do on their own account.

Perfectly put, I'm of the same mindset.

How difficult would it be to just make the item copy the model associated with the NPC ID of the pet rather than the current model of the pet? For example (this is Wowhead's number, no idea if it's the actual ID), http://www.wowhead.com/npc=27131/grizzly-bear is number 27131. If you have some sort of polymorph or whatever on the pet, how difficult would it be to just make the swapper bypass what YOUR pet looks like and just copy the look of the NPC?

I have no real experience in coding or anything, so I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it'd be difficult. Making it unusable in combat might work for a lot of transformations but a few might still be able to bleed through, like the Ihgaluk Crag or Hex of Jammal'an appearances.

peanutbuttercup wrote:Considering the sheer amount of ToCs being broken every day, Blizzard has just cause to ban about 95% of the player base at any given time, and yet they don't. I'm sure some of the people saying "Don't do this!" are guilty of some of those infractions too, but they might not even be aware of it. Or is everyone claiming they actually READ the entire terms and conditions contract? I doubt it. Just think about that before scolding everyone else for what they choose to do on their own account.

That...doesn't matter. As they say in real life about the law...just because you claim ignorance doesn't make you above the law. In this case, just because you didn't read the ToU doesn't make the rules suddenly not apply to you or others that didn't read it. They're there for a reason. Blizz has been very no-nonsense about exploits in the past. This is different than the oil wolf or glowy purple undead bear.

That being said, I'm not changing my mind on the matter. Blizz spoke out about it. That's a big deal to me and obviously to many others and we have a right to feel outraged when others continue to exploit and potentially ruin it for those who want to be good citizens and abide by the rules. I don't really think it's too much to ask for people to be a bit considerate and respectful to not only Blizzard, but to those of us who want to have Hati as he is intended.

Hati will now reset appearance to the default blue wolf form the first time summoned.

Developers’ Notes: Due to a bug, some hunters had Hati transform with the Essence Swapper into appearances that are unintended. A fix has been made for this to prevent future issues, but to get rid of any unintended appearances that players may already have, Hati’s appearance will be reverted to the default blue wolf when first summoned, and should retain any appearance changes thereafter. The Essence Swapper will continue to allow you to change Hati’s appearance to match that of your currently active hunter pet.

First and foremost: Can anyone on either side of this argument tell me definitively which pet looks are intended and which ones are unintended? Not speculation about polymorphs or invisible pets or whatever other temporary looks or sizes or versions. But actual legitimate facts? Because if you can do that, the whole thing becomes much easier.

Effigy wrote:Why is this so controversial? Blizzard said stop. That means stop. Continuing to do is exploiting according to ToS. Idk why it suddenly became such a big deal to ask others to follow the rules so you don't ruin everyone's fun, which if you keep it up you just might. How many times do you think they'll ask nicely? Willing to bet not again since everyone's taking advantage of this exploit yet again even after told to stop.

zedxrgal wrote:For those questioning though. What could make this bannable is that blizzard has already diplomatically stated to stop changing Hati, even wiping the looks and people are still doing a "F you" so to speak and reverting him back to a non beast look which IS an exploit and as such against the ToS which is bannable. I don't care how you try and word it to make it acceptable.

Iowawolf wrote:Said this before and will say it again that Blizzard has flat out said to stop changing Hati into things not allowed and yet you are still doing it which is like spitting in their face while they are nice enough to give us this neat toy to make Hati look like another of our pets many players don't seem to give a rats behind about anyone but themselves which if further provoked Blizzard can remove it just like they removed the xp from pet battles. My hunter is only 103 and hasn't gotten this yet and I will be pissed off if because of selfish players disobeying Blizzard forces them to remove this item.

I politely suggest working on leveling your hunter, if getting the item is such a concern, instead of posting more than once that you're only 103 and afraid they're going to remove an entire voiced and animated questline to get rid of a single item.

And the way I read it states that they fixed the issues that were unintended, and the swapper will continue to work as intended. The post was more for "If you had something bad, you can't do the bad thing anymore. Any changes you try now will work, if they're not the bad thing. And we made everyone start over to get rid of all the bad."

Equeon wrote:

Zetharl wrote:So far, the only people I see a acting offended and throwing a tantrum are those telling others to stop.

Agreed. Acting as if turning your pet into a skeleton or a murloc for a few days before this is inevitably patched is not "stealing from the cookie jar". Nor is it "throwing a tantrum."

This is no different from getting the oil-stained wolves, slime crocolisks, grubs, or baby direhorns. If it's an issue, it will be removed.

If it's not, don't act all high and mighty as if we hunters have some massive responsibility to not enjoy harmless fun because of something unintended.

Careful, that's the end of the world you're flirting with.

BaneFalcon wrote:

Hati will now reset appearance to the default blue wolf form the first time summoned.

Developers’ Notes: Due to a bug, some hunters had Hati transform with the Essence Swapper into appearances that are unintended. A fix has been made for this to prevent future issues, but to get rid of any unintended appearances that players may already have, Hati’s appearance will be reverted to the default blue wolf when first summoned, and should retain any appearance changes thereafter. The Essence Swapper will continue to allow you to change Hati’s appearance to match that of your currently active hunter pet.

First and foremost: Can anyone on either side of this argument tell me definitively which pet looks are intended and which ones are unintended? Not speculation about polymorphs or invisible pets or whatever other temporary looks or sizes or versions. But actual legitimate facts? Because if you can do that, the whole thing becomes much easier.

Far as I know, anything that is actually tameable. The intent was for it to look like another beast that hunters can tame, typically one you already have since people wanted two pets out at once from their stable.

Frisk wrote:

peanutbuttercup wrote:Considering the sheer amount of ToCs being broken every day, Blizzard has just cause to ban about 95% of the player base at any given time, and yet they don't. I'm sure some of the people saying "Don't do this!" are guilty of some of those infractions too, but they might not even be aware of it. Or is everyone claiming they actually READ the entire terms and conditions contract? I doubt it. Just think about that before scolding everyone else for what they choose to do on their own account.

That...doesn't matter. As they say in real life about the law...just because you claim ignorance doesn't make you above the law. In this case, just because you didn't read the ToU doesn't make the rules suddenly not apply to you or others that didn't read it. They're there for a reason. Blizz has been very no-nonsense about exploits in the past. This is different than the oil wolf or glowy purple undead bear.

That being said, I'm not changing my mind on the matter. Blizz spoke out about it. That's a big deal to me and obviously to many others and we have a right to feel outraged when others continue to exploit and potentially ruin it for those who want to be good citizens and abide by the rules. I don't really think it's too much to ask for people to be a bit considerate and respectful to not only Blizzard, but to those of us who want to have Hati as he is intended.

I'm not claiming ignorance at all. I'm saying others are claiming ignorance, saying they would "never ever break the rules." Ever curse in a general channel? That's breaking the rules. Name a toon something suggestive? Breaking the rules. Work in collusion with someone playing the opposite faction? Breaking the rules.

I'm fully aware I've done things that break the rules and I've done them knowing that there's always a chance I'll be punished for it. I've never done anything horrible, but yes, I've broken a number of rules.

And I'm not trying to change anyone's minds. Like I said, "Neither side is going to agree so I think people should continue playing how they want." I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. Being respectful of opinions works both ways.

Frisk wrote:I don't really think it's too much to ask for people to be a bit considerate and respectful to not only Blizzard, but to those of us who want to have Hati as he is intended.

This is the part I don't understand; even if Blizzard cuts off the proverbial nose to spite the metaphorical face and disables the Essence Swapper entirely, how does that make it so hunters who don't want to "trick tame" Hati at all not have Hati as he's intended?

Further, even if every hunter on Petopia not in your camp was like "all right, I don't agree that this is something that Blizzard has asked us not to do but I will refrain from doing it anyway" and reverted their trick tames... none of us can control the whole world, and the number of hunters not on Petopia vastly outnumber the amount of us who are.

I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, or that we should all jump off bridges because unknown numbers of other people are, even though I know that sounds like what I'm saying. I think it's very likely that everybody here who DOES want to trick-tame Hati knows to be respectful about it, both to other players and to Blizzard in general. Not every hunter who plays BM enough to have picked up the Essence Swapper will do so, but none of us can control—or even influence—the actions of those other hunters.

Full disclosure: I did not revert my murloc!Hati after doing the post-hotfix testing and bug reports. I don't believe that doing so is against the ToU because I believe, from the dev note on the hotfix, that murloc!Hati is "acceptable." I am willing to take the chance that I'm wrong, whether I find that out from another developer note or a blue post saying "yo hey we're not really cool with this" or with changes to the swapper and another round of Hati wipes or whatever. If I get suspended or banned for it, that would be real weird because it'd be the first offense and/or negative GM attention on an account that's been active since the game launched, but that's a risk that comes with the territory and while I feel like the chance of it happening are lower than my actually getting the long-forgotten hippogryph any time before the end of 2016 (because again, based on the information we have I don't think murloc!Hati is considered unacceptable), I guess I'm still willing to take that risk.

Also, however this ends up turning out, if murloc!Hati stops being a thing (and I still have my account at the end of the day), I'm almost certainly going to rename my ACTUAL Murky Hati, lol

BaneFalcon wrote:

Hati will now reset appearance to the default blue wolf form the first time summoned.

Developers’ Notes: Due to a bug, some hunters had Hati transform with the Essence Swapper into appearances that are unintended. A fix has been made for this to prevent future issues, but to get rid of any unintended appearances that players may already have, Hati’s appearance will be reverted to the default blue wolf when first summoned, and should retain any appearance changes thereafter. The Essence Swapper will continue to allow you to change Hati’s appearance to match that of your currently active hunter pet.

First and foremost: Can anyone on either side of this argument tell me definitively which pet looks are intended and which ones are unintended? Not speculation about polymorphs or invisible pets or whatever other temporary looks or sizes or versions. But actual legitimate facts? Because if you can do that, the whole thing becomes much easier.

What we know for certain:

• Intended: Unmodified copies of existing pets
• Unintended: Modified copies of existing pets (meaning: the hunter's main pet had an appearance-changing buff/debuff and Hati now has that appearance permanently)

What we don't know:

• Were looks that were originally unintended deemed "okay" and grandfathered in since they were not eliminated by the hotfix?

Should I ask for the thread to be closed? I don't want this topic to start anything it should.

A few people thought it should be closed at this point, and I agree. I think everything constructive has been already said.