WoW Petopia Community

@Shade
I don't bother with Rivendare or Invincible either. I want them so badly but I've run for both so many times and gotten nothing. I'm GLAD some mounts are store stuff for this reason. We have a lot of cool ingame mounts that have nice details. Doesn't hurt to put a few for easy access.

I think everyone here tirelessly defending the store mounts because of either "Blizzard is a company, they need money somehow" or "It's nice to have mounts that aren't super-difficult to obtain" is missing the bigger problem here, at least in my view.

I don't have a problem with offering mounts for sale. The real problem is that the store mounts started have begun replacing in-game mounts, both in terms of availability and appearance.

Let's take a look at the history of the store mounts. The first one was the infamous "Sparklepony." While it could possibly have been tied to Algalon, due to the celestial theme, I think it didn't really fit anywhere except available through the store.

Then there was the Winged Guardian, the Heart of the Aspects, the Warforged Nightmare, and the Windsteed.

Noticing a pattern here? These are all ridiculously extravagant mounts, with no ties to Warcraft lore, but are very cool and flashy. These are perfect mounts to be bought in the in-game store, and could not be obtained ingame without some creative acrobatics, or at least some story modified to accomodate them (Windsteeds, despite looking like they could fit in Pandaria, are not mentioned anywhere.)

"Here's a flying cat that's a rare spawn, but we never mentioned these before because... yeah. They really keep to themselves."
"Heroic Deathwing defeated? Oh, let me just ride around on the combined essence that the Dragon Aspects used to destroy Deathwing!"

These make sense as store items, and they have enough beautiful effects to be popular purchases.
But everything changed when the Armored Bloodwing attacked.

The Armored Bloodwing was something players were clamoring for since Vanilla - a bat mount. Everyone who'd ever taken the flight paths near Undercity probably wanted to ride around on a bat at some point, and now you could - for the price of $25.

It only got worse in Warlords of Draenor. Compared to their predecessors, these new mounts were not extravagant or lore-lacking at all, but rather legitimate mounts that NPCs rode ingame. These new mounts, that SO OBVIOUSLY fit reputation rewards, were offered only in the store.

Fey Dragon - Council of Exarchs
Grinning Reaver - Laughing Skull
Dread Raven - Arakkoa Outcasts

The Iron Skyreaver should have been the CE pet or been the raid meta reward, instead. As if to add salt to the wound, you can even see Iron Horde NPCs riding around on Armored Bloodwings around Shattrath.

What did we get in the live version? Boars, talbuks, riverbeasts, and wolves, scattered across all reputations throughout Draenor like these animals piled themselves into a big Hellfire cannon and got launched out. The Arakkoa Outcasts sell a talbuk mount as a reputation reward, despite the fact that no Arakkoa can be seen riding or domesticating talbuks. In fact, there are no talbuk NPCs whatsoever in all of Spires of Arak, the home of the Arakkoa. The same goes for the Laughing Skull tribe selling a wolf–there aren't even any wolves in Gorgrond. It's almost like the logical choice for a reputation award was ripped away and replaced with a random mount.

In addition, there is an actual dearth of unique new mounts in WoD.

In Pandaria, the new ingame models we got were Cloud Serpents, Phoenixes, Kites, Mushan, a Waterstrider, a Flying Disc, a Pterodactyl, a Thunderbird, Direhorns, a Sky Golem, and a badass Worg.
Non-new models were still pretty unique overall, with Armored Tigers, an Amber Scorpion and a Robot Scorpion, among others.

In Warlords of Draenor, the new ingame models we got were Clefthooves, Gronnlings, a Suncrow, a Yeti, an Iron Sky Golem, a Corehound (special event) and a Skyreaver.
Non-new models were mostly just one of five creatures: boars, elekks, talbuks, riverbeasts, and wolves. The animations of most of these are generally atrocious.

Boars, until a recent hotfix, moved their legs at the speed of light. Talbuks' tails still move up and down in the most unnatural way. Riverbeasts also move ridiculously fast, and so do all but two of the new wolves.

The new meta reward? A GREEN WOLF. The AoTC reward? Nothing. How would this ever motivate me, a casual player, to try to down current content like the Kor'Kron worg might?

Had this new philosophy on mounts been implemented earlier, I would expect the Life-Binder's Handmaiden and Thunder Pterodactyl to be store mounts, and an additional Flying Kunchong mount to be available for $30. It's a real shame.

The influx of new store mounts is sacrificing both quality and quantity of mounts actually available in-game. With the Moose mount revealed, I dread that this trend will continue well into the next expansion, if not for the rest of the game's lifetime.

Equeon wrote:I think everyone here tirelessly defending the store mounts because of either "Blizzard is a company, they need money somehow" or "It's nice to have mounts that aren't super-difficult to obtain" is missing the bigger problem here, at least in my view.

I don't have a problem with offering mounts for sale. The real problem is that the store mounts started have begun replacing in-game mounts, both in terms of availability and appearance.

Let's take a look at the history of the store mounts. The first one was the infamous "Sparklepony." While it could possibly have been tied to Algalon, due to the celestial theme, I think it didn't really fit anywhere except available through the store.

Then there was the Winged Guardian, the Heart of the Aspects, the Warforged Nightmare, and the Windsteed.

Noticing a pattern here? These are all ridiculously extravagant mounts, with no ties to Warcraft lore, but are very cool and flashy. These are perfect mounts to be bought in the in-game store, and could not be obtained ingame without some creative acrobatics, or at least some story modified to accomodate them (Windsteeds, despite looking like they could fit in Pandaria, are not mentioned anywhere.)

"Here's a flying cat that's a rare spawn, but we never mentioned these before because... yeah. They really keep to themselves."
"Heroic Deathwing defeated? Oh, let me just ride around on the combined essence that the Dragon Aspects used to destroy Deathwing!"

These make sense as store items, and they have enough beautiful effects to be popular purchases.
But everything changed when the Armored Bloodwing attacked.

The Armored Bloodwing was something players were clamoring for since Vanilla - a bat mount. Everyone who'd ever taken the flight paths near Undercity probably wanted to ride around on a bat at some point, and now you could - for the price of $25.

It only got worse in Warlords of Draenor. Compared to their predecessors, these new mounts were not extravagant or lore-lacking at all, but rather legitimate mounts that NPCs rode ingame. These new mounts, that SO OBVIOUSLY fit reputation rewards, were offered only in the store.

Fey Dragon - Council of Exarchs
Grinning Reaver - Laughing Skull
Dread Raven - Arakkoa Outcasts

The Iron Skyreaver should have been the CE pet or been the raid meta reward, instead. As if to add salt to the wound, you can even see Iron Horde NPCs riding around on Armored Bloodwings around Shattrath.

What did we get in the live version? Boars, talbuks, riverbeasts, and wolves, scattered across all reputations throughout Draenor like these animals piled themselves into a big Hellfire cannon and got launched out. The Arakkoa Outcasts sell a talbuk mount as a reputation reward, despite the fact that no Arakkoa can be seen riding or domesticating talbuks. In fact, there are no talbuk NPCs whatsoever in all of Spires of Arak, the home of the Arakkoa. The same goes for the Laughing Skull tribe selling a wolf–there aren't even any wolves in Gorgrond. It's almost like the logical choice for a reputation award was ripped away and replaced with a random mount.

In addition, there is an actual dearth of unique new mounts in WoD.

In Pandaria, the new ingame models we got were Cloud Serpents, Phoenixes, Kites, Mushan, a Waterstrider, a Flying Disc, a Pterodactyl, a Thunderbird, Direhorns, a Sky Golem, and a badass Worg.
Non-new models were still pretty unique overall, with Armored Tigers, an Amber Scorpion and a Robot Scorpion, among others.

In Warlords of Draenor, the new ingame models we got were Clefthooves, Gronnlings, a Suncrow, a Yeti, an Iron Sky Golem, a Corehound (special event) and a Skyreaver.
Non-new models were mostly just one of five creatures: boars, elekks, talbuks, riverbeasts, and wolves. The animations of most of these are generally atrocious.

Boars, until a recent hotfix, moved their legs at the speed of light. Talbuks' tails still move up and down in the most unnatural way. Riverbeasts also move ridiculously fast, and so do all but two of the new wolves.

The new meta reward? A GREEN WOLF. The AoTC reward? Nothing. How would this ever motivate me, a casual player, to try to down current content like the Kor'Kron worg might?

Had this new philosophy on mounts been implemented earlier, I would expect the Life-Binder's Handmaiden and Thunder Pterodactyl to be store mounts, and an additional Flying Kunchong mount to be available for $30. It's a real shame.

The influx of new store mounts is sacrificing both quality and quantity of mounts actually available in-game. With the Moose mount revealed, I dread that this trend will continue well into the next expansion, if not for the rest of the game's lifetime.

This is a great post that almost perfectly summarized my thoughts.

Like, if I were to imagine these kind of decisions in old content, this would be an example:

It's like if you had to farm Skyguard rep, and at the end of it, you got a wolf recolour, while one colour of the Nether Ray mount is put on the store because it looks flashier and more unique than regular mounts.

Laughing Skull and their rewarding of a rep, Apexis and gold grind with a random wolf recolour while the mount that they walked around on, that represented them almost 100% in game, to the point that they were even the flight master mounts, was put on the shop is the most egregious example of this in WoD.

And about that Arakkoa Outcasts rep: I had the same reaction. Like.. really? A talbuk? Where are Arakkoa seen using a talbuk -- ever? You could have put a saddle on a large Kaliri and it would have been a better option, or added the regular Stormcrow model (which, so far, has still gone unused as a mount) as the mount.

Qraljar wrote:

Wain wrote:I know a store mount is an unjustifiable luxury for some people, especially if you're a student or out of work. I know it's of little consolation when you're in that position but as Pepsi Jedi pointed out at least Store mounts represent a very tiny proportion of total mounts. And we do have some really awesome mounts available in game. In fact the upcoming Azure Celestial Cloud Serpent is probably the one I love more than any other and that's a collection achievement mount. I'm so looking forward to it!

I don't think it's really acceptable in some cases. Like in WoD, where it was Boarlords of GoToTheShopnor. Sorry, but you can't add unique mounts to the shop and then give players the umpteenth boar recolour, especially when the boar animations have only been given a bandaid fix since 6.0.

If you can't give players a vast variety of mounts in the game, you don't deserve to make an extra buck off putting unique mounts in the shop.

First you finish your plate (create unique and interesting mounts for players to get ingame) and then you have dessert (put mounts on the store for extra money), that's simply how it should be. Else I'd be playing a F2P game.

But as pointed out. You're really not. You're complaining about a minor cosmetic item. 11 total (With the new one) out of over 300. Your complaint is silly. Store mounts give you no benifit in the game other than something nice to look at.

You don't like the boar mounts? Ride one of the 290 other mounts. lol (I don't like them either. nor do I ride um). Blizzard doesn't 'owe' you the mount you want, just because you want it. (Oh if wishing made it so)

You just don't wanna pay for the mount you like. Ok. Then don't. Tell blizzard that way. But don't complain and act like you're some how getting ripped off. You're not. You can afford the store mount if you want one. If you have $15 disposable income per month, you can put away an extra $5 a month for a couple of months and buy the mount. Noone playing wow is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO poor that they're going to starve for a store mount.

It's $20. Pay it, or don't pay it, but don't act like you're some how getting wronged because you want exclusive extra content but want YOURS to be free.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Qraljar wrote:

Wain wrote:I know a store mount is an unjustifiable luxury for some people, especially if you're a student or out of work. I know it's of little consolation when you're in that position but as Pepsi Jedi pointed out at least Store mounts represent a very tiny proportion of total mounts. And we do have some really awesome mounts available in game. In fact the upcoming Azure Celestial Cloud Serpent is probably the one I love more than any other and that's a collection achievement mount. I'm so looking forward to it!

I don't think it's really acceptable in some cases. Like in WoD, where it was Boarlords of GoToTheShopnor. Sorry, but you can't add unique mounts to the shop and then give players the umpteenth boar recolour, especially when the boar animations have only been given a bandaid fix since 6.0.

If you can't give players a vast variety of mounts in the game, you don't deserve to make an extra buck off putting unique mounts in the shop.

First you finish your plate (create unique and interesting mounts for players to get ingame) and then you have dessert (put mounts on the store for extra money), that's simply how it should be. Else I'd be playing a F2P game.

But as pointed out. You're really not. You're complaining about a minor cosmetic item. 11 total (With the new one) out of over 300. Your complaint is silly. Store mounts give you no benifit in the game other than something nice to look at.

You don't like the boar mounts? Ride one of the 290 other mounts. lol (I don't like them either. nor do I ride um). Blizzard doesn't 'owe' you the mount you want, just because you want it. (Oh if wishing made it so)

You just don't wanna pay for the mount you like. Ok. Then don't. Tell blizzard that way. But don't complain and act like you're some how getting ripped off. You're not. You can afford the store mount if you want one. If you have $15 disposable income per month, you can put away an extra $5 a month for a couple of months and buy the mount. Noone playing wow is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO poor that they're going to starve for a store mount.

It's $20. Pay it, or don't pay it, but don't act like you're some how getting wronged because you want exclusive extra content but want YOURS to be free.

Sorry for being so entitled that I think paying 50 bucks (for half an expansion compared to previous ones even) + 12+ bucks a month entitles me to the ability to get a mount from the Arakkoa Exiles that isn't a Talbuk recolour. When do Arakkoa even use Talbuks?

Equeon wrote: I think everyone here tirelessly defending the store mounts because of either "Blizzard is a company, they need money somehow" or "It's nice to have mounts that aren't super-difficult to obtain" is missing the bigger problem here, at least in my view.

I don't have a problem with offering mounts for sale. The real problem is that the store mounts started have begun replacing in-game mounts, both in terms of availability and appearance.

11 mounts in the store (Including the moose)

Over 300 mounts in the game.

No. Store mounts aren't replacing in game mounts, in availability or appearance.

Equeon wrote:
Let's take a look at the history of the store mounts. The first one was the infamous "Sparklepony." While it could possibly have been tied to Algalon, due to the celestial theme, I think it didn't really fit anywhere except available through the store.

Then there was the Winged Guardian, the Heart of the Aspects, the Warforged Nightmare, and the Windsteed.

Noticing a pattern here? These are all ridiculously extravagant mounts, with no ties to Warcraft lore, but are very cool and flashy. These are perfect mounts to be bought in the in-game store, and could not be obtained ingame without some creative acrobatics, or at least some story modified to accomodate them (Windsteeds, despite looking like they could fit in Pandaria, are not mentioned anywhere.)

"Here's a flying cat that's a rare spawn, but we never mentioned these before because... yeah. They really keep to themselves."
"Heroic Deathwing defeated? Oh, let me just ride around on the combined essence that the Dragon Aspects used to destroy Deathwing!"

These make sense as store items, and they have enough beautiful effects to be popular purchases.
But everything changed when the Armored Bloodwing attacked.

The Armored Bloodwing was something players were clamoring for since Vanilla - a bat mount. Everyone who'd ever taken the flight paths near Undercity probably wanted to ride around on a bat at some point, and now you could - for the price of $25.

So pay it. Or don't. Don't be cheep and then complain that you're not given everything you want. Again, these things aren't breaking the bank for anyone. If you -want one-.... -buy one-. You're not 'entitled' to anything in wow beyond the game. The bloodwing IS cool. I rather like mine. It was cool enough for me to spend the money to fly around on one. I was never entilted to it because I thought it'd be neat.

Equeon wrote:

It only got worse in Warlords of Draenor. Compared to their predecessors, these new mounts were not extravagant or lore-lacking at all, but rather legitimate mounts that NPCs rode ingame. These new mounts, that SO OBVIOUSLY fit reputation rewards, were offered only in the store.

Fey Dragon - Council of Exarchs
Grinning Reaver - Laughing Skull
Dread Raven - Arakkoa Outcasts

So you ASSUME. It could very well be, "We need 3 store mounts to release over the course of the next expansion. Lets tie them in with the game instead of having something completely random. Your ASSUMPTION That they're some how 'taken' from other places doesn't make it so.

If memory serves the Fae Dragon came out before WoD. I seem to remember toolin' around on the Timeless isle with mine, and the Dread Raven was the CE mount. Not a store mount at all. The OTHER raven mount, you could get through a faction in the game.

Equeon wrote:

The Iron Skyreaver should have been the CE pet or been the raid meta reward, instead. As if to add salt to the wound, you can even see Iron Horde NPCs riding around on Armored Bloodwings around Shattrath.

I'm glad it wasn't. That ugly ass thing is the only store mount I've not bought. It's hideous and looks stupid. But again, you're taking your personal preference, ascribing it as what 'should' be, and then proposing it as 'fact'. That doesn't make it so. The Skyreaver, just as likely could be like I said above. "Lets develop a mount for the store that encompasses the essence of WoD, so ANYONE can get it. Not just people that raid in the top 2%, or spend 20 hours grinding rep for ____ faction.

You're assuming it 'should be' something and then just deciding your right, then getting offended that it was 'taken' from your assumed place of prominance.

Equeon wrote:

What did we get in the live version? Boars, talbuks, riverbeasts, and wolves, scattered across all reputations throughout Draenor like these animals piled themselves into a big Hellfire cannon and got launched out. The Arakkoa Outcasts sell a talbuk mount as a reputation reward, despite the fact that no Arakkoa can be seen riding or domesticating talbuks. In fact, there are no talbuk NPCs whatsoever in all of Spires of Arak, the home of the Arakkoa. The same goes for the Laughing Skull tribe selling a wolf–there aren't even any wolves in Gorgrond. It's almost like the logical choice for a reputation award was ripped away and replaced with a random mount.

In your OPINION. Orcs ride wolves. They always have. That's why so many wolf mounts. As to the boars. *shudders* I think they're rather ugly, but they do look rather orcish as well. it was an orc expansion. (Not a HORDE expansion). You had dozens of choices. If you don't like something (I don't like the boars) then... don't ride um. lol. Don't go to the effort to get um. It's that simple.

Equeon wrote:

In addition, there is an actual dearth of unique new mounts in WoD.

In Pandaria, the new ingame models we got were Cloud Serpents, Phoenixes, Kites, Mushan, a Waterstrider, a Flying Disc, a Pterodactyl, a Thunderbird, Direhorns, a Sky Golem, and a badass Worg.
Non-new models were still pretty unique overall, with Armored Tigers, an Amber Scorpion and a Robot Scorpion, among others.

In Warlords of Draenor, the new ingame models we got were Clefthooves, Gronnlings, a Suncrow, a Yeti, an Iron Sky Golem, a Corehound (special event) and a Skyreaver.
Non-new models were mostly just one of five creatures: boars, elekks, talbuks, riverbeasts, and wolves. The animations of most of these are generally atrocious.

12 kinds of mounts, often in many colors.... *shrugs* if you don't find something you like, that's kinda on you. You sound like you're whining now.

Equeon wrote:
Boars, until a recent hotfix, moved their legs at the speed of light. Talbuks' tails still move up and down in the most unnatural way. Riverbeasts also move ridiculously fast, and so do all but two of the new wolves.

The new meta reward? A GREEN WOLF. The AoTC reward? Nothing. How would this ever motivate me, a casual player, to try to down current content like the Kor'Kron worg might?

This is explained by the mistake Blizzard made with flying in WoD. They went from "We're releasing it later in the expansion" to "We're not going to do flying" to "HOLY CRAP YOU'RE RIOTING! WE'LL DO FLYING GEEZEEE!!"

The green wolf (Which I love, and am upset I can't get) Started off as the mount from tannan. The fel raven thing was the raid meta. But when they switched to "No flying' They flipped them around. I was looking FORWARD To my green wolf mount. I want it sooooo bad. But they flipped it and put it in the game the other way, so they weren't giving a flying mount as a raid meta in a expansion you can't fly in. lol.

Then the players (PAYERS) Rioted and they had to change their minds, but it was already in the game 'flipped'. So that's how it is now.

Equeon wrote:

Had this new philosophy on mounts been implemented earlier, I would expect the Life-Binder's Handmaiden and Thunder Pterodactyl to be store mounts, and an additional Flying Kunchong mount to be available for $30. It's a real shame.

The influx of new store mounts is sacrificing both quality and quantity of mounts actually available in-game. With the Moose mount revealed, I dread that this trend will continue well into the next expansion, if not for the rest of the game's lifetime.

It sacrifices nothing in game.

Nothing. There's HUNDREDS of mounts in the game that arn't store mounts.

What it really boils down to. If we're being really honest....

Is that some people are cheep, and don't want to pay for the snazzy mount, so they bitch and moan they don't get it for free.

There's 11 store mounts guys. Don't like um? Don't buy um. Think they're too expensive? (Fair.) Don't buy um.

Don't act like you're ripped off that you ONLY have 290+ mounts to choose from and the 11 that you're too cheep to pony up for, aren't free too.

Qraljar wrote:
Sorry for being so entitled that I think paying 50 bucks (for half an expansion compared to previous ones even) + 12+ bucks a month entitles me to the ability to get a mount from the Arakkoa Exiles that isn't a Talbuk recolour. When do Arakkoa even use Talbuks?

That IS entitlement personified. "I paid for the basic expansion and my subscription, but I want the special mounts TOO, because I don't like this one mount and think the other one is better".

If you want it so bad, pay for it. if not. Don't. If the expansion is too expensive for you, don't buy it. Noone's putting a gun to your head. You can stop at any time.

you -want- to play? Then as an adult you have the same choice as anyone does anywehre when they're looking at entertainment. "Is this entertainment worth the price they're charging for it"

If it is? Great. Pay it. If it's not. DON'T. You're not GUARANTEED any mounts. At all. Bliz could simply go "Ok we're done making new mounts. you have 300. Pick one of those. You're not garenteed 50 mounts per expansion. You're not guarenteed one. Be an adult. If you want something ask yourself if it's worth the money. If the answer is yes. Pay it. if the answer is 'no' then don't.

What you're doing cuts back to the foot ball tickets analogy I gave before.

You paid for your ticket in the nose bleed section. (Normal expansion and subscription) but you're now moaning about not being given access to the Skybox, that some people have paid more to use. Your logic is 'I bought a ticket. I should have it ALL" when other people chose to pay more for the better skybox. and you're pissed they don't let you in.

Guys and gals, by all means discuss with passion, but try to avoid any personally directed or aggressive posts, even if you may have to take the higher ground.

Thankyou.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:11 mounts in the store (Including the moose)

Over 300 mounts in the game.

No. Store mounts aren't replacing in game mounts, in availability or appearance.

There is a serious difference between quality and quantity. One Grinning Reaver or Armored Bloodwing is worth more than different shades of brown/green/yellow/orange riverbeasts.

Also, the majority of those mounts are from past expansions, where the balance between cool ingame mounts and cool store mounts has not been so off. Mists of Pandaria was the golden example of how to balance this. You had tons of great, unique mounts as well as pretty cool recolors available ingame. Then you had several options of attractive, unique store mounts.

It's when I have fifty goddamn boars, talbuks, and riverbeasts available instead of a more diverse spread that I start to get a sour taste in my mouth.

Pepsi Jedi wrote: So pay it. Or don't. Don't be cheep and then complain that you're not given everything you want. Again, these things aren't breaking the bank for anyone. If you -want one-.... -buy one-. You're not 'entitled' to anything in wow beyond the game. The bloodwing IS cool. I rather like mine. It was cool enough for me to spend the money to fly around on one. I was never entilted to it because I thought it'd be neat.

A new player would pay $10 for the base game, $50 for the expansion (the most expensive expansion to date), and then $15 per month. If this new player is still subscribed and playing the game, that would be $200 from WoD's release alone. Now consider the older players, who have remained subscribed for dozens more months and bought every expansion.

With these prices and a monthly subscription fee, it's not "being cheap" to not want to pay extra for acquiring a cool mount, the way you have been able to in a variety of ways since the Burning Crusade. That's the entire point of playing an MMORPG - you are constantly playing the role of a character and progressing that character in some way while interacting with others. For many people, a major progression goal culminates in earning a cool mount, not shelling out more money to instantly acquire one.

While there is no 'entitlement' clause in the terms of use such as "All players are entitled to 10 unique mounts per expansion", the experience of the past several expansions gives us a general idea of what to expect - again, see Mists of Pandaria, with so many great mount choices.

And when the reality falls far below that expectation, people are naturally disappointed.

Pepsi Jedi wrote: So you ASSUME. It could very well be, "We need 3 store mounts to release over the course of the next expansion. Lets tie them in with the game instead of having something completely random. Your ASSUMPTION That they're some how 'taken' from other places doesn't make it so.

If memory serves the Fae Dragon came out before WoD. I seem to remember toolin' around on the Timeless isle with mine, and the Dread Raven was the CE mount. Not a store mount at all. The OTHER raven mount, you could get through a faction in the game.

The Fae Dragon was released earlier, yes, but at that point WoD would have been in development for several months. I don't think it's a big leap to assume they designed the model for the expansion and released it earlier to tide over players impatient with the content drought.

Also, I don't think it's an assumption that these were "taken" from the reputations. While they may not have been literally removed from the reputation vendor and added to the store, then those mounts being reputation rewards are still a very obvious missed opportunity.

There are no NPCs that use any other store mount in the entire game, and yet the three I mentioned are the pets/guardians/mounts of three entire factions. Please, do not try to convince me that Blizzard designed Rylaks and Ravagers for the Blizzard Store before adding them into the world.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I'm glad it wasn't. That ugly ass thing is the only store mount I've not bought. It's hideous and looks stupid. But again, you're taking your personal preference, ascribing it as what 'should' be, and then proposing it as 'fact'. That doesn't make it so. The Skyreaver, just as likely could be like I said above. "Lets develop a mount for the store that encompasses the essence of WoD, so ANYONE can get it. Not just people that raid in the top 2%, or spend 20 hours grinding rep for ____ faction.

You're assuming it 'should be' something and then just deciding your right, then getting offended that it was 'taken' from your assumed place of prominance.

Yes, it's my personal opinion, but I'm giving an example. Obviously the raid meta award could've been the Flippityflop Jabberwock with a brand-new, never-before-seen model, but I gave the Iron Skyreaver as an example of what would have been more fitting. You're raiding the Iron Horde, here's an Iron Horde mount that you've commandeered.

As for your "ANYONE can get it" - that's what I disagree with. If they make a mount that "encompasses the essence of Warlords of Draenor", that should be obtained by playing the Warlords of Draenor. Mounts have always been exclusive. There are some that are easy to get - default faction mounts, the Bronze Drake - and some that are hard or tedious to get - Ashes of Al'ar, Heavenly Golden Serpent.

If you want new mounts with little effort, go for those easy ones. You can get 6 mounts from the level 1 stables in about 5 days. You can get 2 more from the level 3 stables in about three hours. That's not a competitive raiding or time-intensive requirement.

For those who take the time and effort to go for something harder, they should be rewarded with fancier mounts with unique models. You've got the Mythic Blackhand and Archimonde drops, the Solar Spirehawk, the Challenger's Yeti, and the Fel Raven (Though most who want the raven already have it by now. Oh, and the running and jumping animations have been broken since 6.2 hit.) Otherwise, nothing else fits this category. Every reputation only offers recolored versions of those "easy" stables mounts, instead of mounts that actually fit their theme.

Also, you're naturally going to the most extreme example ("raid in the top 2%, or spend 20 hours grinding rep") to help your argument. There are mounts that can (gasp) take effort to get without ruining your sanity, job, or love life. There are (gasp) difficulty levels in between "hand over the money and get it instantly" and "grind four difficulties of Hellfire Citadel for 72 hours a week."

There could be rare spawns with 3-10 hour timers, in addition to the 24-36 hour rares on live. There could be rare dungeon mount drops, or mounts rewarded from completing a certain dungeon challenge (like the Bronze Drake). There could be more entertaining daily challenges to acquire mounts, like the Order of the Cloud Serpent, or memorable storylines, like the Netherwing Drakes.

They are only now beginning to address WoD's failure in these aspects, with the addition of the Ironbound Wraithcharger as a reward from completing Timewalking dungeons. Perhaps it's because thousands of players have been bitching about the boars and wolves for eight months?

Pepsi Jedi wrote:In your OPINION. Orcs ride wolves. They always have. That's why so many wolf mounts. As to the boars. *shudders* I think they're rather ugly, but they do look rather orcish as well. it was an orc expansion. (Not a HORDE expansion).

It's not my opinion that the mounts are unfitting, when they clearly don't make any sense for the factions they're offered by and have zero in-game representation.
As for the "Orcs ride wolves... that's why there are so many of them...", that is a poor excuse for a lack of diversity.

Did orcs "always" ride chimeras and giant bugs before this expansion? Did Draenei "always" ride giant fey dragons?

Would it end the world to design new creatures for these factions if they're going to make the most obvious choices only available in the store?

Pepsi Jedi wrote:You had dozens of choices. If you don't like something (I don't like the boars) then... don't ride um.

Yeah, dozens of choices, from brown to gray to light gray to armored black to (OH MAN!) armored green.

Note that while every expansion has had multiple recolors of one mount, every one of those boars came from a different source. This wasn't the "boar reputation vendor" offering you all the boars - these were the achievements or rewards from five separate sources. Instead of a huge variety of mounts being offered across sources, you have the same tired ones stretched thin throughout one expansion and two content patches.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:lol. Don't go to the effort to get um. It's that simple.

Remember this quote if you ever wonder why the subscription numbers look like this.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:12 kinds of mounts, often in many colors.... *shrugs* if you don't find something you like, that's kinda on you. You sound like you're whining now.

I do have some WoD mounts I like. I like my Dread Raven, and my Armored Frostwolf, and the Core Hound is pretty cool too. But to say "12 kinds of mounts", counting a single Mythic drop as equally as eight different talbuks, is not really fair. Also, harsh criticism =/= whining.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:The green wolf (Which I love, and am upset I can't get) Started off as the mount from tannan. The fel raven thing was the raid meta. But when they switched to "No flying' They flipped them around. I was looking FORWARD To my green wolf mount. I want it sooooo bad. But they flipped it and put it in the game the other way, so they weren't giving a flying mount as a raid meta in a expansion you can't fly in. lol. Then the players (PAYERS) Rioted and they had to change their minds, but it was already in the game 'flipped'. So that's how it is now.

Not having flying is no excuse for such obviously broken animations. That's what happens when you slap a boar onto a direhorn skeleton and don't bother testing the running speed past the default NPC lumbering.

As cool as you think it is, the green wolf mount had existed in NPC form since the expansion started. It wasn't anything new or surprising, honestly. I'm sorry you won't be able to get it this expansion (Doing the achievements at 110 should be easy, though), but I just don't think it's a comparable reward at all to the Corrupted Firehawk, the Alextrasza mount, the Pterodactyl, or Galakras.

Pepsi Jedi wrote: It sacrifices nothing in game.

Nothing. There's HUNDREDS of mounts in the game that arn't store mounts.

Again, quality over quantity.

And it does sacrifice something - it sacrifices my ability to care about playing the game and achieving goals within that game. It sacrifices my desire to bother with Draenor reputations or raiding Ahead of the Curve. It sacrifices variety in rewards and in the mounts that players mill about in cities. It sacrifices players' tolerance of paid transactions in general, when they feel like something's been taken from them.

Pepsi Jedi wrote: What it really boils down to. If we're being really honest....

Is that some people are cheep, and don't want to pay for the snazzy mount, so they bitch and moan they don't get it for free.

There's 11 store mounts guys. Don't like um? Don't buy um. Think they're too expensive? (Fair.) Don't buy um.

Don't act like you're ripped off that you ONLY have 290+ mounts to choose from and the 11 that you're too cheep to pony up for, aren't free too.

This is hilariously insulting. I actually laughed out loud when I read this. "If you want cool mounts, but don't want to pay for them, you're a cheapskate. That is all."

You argue that people like me are entitled, expecting unique mounts after paying for the game on its own. I'd argue that you are entitled, expecting mounts that exceed prestigious raid rewards in appearance and polish just for paying for an additional transaction. Neither side is really in the right just from these simplified points, but your last argument is definitely pretty offensive.

Thank you, Equeon, for wording that way better than I ever could. I had a feeling I wasn't gunna stay civil with those insults that were bring thrown. But you wrote everything I was thinking with finesse heh.

I've been playing since TBC, I've invested thousands of dollars into this game over those years. To say I feel entitled for some decent quality mounts in game is right. Btw, the compare to football seating doesn't fly cause you're not paying a monthly sub as well to see the game.

very well said Equeon. And i applaud you for taking the higher ground in your response. Same to you Overdrive. I also found the football analogy to be rather disconnected as well.

I'm not going to quote lines and such but just to say no one here is 'defending' the store, we just understand that it is what it is. At the end of the day they aren't obliged to give you ANYTHING. The game could give you cat mounts for the next 6 expansions and you'd either play or you didn't. Thats it. It doesn't matter what you feel entitled to get or what you think they should do - at the end of the day they run a company for profit. If flashy store mounts make lots of money then they will continue to be what they are. If you don't like that - don't buy them. Let your wallet show your displeasure. Thats all you can do.

Reality is, like wain said, this isn't a mount collecting game. We choose to do that portion of the game ourselves. They really had no obligation to give us anything outside of our faction mounts. Perhaps just be happy we get access to the amazing things we do get.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:11 mounts in the store (Including the moose)

Over 300 mounts in the game.

No. Store mounts aren't replacing in game mounts, in availability or appearance.

There is a serious difference between quality and quantity. One Grinning Reaver or Armored Bloodwing is worth more than different shades of brown/green/yellow/orange riverbeasts.

Unless you really like riverbeasts and don't like bugs. Your -opinion- on what is pleasing isn't universal. It's your tastes. Other people could have the exact oppisite opinion. They could love the riverbeasts. Some people like Hippos. I think the Riverbeasts are kinda neat. Not my fave, but I love the wolves. The point being is that -you- singular might not like the mounts they put in, but they're appealing to literal millions. Not "Equeon's taste preferences"

Equeon wrote:
Also, the majority of those mounts are from past expansions, where the balance between cool ingame mounts and cool store mounts has not been so off. Mists of Pandaria was the golden example of how to balance this. You had tons of great, unique mounts as well as pretty cool recolors available ingame. Then you had several options of attractive, unique store mounts.

It's when I have fifty goddamn boars, talbuks, and riverbeasts available instead of a more diverse spread that I start to get a sour taste in my mouth.

And some people like what you don't. My wife loves talbuks. I think they're pretty fun. I had no problem with them or the recolors. Why talbuks? Because we're on Draenor and that's where they're from. *shrugs* Again it's back to them not appealing to your personal taste. Remember you're one of over five million players. Your personal opinion on what looks cool, is ... one in over five million. I.E pretty small. Expecting them to cater to your personal preference is silly.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote: So pay it. Or don't. Don't be cheep and then complain that you're not given everything you want. Again, these things aren't breaking the bank for anyone. If you -want one-.... -buy one-. You're not 'entitled' to anything in wow beyond the game. The bloodwing IS cool. I rather like mine. It was cool enough for me to spend the money to fly around on one. I was never entilted to it because I thought it'd be neat.

A new player would pay $10 for the base game, $50 for the expansion (the most expensive expansion to date), and then $15 per month. If this new player is still subscribed and playing the game, that would be $200 from WoD's release alone. Now consider the older players, who have remained subscribed for dozens more months and bought every expansion.

They've PLAYED For months and months and months. You forget that aspect of it. It's not like they get the game and don't do anything once they've bought it. (Although they could if they wanted) The $15 a month is to play the game. .50 a day. *nods* That's great value for entertainment. You can't even rent a movie that cheep. sure if you add up years and years of play it looks dramatic but that's purposefully ignoring you get unlimited play and 50 character slots for that subscription fee. UNLIMITED play during that time. You could play 24/7 (Baring maintenance) if you want to.

Equeon wrote:
With these prices and a monthly subscription fee, it's not "being cheap" to not want to pay extra for acquiring a cool mount,

Sure it is. If you can't afford the 50 cents a day for your subscription, then you need a cheeper hobby. Library cards are normally free. I'd suggest that. Or standard TV if you can get it. Cable costs alot more. Wow subscriptions are some of the cheepest forms of entertainment out there for the return.

Seriously, if you can afford internet and the HUUUGE price of 50 cents a day for your wow, you can afford a mount if you want to buy one. They're not hugely expensive. They're more than I 'want' to pay, but not so much that I can't afford it if I want one.

It's a priority thing. Do you think the item is worth it. It's not prohibitavily expensive. If you can pay 180 a year for a subscription $20 ain't gonna kill ya.

Equeon wrote: the way you have been able to in a variety of ways since the Burning Crusade. That's the entire point of playing an MMORPG - you are constantly playing the role of a character and progressing that character in some way while interacting with others. For many people, a major progression goal culminates in earning a cool mount, not shelling out more money to instantly acquire one.

So go do so. There's at least 290 mounts you can do that with. You are not entitled to -anything- you want in the game -how ever you want it- ANy more than I am or anyone else is.

Equeon wrote:

While there is no 'entitlement' clause in the terms of use such as "All players are entitled to 10 unique mounts per expansion", the experience of the past several expansions gives us a general idea of what to expect - again, see Mists of Pandaria, with so many great mount choices.

Expansions are different. Content is different. Your expectations are your own but are based off -your assumptions-. Which in the grand total of things, mean nothing. At the very best you're one in over five million. At the worse, less than that. When you make statements like 'So many great mount choices" you're adding in personal preference to something. Which is always different. Some people hate bugs and would never ride the reaver that you like so much. Some people like Hippos and love the riverbeasts you hate.

When you base things off of personal preference as you're doing, but try and make it out like it's fact, you're really only voicing your personal preference and nothing more.

Equeon wrote:

And when the reality falls far below that expectation, people are naturally disappointed.

No. -You- are dissapointed. I'm fine with the mounts of the patch (Save the one instance of switcharoo I mentioned). I think they're fun. I love the wolves. Ride um all the time.

I ride my Reaver and my purple kitty too.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote: So you ASSUME. It could very well be, "We need 3 store mounts to release over the course of the next expansion. Lets tie them in with the game instead of having something completely random. Your ASSUMPTION That they're some how 'taken' from other places doesn't make it so.

If memory serves the Fae Dragon came out before WoD. I seem to remember toolin' around on the Timeless isle with mine, and the Dread Raven was the CE mount. Not a store mount at all. The OTHER raven mount, you could get through a faction in the game.

The Fae Dragon was released earlier, yes, but at that point WoD would have been in development for several months. I don't think it's a big leap to assume they designed the model for the expansion and released it earlier to tide over players impatient with the content drought.

But it is. Those things take a while to put together. You don't work for blizzard. You're making another -unfounded assumption- with out fact to back it up.

Equeon wrote:

Also, I don't think it's an assumption that these were "taken" from the reputations.

With out fact to back it up, that's all it is. An assumption. One that's not universally held.

Equeon wrote: While they may not have been literally removed from the reputation vendor and added to the store, then those mounts being reputation rewards are still a very obvious missed opportunity.

Not really. They're making money off them, when if they did them your way they wouldn't and they'd just be in the game along with the other 290+. If you want one of the store mounts. Save up some lunch money and buy one.

Equeon wrote:
There are no NPCs that use any other store mount in the entire game, and yet the three I mentioned are the pets/guardians/mounts of three entire factions. Please, do not try to convince me that Blizzard designed Rylaks and Ravagers for the Blizzard Store before adding them into the world.

It doesn't matter when they did it. They did it the way they wanted and you're left, as an adult, to decide if they're worth the price to pay. (And again, You can get a Rylak in the game. I have.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I'm glad it wasn't. That ugly ass thing is the only store mount I've not bought. It's hideous and looks stupid. But again, you're taking your personal preference, ascribing it as what 'should' be, and then proposing it as 'fact'. That doesn't make it so. The Skyreaver, just as likely could be like I said above. "Lets develop a mount for the store that encompasses the essence of WoD, so ANYONE can get it. Not just people that raid in the top 2%, or spend 20 hours grinding rep for ____ faction.

You're assuming it 'should be' something and then just deciding your right, then getting offended that it was 'taken' from your assumed place of prominance.

Yes, it's my personal opinion, but I'm giving an example.

But you're getting offended that your personal opinion isn't held by all, and your assumptions are not bore out, and then complaining about it as if you're some how entitled to get everything you want.

Equeon wrote:
Obviously the raid meta award could've been the Flippityflop Jabberwock with a brand-new, never-before-seen model, but I gave the Iron Skyreaver as an example of what would have been more fitting. You're raiding the Iron Horde, here's an Iron Horde mount that you've commandeered.

You do realize the iron horde in Tannan ride the green wolves right? So by your own definition, they've done exactly what you say they should do. You might not have played out there to notice, but they ride um all over the place.

Equeon wrote:

As for your "ANYONE can get it" - that's what I disagree with. If they make a mount that "encompasses the essence of Warlords of Draenor", that should be obtained by playing the Warlords of Draenor.

Why? because you order it so? Anyone -can- get the store mounts. They don't have to be a top 2% raider or spend hours and hours grinding. They just have to decide to pay a small fee.

Equeon wrote: Mounts have always been exclusive. There are some that are easy to get - default faction mounts, the Bronze Drake - and some that are hard or tedious to get - Ashes of Al'ar, Heavenly Golden Serpent.

If you want new mounts with little effort, go for those easy ones.

Or buy one. It's REAL easy. Like three or four mouse clicks. If that.

Equeon wrote:

You can get 6 mounts from the level 1 stables in about 5 days. You can get 2 more from the level 3 stables in about three hours. That's not a competitive raiding or time-intensive requirement.

Your point being.. that there's alot of mounts in the game you can get? Aren't you making my points for me now?

Equeon wrote:
For those who take the time and effort to go for something harder, they should be rewarded with fancier mounts with unique models.

They generally -are-. Just not 'EVERY' mount. 11, out of 300+... come from the store. lol.

Equeon wrote:

You've got the Mythic Blackhand and Archimonde drops, the Solar Spirehawk, the Challenger's Yeti, and the Fel Raven (Though most who want the raven already have it by now. Oh, and the running and jumping animations have been broken since 6.2 hit.) Otherwise, nothing else fits this category. Every reputation only offers recolored versions of those "easy" stables mounts, instead of mounts that actually fit their theme.

They fit the theme just fine. You just don't personally like them. There's a difference. Your personal opinion, is not -fact-. Stop assuming that it is.

Equeon wrote:
Also, you're naturally going to the most extreme example ("raid in the top 2%, or spend 20 hours grinding rep") to help your argument. There are mounts that can (gasp) take effort to get without ruining your sanity, job, or love life. There are (gasp) difficulty levels in between "hand over the money and get it instantly" and "grind four difficulties of Hellfire Citadel for 72 hours a week."

Of course there are. There's 100s of mounts in the game. lol That's been my point all along.

Equeon wrote:
There could be rare spawns with 3-10 hour timers, in addition to the 24-36 hour rares on live. There could be rare dungeon mount drops, or mounts rewarded from completing a certain dungeon challenge (like the Bronze Drake). There could be more entertaining daily challenges to acquire mounts, like the Order of the Cloud Serpent, or memorable storylines, like the Netherwing Drakes.

They are only now beginning to address WoD's failure in these aspects, with the addition of the Ironbound Wraithcharger as a reward from completing Timewalking dungeons. Perhaps it's because thousands of players have been bitching about the boars and wolves for eight months?

Doubtful. More likely it was "Noone's really doing the timewalking dungeons. Lets put a carrot on the end of the stick" I've not heard anyone complain about the wolves but you. Now I don't talk to 1000s of people but everyone I know love the wolves.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:In your OPINION. Orcs ride wolves. They always have. That's why so many wolf mounts. As to the boars. *shudders* I think they're rather ugly, but they do look rather orcish as well. it was an orc expansion. (Not a HORDE expansion).

It's not my opinion that the mounts are unfitting,

Yes it is. That's ALL it is. It's not a 'fact' that they're unfitting. You FEEL they're unfitting. It's not a proven fact.

Equeon wrote: when they clearly don't make any sense for the factions they're offered by and have zero in-game representation.
As for the "Orcs ride wolves... that's why there are so many of them...", that is a poor excuse for a lack of diversity.

It's not a poor excuse, it's a simple explanation. They do ride wolves. Go play the game and see. Orc's be ridin' wolves all over the place. They're very popular. Tons of wolves in the game. People love um.

Equeon wrote:

Did orcs "always" ride chimeras and giant bugs before this expansion? Did Draenei "always" ride giant fey dragons?

On dreaenor they may have. We don't 'know' we just got here this expansion. The ones in outland rode talbuks too.

Equeon wrote:

Would it end the world to design new creatures for these factions if they're going to make the most obvious choices only available in the store?

It's a video game. Nothing in it is the end of the world. You're still complaining about personal preference not being met or up to your expectation. No facts

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:You had dozens of choices. If you don't like something (I don't like the boars) then... don't ride um.

Yeah, dozens of choices, from brown to gray to light gray to armored black to (OH MAN!) armored green.

Note that while every expansion has had multiple recolors of one mount, every one of those boars came from a different source. This wasn't the "boar reputation vendor" offering you all the boars - these were the achievements or rewards from five separate sources. Instead of a huge variety of mounts being offered across sources, you have the same tired ones stretched thin throughout one expansion and two content patches.

This may come as a surprise to you, but there's more mounts in this expansion than just the boars you hate. I've got bunches. Boars, Wolves, Talbuks, Riverbeasts. Dozens and dozens of different mounts. You're fixated man.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:lol. Don't go to the effort to get um. It's that simple.

Remember this quote if you ever wonder why the subscription numbers look like this.

Subscription numbers aren't my problem. They're blizzards problem. I see no difference today than any other day. The game is getting old man. Subscription numbers are going down because even with the new innovation and changes, people have been playing the game for years and years and people meander off. Some 'grow up'. some get jobs or just change in their lives. The numbers have very little to do with mount colors. Cuz lets be honest. If you not getting the exact mount you want, the way you wanted it, has you leaving the game. You were going to leave the game anyway and that's just an excuse.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:12 kinds of mounts, often in many colors.... *shrugs* if you don't find something you like, that's kinda on you. You sound like you're whining now.

I do have some WoD mounts I like. I like my Dread Raven, and my Armored Frostwolf, and the Core Hound is pretty cool too. But to say "12 kinds of mounts", counting a single Mythic drop as equally as eight different talbuks, is not really fair. Also, harsh criticism =/= whining.

There WERE that many different ones weren't they? Often in multiple colors?

And no. "Whining' is Whining. It's not harsh criticism. I've got a baby. I know it when I hear it. *Grins*

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:The green wolf (Which I love, and am upset I can't get) Started off as the mount from tannan. The fel raven thing was the raid meta. But when they switched to "No flying' They flipped them around. I was looking FORWARD To my green wolf mount. I want it sooooo bad. But they flipped it and put it in the game the other way, so they weren't giving a flying mount as a raid meta in a expansion you can't fly in. lol. Then the players (PAYERS) Rioted and they had to change their minds, but it was already in the game 'flipped'. So that's how it is now.

Not having flying is no excuse for such obviously broken animations.

*Pauses and looks around* So now we're not talking about mounts and store mounts but you not liking the animations, which was totally not the point anyone was making? The heck??

Equeon wrote:
That's what happens when you slap a boar onto a direhorn skeleton and don't bother testing the running speed past the default NPC lumbering.

I for one thought the fast pigs were funny. Didn't make me like um more but it didn't bother me at all.

Equeon wrote:
As cool as you think it is, the green wolf mount had existed in NPC form since the expansion started. It wasn't anything new or surprising, honestly.

I wasn't saying it was new or surprising. I said I LIKED It. I WANTED it. I thought it was cool. I now can't get it, so.. meh, but that's how it goes sometimes. I wish they hand't had the 'Flying debockle' but they did and I ended up not getting the mount I wanted (green wolf) and got a bird I could care less about instead. But that's MY personal preference. My preferenes matter exactly as much as yours. I.e. 1:5000000+ Not much at all.

Equeon wrote:
I'm sorry you won't be able to get it this expansion (Doing the achievements at 110 should be easy, though)

Yeah. Me too. It's a bummer. I have the pet. It'd have looked totally meta to be a green orc on a green wolf with a green hunter pet wolf and a green wolf puppy running all at once.

Equeon wrote:
, but I just don't think it's a comparable reward at all to the Corrupted Firehawk, the Alextrasza mount, the Pterodactyl, or Galakras.

I do. I totally like the green wolf more than any of those. Heck all of those put together. But that's my personal preference.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote: It sacrifices nothing in game.

Nothing. There's HUNDREDS of mounts in the game that arn't store mounts.

Again, quality over quantity.

Quality is an expression of personal opinion. One that yours, is not universally held. I like most of the store mounts. Not all. And one or two I dislike. I hate the rylak thing. Didn't buy it. I bought the heart of the aspects but ugg. Riding it is a pain. It bobs around too much and takes up too much screen.

*shrugs* Still. You're trying to imply your personal preference should trump all.

Ask yourself this. If they put crappy mounts in the store. Who'd buy them? lol

Equeon wrote:

And it does sacrifice something - it sacrifices my ability to care about playing the game and achieving goals within that game.

Then don't play. Quit. Save your money. Spend it on something else.
Honestly if you can't get those 11 out of 300+ mounts and that 'Sacrifices your ability to care about playing the game" then god. Why are you playing anyway? lol It's absurd. It's silly, but honestly. You're an adult. (Presumeably). If not being able to get that one mount with out paying for it sacrifices your ability to care about the game..... lol

Seriously. That's just funny. If you're that fragile the internet might not be for you. It's absurd. And there's some mean people out there. I'm not even being mean. I'm just calling people on sillyness.

Not getting store mounts for free Sacrifices your ability to care about playing the game? REALLY?? Come on. At the very least that's hyperbolic sillyness.

Equeon wrote:
It sacrifices my desire to bother with Draenor reputations or raiding Ahead of the Curve.

Then don't do um. You don't have to. It's a game. there's 1000 other things you could do. Do something that you enjoy instead.
I mean this honestly and with no humor. Why on earth would you desire to do things you don't wanna do, if they don't have pay offs that would make you wanna do um. Do something else. This is supposed to be your entertainment man.

But remember. Your desire is your own, and them not giving you the mount you want doesn't sacrifice it. You're talking about a 'Desire to grind rep'. Really? You had a desire to grind rep before?

Equeon wrote:
It sacrifices variety in rewards and in the mounts that players mill about in cities.

The variety is there. Just because you refuse to pay for a store mount doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I buy them (most of them) So you'll still see them in cities. You'll just have to marvel at my majestic moose when I ride by.

MOOSE!!

Equeon wrote: It sacrifices players' tolerance of paid transactions in general, when they feel like something's been taken from them.

Nothing's been taken from you as you're not entitled to anything of that nature.

As for 'player's tolerance for paid transations in general' They're a business Equeon. Do you think they'd do these mounts for one minute (or one mount) Longer than it's profitable? No. As soon as it's no longer profitable, they're gong to stop.

They sell the store mounts and make money. People like them. *Raises hand* Most of the people in this thread liked um and are happy to pay for a moose. You're not. That's fine. Don't buy it. But player tolerance for paid transactions are just fine. The moose will sell fine. If nothing else people love for them here shows that.

Equeon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote: What it really boils down to. If we're being really honest....

Is that some people are cheep, and don't want to pay for the snazzy mount, so they bitch and moan they don't get it for free.

There's 11 store mounts guys. Don't like um? Don't buy um. Think they're too expensive? (Fair.) Don't buy um.

Don't act like you're ripped off that you ONLY have 290+ mounts to choose from and the 11 that you're too cheep to pony up for, aren't free too.

This is hilariously insulting.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Equeon wrote: I actually laughed out loud when I read this. "If you want cool mounts, but don't want to pay for them, you're a cheapskate. That is all."

Not quite what I said, but the rest of your posts indicates that it could fit. Yes. You want them all for free and are offended you're not getting the one you like for free. You think paying for them is bad, and don't want to pay the minimal fee.

Equeon wrote:

You argue that people like me are entitled,

No. I point out your posts SHOW that you feel entitled. There's a difference. I've pointed it out quite clearly. You DO think you're entitled. You've agreed you were a few times.

Equeon wrote: expecting unique mounts after paying for the game on its own. I'd argue that you are entitled, expecting mounts that exceed prestigious raid rewards in appearance and polish just for paying for an additional transaction.

LOL ahhhh if only you COULD flip it like that.

Notice the difference? I'm not DEMANDING all the cool mounts be store mounts so I could buy them. I'm not complainng that other mounts aren't store mounts so I could buy them. I don't say that Such and such mount should be a store mount so I can buy it. (Though I WOULD buy the green wolf if it was.)

There's a difference between 'If there's a store mount, and I like it, I'll buy it"

and "I think they should all be store mounts so we can buy which ever one's we want!" or "I should be allowed to buy which ever cool mount in the game in the store"

Entitlement is not the word you're looking for there.

I don't expect any mounts in the store. I look at what happens to pop up and make a choice on my own preferences. I have a few store mounts but i have 100s that aren't.

Equeon wrote: Neither side is really in the right just from these simplified points, but your last argument is definitely pretty offensive.

No.. One is people thinking they're entitled to what they want, based on their personal preference and not wanting to pay extra.

The other is just laughing. Enjoying the game, getting the mounts that they want and are fine.

As a small side note, it wouldn't be offensive if you didn't feel it fit to you. If it was purely absurd, you wouldn't be offended. You'd just laugh.

I'm one of the weird people that don't really care if others get offended. I don't TRY to offend them. I try and be nice. Because it's nice to be nice. But if I stopped talking anytime someone said "I'm OFFENDED" I'd never talk. This is the internet. If you're so easily offended, you're in the wrong place.

And that's not being mean. That's a simple observation. people are going to have different viewpoints than yours. Accept it. Because of you get offended. Noone cares. It's not going to change the viewpoint of the person who offended you. It hurts them not at all. Just you.

Diversity is a great thing. An amazing thing. Different view points are AWESOME. If we all agreed life would be so boring. But seriously, getting offended about a mount you buy in the blizz store... you gotta have better things in life man. You can't let little things sweat ya.

I know I chimed in a tad on the store mount/in game mount discussion but...isn't it going a little too far now? This thread is supposed to about new mounts, right? Maybe it's because I feel extremely uncomfortable now since my finances are being belittled :/ 50 cents a day adds up for me. When college consumes thousands of dollars that I don't have and I have to pay for interest/rent/food/etc, yeah, 15 dollars a month is a lot for a form of entertainment for me, especially since I don't pay for any other form, I sacrificed them to play this game. I also feel like the argument isn't being understood. It became about what mounts should be in the store, not whether or not there should be mounts in the store, so stop arguing that there are 300+ more mounts in the game you can obtain when that's not even what they're saying. They were saying that the placement of mounts was done poorly in the game and the store mounts should be more like the new purple kitty which doesn't fit anywhere in the game and less like the moose which can be placed perfectly in game.

Moving on...

I AM IN LOVE WITH THE CE MOUNT! My lock is spec'd specifically so that she can always have her felpup by her side and now my baby can have a whole family!

So I've split this topic off from the New Mounts discussion in the Legion forum.

It's a worthwhile discussion to have and I didn't want to kill it. However I've placed a note in the first post and will reiterate here: avoid any personal attacks or characterization of people who disagree with you or I'll have to moderate. This will make me grumpy as this forum usually requires very little in the way of serious moderation

Apologies if the thread has any disconnected patches. I tried to tease this topic apart from the other and I think it worked OK. If you notice any posts that should be moved either way please report it.

I'm bloody poor. I grind/save gold for my subs now.
Can't afford a mount, Don't get the mount. Oh well, I'll just get over it.
but I can understand the frustration of seeing a cool mount that seems to fit in with a zone or faction, being added in a real-life currency only option.
But ultimately, if someone wants it bad enough, they will probably buy it?
I know I sacrificed a bit, and saved up for the runesaber.


But they make money from the mounts. Hopefully more money means more content.


There are good unique mount in the game. Invincible. Onyxian Drake. Mimiron's Head. Etc.

There are a lot of nice mounts in game that are recolours too.

The shops mounts are pretty, and unique. Some have been now used by NPC.

That make 'em worth less? Maybe.

Who knows. Maybe they could add an option that, if a mount has been released for a long period (1+ Years), they could be purchase by gold sums, like WoW tokens. Going by the current exchange rate maybe 75k a mount or more.

It might make both parties a little more content

Equeon wrote: ...
Fey Dragon - Council of Exarchs
Grinning Reaver - Laughing Skull
Dread Raven - Arakkoa Outcasts
...

It doesn't seem like they had established Fey Dragons as Draenei mounts and then added them to the store, since they're described as being from the Emerald Dream. It feels more like they were adopted for Draenei mounts after the artwork was already made, with little effort put in making them feel like part of Draenor. Wild rylaks are everywhere, wild fey dragons are in one grove plopped out of the way in SMV.

Personally, I would have liked to see story (and wingless models) connecting them to warpstalkers. And that goes (tangentally) to the anti-store mount argument that I think actually has merit*. That if something is in the store, you're less likely to see other versions of it obtainable elsewhere.
But the Dread Raven and Rylak from 6.2 might mean that's changing. So perhaps there will be a ground mount moose that's not all glammed up. Maybe there will be 11 recolors of mundane moose.

Elekk from Council of Exarchs was entirely fitting.
Wolf for Laughing Skull wasn't. It didn't even have a skull faceguard. I quit a "the pit" group when I looked up the mount reward for exalted. Shattari Defense gets an Iron Horde Elekk. An Iron Horde wolf would have brought parity. Anything with a skull faceguard would have fit.
Talbuk for Arrakoa was odd too. There's not even talbuks in spires of arakk. Even a much-maligned boar would be a better fit. They added a Dread Raven for order of the awakened though. And if it came down to whether this was a mount or a pet:

I'd go for a pet. I'm exalted with both Outcasts and Awakened, where's the taming skill book?

Scarlet wrote: ...
Who knows. Maybe they could add an option that, if a mount has been released for a long period (1+ Years), they could be purchase by gold sums, like WoW tokens. Going by the current exchange rate maybe 75k a mount or more.
...

Tokens redeemable for Battle.net balance would mean there was one more step in using them for game time, but I think it'd be worth it. Of course, the chorus of "pay to win" and "blizz is just greedy" would redouble.

*Sorry, I think the "wolf or boar or go to the store" argument has no merit, no matter how often it's made. I guess the more accurate "wolf or boar or elekk or clefthoof or riverbeast or talbuk or waterstrider or carpet or gronnling or spirehawk or firehawk or voidtalon or kodo or mechanostrider or drake or yeti or ram or raptor or motorcycle (or dread raven or robot suit or rylak, counting 6.2, or cloud serpent or dragonhawk or ghost horse counting 6.2.2) or go to the store" would kind of make the argument self-defeating.

Scarlet wrote: Who knows. Maybe they could add an option that, if a mount has been released for a long period (1+ Years), they could be purchase by gold sums, like WoW tokens. Going by the current exchange rate maybe 75k a mount or more.

It might make both parties a little more content

They kind of did do this with the BMAH, but I personably think it was suited to a very specific wow player. To start with the 1st few time Invincible came up it was a 999 999 999 buy out (along with many others)
This kind of vendor caters for AH stalkers and Gold Cappers, and those that like to play wow like a Corperate Banking Game. These can be pretty ruthless and leave little chance to those even with 1/2 that amount of gold, which is still a rediculous sum.

The idea of old raid mounts being a a bit cheaper as suggested would be a good idea imo, not exactly sure the best way to add them, maybe via a Buyout Vendor near the BMAH? Other permanently removed mounts (Zg raptor, Zg tiger, Plauged Proto, etc.) are think are ok for the BMAH they are not as common and fit a "black market" theme (though id love them reintroduced somehow) but the BMAH suits them for now. They could also eventually add in other removed mounts. (Early Vanilla Epic mounts, crusader mounts, etc.)

Failing that, they cold just have the BMAH have more mounts up/appear in general? That way all th cashed up AH Players can coff up all their large chunks of gold on the 1st few they want, then after a while they may end up being more available/affordable.

SpiritBinder wrote: The idea of old raid mounts being a a bit cheaper as suggested would be a good idea imo, not exactly sure the best way to add them, maybe via a Buyout Vendor near the BMAH? Other permanently removed mounts (Zg raptor, Zg tiger, Plauged Proto, etc.) are think are ok for the BMAH they are not as common and fit a "black market" theme (though id love them reintroduced somehow) but the BMAH suits them for now. They could also eventually add in other removed mounts. (Early Vanilla Epic mounts, crusader mounts, etc.)

The idea of a vendor seems good - maybe with some rep associated with it so people still had to work for these mounts. Does anyone remember the fabled tiger mount vendor from vanilla? It was originally in a cave in beta and you could still wall hack to the cave (it was in stranglethorn) in live - there were many rumors that if you went and waited a vendor would spawn when the spotted leopard mount was outside gadgetzan etc etc. I managed to get there (was a fun adventure!) but alas no vendor maybe something along those lines with a puzzle. Or if you had the original zandar rep to exalted you can go buy the tiger/raptor, argent dawn rep can buy the horse etc. Things that would still be hard/impossible to get now to keep it challenging. Just my thoughts

Xota wrote:Sorry, I think the "wolf or boar or go to the store" argument has no merit, no matter how often it's made. I guess the more accurate "wolf or boar or elekk or clefthoof or riverbeast or talbuk or waterstrider or carpet or gronnling or spirehawk or firehawk or voidtalon or kodo or mechanostrider or drake or yeti or ram or raptor or motorcycle (or dread raven or robot suit or rylak, counting 6.2, or cloud serpent or dragonhawk or ghost horse counting 6.2.2) or go to the store" would kind of make the argument self-defeating.

That sounds really nice until you realize that most of those unique mounts are either recolors left over from MoP or older, or absurdly rare, or implemented very recently/not yet implemented (as you pointed out). Also, counting both faction's PvP mounts in one list is sort of cheating.

I had a super long post responding to Pepsi Jedi's post, and he didn't feel like responding in turn once again (which I thought was smart, I was already sick of the whole thing). So if it really comes to it again, I can always copy my points from there.

But for now, I'll just summarize my overall problems with this expansion's approach to mounts. In no particular order:

Lack of diversity in mounts and mount sources
While the mount diversity in WoD is not as heinous as some might make it out to be, a major and common complaint is how spread out the same types of mounts are.
We had a pool of six types of animals:

Boar, Clefthoof, Elekk, Riverbeast, Talbuk, Wolf

These were the majority of the expansion's mounts across all sources: achievements, reputations, rare drops, the Stables, Invasions. How is this different from previous expansions? With the exception of the "obligatory new dragon type" (Proto-Drake, Storm/Wind Drake, Cloud Serpent), nearly all recolors of one mount were available from one source. You get exalted with the Skyguard, you get all the Nether Rays. You get exalted with the Shado-Pan, you get all the tigers. You get exalted with the Grummles, you get all the goats and the yaks. You get the idea. You receive the mounts from these factions because they are associated with each other. Each color type of these non-dragon mounts are offered as a choice of personal preference, not as completely separate rewards.

Imagine if the WoD treatment was applied to these expansions. Yes, there are no less than six types of "new" mounts in WoD, but would it be as thrilling to get exalted with the Klaxxi and receive a goat? You've finally finished the Dominance Offensive campaign in Krasarang... here's a tiger. The dungeon meta achieve? Another goat, but this time it's brown instead of grey. Not only does it not make sense thematically, it's boring and feels like the content is being "stretched thin" across all these separate areas of reward.
And don't forget that there are no non-Mythic raid mount drops. (No Flametalon of Alysrazor, Chromatic Drake, Heavenly Cloud Serpent, Ji-Kun Bird, Spawn of Horridon, etc. equivalents.)
As well as no dungeon mount drops. (See examples from every expansion up until Mists).

Aside from the Gronnlings and the Spirehawk, this expansion's truly unique mounts are only available through PvPing at a high level or PvEing at the highest level. This isn't just about what options collectors have - it stagnates potential player motivation and shortens content. In past expansions, you had reason to run recent but now-outdated raid tiers, or run/solo dungeons, or gain reputation, for the worthwhile mounts they rewarded.
What happens when players don't have motivation to do anything but garrisons and the current raid tier?
They quit.

6.2's Fel Raven, Skyterror, and the unimplemented Timewalking mounts feel like "damage control" in this aspect.


Poor mount quality
"Your complaints about diversity aren't justified," you might say. "We got six types of common mounts ON TOP OF the unique mounts like the Spirehawk or the Gronnlings, you said it yourself."

While this may be true, the quality and polish of those mounts was overall pretty sub-par. Here are the mount problems that existed on release:

Boars' run animations are way too fast.
Riverbeasts' run animations are way too fast.
Wolves' run animations are way too fast.
Most clefthooves do not make any sounds when they run, but do produce one or two seconds of awkward thuds only when jumping.
Talbuks' tails flop up and down as one solid unit, as if made out of styrofoam.

Every mount type except the Elekk had some sort of issue with it. Note that of these six new types of mounts, none have new skeletons, and only three are new models (boars, riverbeasts, and clefthooves). It's painfully obvious that the Boars are "slapped onto" the Direhorn skeleton when you press Spacebar, only to watch it thump its nonexistent spiked tail on the ground and rear up, looking like the boar equivalent of twerking. At least in the past when mounts reused skeletons (Proto-Drakes -> Firehawks) the animations still looked fine.

The boar and some wolf run animations were only hotfixed in the most recent patch. All the other problems still exist. Yes, maybe you "don't mind" or it "never really bothered you", but I know that none of these issues are intended and only exist as a negative. I don't think anyone's complaining that their boars' legs no longer move so fast they literally blur together.

Making cool new mounts for the store is one thing... but can the more humble mounts at least be free of bugs and sloppy animation cycles?



Mounts that easily fit as ingame rewards are instead offered in the store
I got into this debate with Pepsi Jedi. Whether it's the chicken or the egg side of the debate, it doesn't matter.

Faerie Dragons I agree were kind of shoehorned in. It's quite possible they were created for the store and added into Draenor afterwards.

However, Chimeras and Ravagers both existed on Outland. With the exception of the Nether Rays (which came after Draenor's explosion), every single beast from Outland is present on Draenor, and I can bet you that these creatures were going to show up no matter what. So it seems more likely that these were creatures, if not NPC mounts first, and then store mounts.

But again, it doesn't matter which came first. What matters is these are relevant and "realistic" mounts seen in the game, offered only in the store.

I've said it so many times - The Mystic Runesaber is the perfect example of what a store mount should be. It's a flying, rune-covered cat made of arcane energy. It doesn't exist in game and it's not mentioned in the lore, and never will be.

Up until the Armored Bloodwing, all store mounts followed this formula. Their flashy appearances were enough to attract buyers, not tie-ins to existing content that are found in the new expansion. That's what the Collector's Edition bonus content is for - and that's one mount or pet intended to be an exclusive, limited reward. After that, all expansion-relevant content is earned by playing the game - not paying the game an additional fee.

But that formula wasn't enough. How do you get more players to buy the store mounts? Make them relevant to the game itself. You want to be like your Draenei or Laughing Skull allied factions, or ride around on the Iron Horde's flying mounts? That'll be $25.


To use a stupid analogy, it's like every year we go to buy a cake with a certain amount of chocolate and other filling inside. If you want even tastier cake, you can get icing for an additional price. That's what the store mounts are - icing on the cake.

Then after several years, this year's cake rolls around.
"25% less calories!", it boasts, despite also being 25% smaller and $10 more expensive.
Though the icing is still available for purchase, so are a few other fillings and accessories - strawberries, or sprinkles - that used to be included for free.

You even notice that the napkins and silverware included with the purchase, which used to be very high-quality, are now cheap bargain variety. The chocolate sauce and "new delicious ingredients" boasted at CakeCon are nowhere to be found - they didn't make the cuts.
Many of your friends are displeased with the presentation and turn around on the spot. Others take a few bites and soon leave the reception. Most of those remaining dig into their cakes at first, only to find after a few minutes that the cake has gotten stale.

"You should be happy we still have nuts in the cake," says one satisfied diner. "Let alone cake at all. If you really want those strawberries, they're not that expensive."

The mass exodus of guests speaks for itself.


Was the push towards the "icing on the cake" the main reason for disappointment? No, perhaps not - but it's just one of many issues with this expansion - and solving them won't exactly be a piece of cake, either.