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Just curious if anyone else testing BM took pretty much all the focus-regen talents. I haven't had too much trouble keeping up a relatively consistent rotation as a result.

(I'm probably one of the few who doesn't miss the shots with cast times either, so I expect to be in the minority here.)

Kalliope wrote:Just curious if anyone else testing BM took pretty much all the focus-regen talents. I haven't had too much trouble keeping up a relatively consistent rotation as a result.

(I'm probably one of the few who doesn't miss the shots with cast times either, so I expect to be in the minority here.)

I haven't tried it, but I'll give it a shot tomorrow after I test Monks (I've already tested Druids and Warlocks, omg, Demonology has cool stuff we could have similarly in BM spec (the 'summon dreadstalkers' for one!!) D:). MoonMoon and Dabear is gonna get a work out XD

Because I love everyone so much (and totally not because I'm testing for my own benefit XD) I tried out the BM in totally focus-regen talents.

It actually isn't near as bad this way, however you do lose Dire Frenzy (which isn't too much of a loss really). But, for a smart move, go and pick up chimera shot, it helps and gives another shot.

In all, I ended up with Beastial Wrath, Dire Beast, Cobra Shot, Kill Command, multishot, Chimera shot, and Barrage. Along with Counterstrike, Misdirect, Wyvern sting. With this and the focus regen abilities I was doing okay in the focus range and had another shot to help. But it just felt like I wasn't get a real test with just asking the round circle to duel.

So, I decided I would battle through WoD beginning all over (because I made a pre-made) and then enter Tanaan Jungle to test in a real setting of hostiles, ALOT of hostiles. I swam the whole way there too, see my dedication? XD

Anyways, so I continued fighting through the masses, and I did okay, but I noticed how bashed around I got, after fighting on 4 warlocks at lv 100, I got killed. Note, in live, I slaughter these guys pretty easy. So I thought first, maybe it was my armor? But pre-mades come with all 680 item level stuff. Not the highest stuff, but enough that I should be doing relatively well without loosing so much health.

This again makes me push that if you wanna stay BM through Legion, BULK UP. Because we're so heavily reliant on the artifact too, you'll need some high end stuff to keep yourself safe while soloing. I will say the rotation doesn't require much thought, the main thought process is: 'What is not on CD? Okay shoot it.' It's, I hate to say it, boring. But I haven't tried the other specs in this setting, so I will refrain from totally dissing it yet. I will update in alittle once the realms are back up XD

13thmaiden wrote:Because I love everyone so much (and totally not because I'm testing for my own benefit XD) I tried out the BM in totally focus-regen talents.

It actually isn't near as bad this way, however you do lose Dire Frenzy (which isn't too much of a loss really). But, for a smart move, go and pick up chimera shot, it helps and gives another shot.

In all, I ended up with Beastial Wrath, Dire Beast, Cobra Shot, (shot I forgot the name of), multishot, Chimera shot, and Barrage. Along with Counterstrike, Misdirect, Wyvern sting. With this and the focus regen abilities I was doing okay in the focus range and had another shot to help. But it just felt like I wasn't get a real test with just asking the round circle to duel.

Aahh, I'm glad I'm not alone on the chimera shot front! Having that one extra shot + bit of focus regen makes a huge difference for me.

BTW, for reference, here's what I'm rolling with:
[*]706 ilevel
[*]Way of the Cobra (one of the non-focus regen choices)
[*]Chimera Shot
[*]doesn't matter for these purposes, but Posthaste
[*]Bestial Fury
[*]doesn't matter, but Wyvern Sting
[*]Barrage
[*]Stampede

I'd like to field test, but my game keeps crashing every time I try to reach Tanaan. -_-

The whole "whack-a-mole" mentality for a spec reminds me of marks in earlier expansions. No wonder I kinda like it myself. >_>

Kalliope wrote:Aahh, I'm glad I'm not alone on the chimera shot front! Having that one extra shot + bit of focus regen makes a huge difference for me.

BTW, for reference, here's what I'm rolling with:
[*]706 ilevel
[*]Way of the Cobra (one of the non-focus regen choices)
[*]Chimera Shot
[*]doesn't matter for these purposes, but Posthaste
[*]Bestial Fury
[*]doesn't matter, but Wyvern Sting
[*]Barrage
[*]Stampede

I'd like to field test, but my game keeps crashing every time I try to reach Tanaan. -_-

The whole "whack-a-mole" mentality for a spec reminds me of marks in earlier expansions. No wonder I kinda like it myself. >_>

I have 2 different things on that, I went with was Dire Stable instead of Cobra, because you'll be pressing Dire Beast alot, which means you generate about 8 focus each time you hit it. 'Way of the Cobra' really only becomes better choice when you get Hati, because then you have 20% normal and plus dire beast you get 30% damage. Which means for about....8 second you're 30% dmg up, where as before titanstrike, you're 20% for 8 secs. Where as if you go with Dire Stable, instead of 20 focus regen, you get 28, which is pretty good considering you're banging on that button every time it opens XD That's not to say it's not a good choice! I just prefer the focus jump until I can get max damage run which I'd need the artifact for.

The second different I had was I chose Aspect of the Beast instead of Stampede. Yeah I know, everyone is like '*GASP*' right now, but hear me out. The damage being done by stampede isn't as great as it was before, because it's pretty much alot like the battle pet attack, where if the animal strikes the target is when it gives damage. One of the reasons I didn't like what they did to our Stampede, probably the shittiest change I've seen in awhile. But Aspect of the Beast actually gives a sense of the pets 'abilities' back. And Tenacity and Ferocity both are a nice bump for them. Granted it's only 6 secs, but it's better than nothing at all. I also like Killer Cobra, which has a 25% chance of resetting your kill command every time you shoot your cobra shot, which can be really helpful!!! Between the two I went with Aspect, but I do like Killer cobra even if it's only 1/4 chance.

Only talent I disagree with you that I did chose: Wyvern sting. OMG, guys YOU NEED THIS SHOT. Without traps and stuff like we had before, Wyvern sting has the longest effect time of 30 secs! 30 secs of a sleeping animal you're trying to tame vs the possibility of stunning an attacker/animal for 5 secs IF they go over the circle they're tethered to with Blinding shot, and intimidation only last 5 secs. I'm going 30 secs for any tame first as it takes about....1 minute for us to tame, meaning half of the tame it's sleeping and not attacking and knocking you out of tame.

And yeeeeees Chimera shot is awesome! People are gonna be like 'But Dire Frenzy does 33 focus when you hit it!' Yeah, which is nice, for a CD that's 13.6 secs long. However, Chimera shot adds another shot to your rotation AND for each target it hits, it generates 10 focus, and it's CD is only 8.19 secs. 5.41 secs FASTER than Dire Frenzy. If you went and put Dire Stable on instead of Way of Cobra, your Dire Beast gives you 28 focus rather than 20 meaning you only lose 5 focus by going with Chimera Shot, which then can add to about 30 focus itself (though it's usually 20, but I have seen it hit 2 additional targets instead of just 1.)

With your 706 ilvl you should be doing pretty good in Tanaan and not getting bashed as much as I am, like I said, most everyone who wants to keep doing BM, focus on FOCUS and bulking up your armor. Since I haven't tested with Titanstrike, you'll have to ask the others in Beta how it handled with this build.

And I managed to get to Tanaan and test some, and then suddenly when I was trying to leave Tanaan to go to the garrison, it trapped my tester and pretty much killed my hunter XD I had to make a new one. So I have a MoonMoon again and now a hyena Ed. I'm gonna see if I can hit up for some shale spider and see how that works. Or a turtle XD;;

((And I'm kinda okay that my first hunter tester was killed, as it reset all my rotations so I don't have any dead keys staring at me XD AND I made a very sexy Draenei male who I can now watch running Eheheheheh.....))

13thmaiden wrote:I have 2 different things on that, I went with was Dire Stable instead of Cobra, because you'll be pressing Dire Beast alot, which means you generate about 8 focus each time you hit it. 'Way of the Cobra' really only becomes better choice when you get Hati, because then you have 20% normal and plus dire beast you get 30% damage. Which means for about....8 second you're 30% dmg up, where as before titanstrike, you're 20% for 8 secs. Where as if you go with Dire Stable, instead of 20 focus regen, you get 28, which is pretty good considering you're banging on that button every time it opens XD That's not to say it's not a good choice! I just prefer the focus jump until I can get max damage run which I'd need the artifact for.

Ha, yes! I was rather planning ahead with that one. I'll probably go with Dire Stable on live when the time comes, just to make sure I have enough focus early on. Cobra is more for endgame boosts.

13thmaiden wrote:The second different I had was I chose Aspect of the Beast instead of Stampede. Yeah I know, everyone is like '*GASP*' right now, but hear me out. The damage being done by stampede isn't as great as it was before, because it's pretty much alot like the battle pet attack, where if the animal strikes the target is when it gives damage. One of the reasons I didn't like what they did to our Stampede, probably the shittiest change I've seen in awhile. But Aspect of the Beast actually gives a sense of the pets 'abilities' back. And Tenacity and Ferocity both are a nice bump for them. Granted it's only 6 secs, but it's better than nothing at all. I also like Killer Cobra, which has a 25% chance of resetting your kill command every time you shoot your cobra shot, which can be really helpful!!! Between the two I went with Aspect, but I do like Killer cobra even if it's only 1/4 chance.

I like Aspect of the Beast from a PvE aspect, since the effects will add up over time. I opted for Stampede on the grounds that I want to hang onto a bit of burst for PvP.

13thmaiden wrote:Only talent I disagree with you that I did chose: Wyvern sting. OMG, guys YOU NEED THIS SHOT. Without traps and stuff like we had before, Wyvern sting has the longest effect time of 30 secs! 30 secs of a sleeping animal you're trying to tame vs the possibility of stunning an attacker/animal for 5 secs IF they go over the circle they're tethered to with Blinding shot, and intimidation only last 5 secs. I'm going 30 secs for any tame first as it takes about....1 minute for us to tame, meaning half of the tame it's sleeping and not attacking and knocking you out of tame.

This is true! I haven't been running around on the PTR needing to CC anything, so I haven't really missed traps yet. Still, there are other situations in which the other two talents are useful. (AoE stuns on Binding Shot, long distance stuns outside your range but within your pet's with Intimidate.)

13thmaiden wrote:And yeeeeees Chimera shot is awesome! People are gonna be like 'But Dire Frenzy does 33 focus when you hit it!' Yeah, which is nice, for a CD that's 13.6 secs long. However, Chimera shot adds another shot to your rotation AND for each target it hits, it generates 10 focus, and it's CD is only 8.19 secs. 5.41 secs FASTER than Dire Frenzy. If you went and put Dire Stable on instead of Way of Cobra, your Dire Beast gives you 28 focus rather than 20 meaning you only lose 5 focus by going with Chimera Shot, which then can add to about 30 focus itself (though it's usually 20, but I have seen it hit 2 additional targets instead of just 1.)

The regen on Chimera Shot is indeed lower than Dire Frenzy's, but it's WHEN you get that focus back that's the key difference. Chimera tends to be off cooldown just when I'm at the point of having nothing left. This shot right here is why I'm able to keep up a better rotation. Good call on the Dire Stable buff; that's enough to convince me to swap now! That should account for the extra bit of focus I'd like to have on hand just in case.

What I really ought to do is copy over Kallimon and see what a difference gear makes (he's at 661). [Insert edit here.] Okay yeah, so that broke the rotation. It's an old story that some specs simply require gear to pull off. It's like marks used to be back in early Wrath. Everyone was going survival - partly because explosive shot was ridiculous at the time, but also because more gear was needed to pull off marks. The numbers shift on a patch by patch basis, so if we're on the low side at launch, I'm not going to be overly worried.

^I can see Stampede for PvP bursts yeah. I typically focus mostly on PvE since I'm one of those 'filthy casuals' everyone bemoans XD. I do alright in PvP but it's just not my thing.

As for The Wyvern sting, the others I see as better for large groups or dungeons/raids and PvP. But if you want a taming shot since we lost our traps, Wyvern sting is the one to go with, that's why I stand by it for myself! Right now I haven't had a need for intimdate and blinding shot just yet, but when I get to dungeons or taking on big groups, I'll probably switch to one of them.

Also, PTR patch has dropped and now is allowing people to go into the instances against the legion and up to where Daralan goes warp-jumping. (Also, spoilers, but omg, Jaina, Genn, seriously! Gul'dan is NOT part of the Horde thank you very much. Learn who to be angry at! I get you're salty after the crap done to you by Garrosh/Syl, but seriously, don't blame us for THIS!!) though word of warning, after the jump I fell from 'daralan' into Kaz castle, effectively dying, because they haven't patched that far yet. XD It does give you a look see to see how you do against a large number of enemies (so....many....enemies.... @A@) Like so many enemies you have no idea where you are because the screen is covered in demon butt, legs, swords, green goo and fire everywhere, EXPLOSIONS!!!!

Oh the hype. Even if BM was pretty much raped on it's abilities, so far I'm all like 'SQUEEEEEE' for this x-pac. Much hype, such excite, Wow, do want!!

In any case you should be able to try out a couple instances for your rotation, definitely helps over having to fight Tanaan crashing.

Oh, something I should also add, ALWAYS have your exhilaration on one of your bars above your key bar, it seriously saved me after taking on alot of enemies and I was down to half health.

13thmaiden wrote:And yeeeeees Chimera shot is awesome! People are gonna be like 'But Dire Frenzy does 33 focus when you hit it!' Yeah, which is nice, for a CD that's 13.6 secs long. However, Chimera shot adds another shot to your rotation AND for each target it hits, it generates 10 focus, and it's CD is only 8.19 secs. 5.41 secs FASTER than Dire Frenzy. If you went and put Dire Stable on instead of Way of Cobra, your Dire Beast gives you 28 focus rather than 20 meaning you only lose 5 focus by going with Chimera Shot, which then can add to about 30 focus itself (though it's usually 20, but I have seen it hit 2 additional targets instead of just 1.)

Just a side note, Dire Stable affects Dire Frenzy too, so without it Dire Frenzy is just 25 focus gain.

Ok, right away I see the most serious problem here, and it's that serious problem that Blizzard tried to do away with a few years ago.

"Cookie cutter specs".

It seems that Blizzard has returned BM hunters to the "must have X talents to be functional" routine.

Sukurachi wrote:Ok, right away I see the most serious problem here, and it's that serious problem that Blizzard tried to do away with a few years ago.

"Cookie cutter specs".

It seems that Blizzard has returned BM hunters to the "must have X talents to be functional" routine.

For the moment! From what alpha/beta testers have said, BM in particular has been built around the artifact, which I believe we get early on. Balance is always done for the endgame, not the old max level. It'll be cookie cutter specs for a little while, but then everything will balance out. And if our numbers are low even at 110 with gear (as also reported), then there will (hopefully) be tweaks made.

Shinryu Masaki wrote:
Just a side note, Dire Stable affects Dire Frenzy too, so without it Dire Frenzy is just 25 focus gain.

Yeah I was calculating with Dire Stable on Sorry about that XD;;

Kalliope wrote:

Sukurachi wrote:Ok, right away I see the most serious problem here, and it's that serious problem that Blizzard tried to do away with a few years ago.

"Cookie cutter specs".

It seems that Blizzard has returned BM hunters to the "must have X talents to be functional" routine.

For the moment! From what alpha/beta testers have said, BM in particular has been built around the artifact, which I believe we get early on. Balance is always done for the endgame, not the old max level. It'll be cookie cutter specs for a little while, but then everything will balance out. And if our numbers are low even at 110 with gear (as also reported), then there will (hopefully) be tweaks made.

Considering I haven't done past the warp of Daralan, I'm studying from the starting perspective, because I wanted to know what we'd have to do to survive before we got the artifact, even though we get it pretty early, it still takes a bit to reach it so if someone wanted to stay a BM. It was mostly a test to see if we could be viable after Kalliope brought up the focus-regen build since the addition of Chimera shot made the rotation more sustainable. Numberwise we're still pretty low compared to the other two but with that build if you really want to stay BM you can. It's kinda cookie cutter, but once you get the artifact you can make changes and shifts around, though I personally will be keeping Chimera shot to keep the rotation without being stuck on all CDs. You'll need to ask the Beta/alpha testers who have tested the artifact and their particular builds after using the artifact.

My tests are mostly to find good rotations and which talents can make for better numbers for the beginning for each spec. The Focus-regen build here for BM actually has some variations in it, some people might go with Dire Frenzy for example instead of Chimera shot (If you rather take the CD time to hit heal on your pet instead of using another shot), and you can decide between blinding shot or intimidate for your battling needs, where as I say wyvern is best to use for taming purposes or to stop another target from attacking us like we use to use ice trap for. It's not total cookie cutter and there are gonna be more tweaks after drop I bet, and by endgame we'll be semi-balanced atleast. I'm hoping XD

I'll be testing Survivalist next since well, I wanna see if I can do melee in that insane mass of bodies XD;; I'll report my findings on what builds you can try for it and my personal favorite build.

*yawns* Welp, I made a blood elf male, named him Gastonan and made him my guinea pig for Survival. And I must say it went pretty well.

First things first, you're pretty much now the rogue of the forest, remember that. The game play is very similar to what I remember on playing with rogues, only with a honking huge polearm and a pet. Nevertheless your usual movement is pretty much similar to a rogue's, stay behind the big bosses and focus on the CCs. I dunno if it was because of just how the huge swaths of area that some of the demons can cast or I'm just not fast enough to jump out of them (could be both considering I died two damn times trying to cross those stupid hailing green meteors.)

The set up I went with kept me pretty well set with focus, though there were a few times I could have used more, but the regen time was fast enough that these were pretty few and far between.

There also seems to be a few good builds among the talents, of which I call: Wannabe BM, Trapper, and Mongoose. Trapper furthermore breaks down into Expert Trapper and Bomber and Mongoose splits between Wild Mongoose and Kamaitachi.

I stuck with the Mongoose, choosing what I call the Kamaitachi build.

Kamaitachi is as follows:

-Way of the Mok'Nathal - Raptor strike (your main focus dump) increases you 3% attack power, stacking 4 times.
-Improvized Traps - reduces cooldowns of your traps
-Posthaste - Your harpoon frees you from moving imparments and 60% speed boost for 8 secs
-Mortal Wounds - Lacerate has 2% chance of gaining Mongoose bite (another main focus dump, you have 3)
-Camo - Pretty much camo of the WoD
-Serpent Sting* - 15 sec of 21485 nature damage every time you hit a target raptor strike or carve
-Spitting Cobra - 30 sec of a cobra spitting dmg at your target and as long as it's up you regen 3 focus each second (90 focus if the snake stays up whole time)

*This one I technically classify as Wild Mongoose, but I wanted to test it out against Butchery and since Butchery replaces Carve and makes it a 13.5 cooldown, I stuck with Serpent Sting. The builds are pretty flexible like that.

Kamaitachi's main focus is to rip the ever loving shit out of your opponents, doing high dmg fast before they can whittle your health down. Personally with SV being with you flying through the air after harpooning something, I think your best choice in pets is to go with Ferocity since they have Dash and can keep up with you on the first strike.

Wild Mongoose is very similar except you trade out:
Snake Hunter - Instantly grants you 3 charges of Mongoose bite.

Wild Mongoose is a high dmg going quick but its more of a Solo type since the Snake Hunter is a 1 minute cooldown and meant for fast regen of Mongoose bite in case of emergencies. I can probably do just as well in dungeon and groups, but since I was mashing laceration so much it just made it seem to regen charges faster. You can switch between butchery and serpent sting, as in the two builds it's the most flexible and see which works the best for you. Either way you're still in the Mongoose build.

Next is the Trapper builds of Expert Trapper and Bomber. Y'all gonna love bomber. Biggest thing is the trapper builds is your focus on traps and slowing things down in various ways, usually causing damage to them with said traps. It's definitely more of a CC build, so I don't really advise it for Soloing, but if you want to give it a shot, go for it! I'd also see it good as a PvP spec as it focuses heavily on slowing your opponent down and adding extra effects while you slice and dice them and your pet bites their butt.

Bomber:

-First talent doesn't matter, but I'd go with either Animal Instincts or Way of the Mok'Nathal
-Second talent actually doesn't matter! amazing right? Personally I say go with Caltrops as it adds another trap to your group, but all 3 are good choices.
-Posthaste or Farstrider are the best choices in this case, don't do Dash, it's not worth it.
-This one is flexible as well, and yes, I do believe Murder of Crows works even on trapped individuals, just remember that can break them out of some traps.
-For bomber build, you want either Sticky Bombs or Camo, your choice.
-Dragonsfire Grenade.
-Expert Trapper - This is the one you want if you're focusing on a trapper build as it bulks up the dmg of your traps, all of them.

Expert Trapper:
-trade out Sticky bombs with Ranger's net, choose between it or Camo.


Lastly is the Wannabe BM. So you wanted to keep Camo and traps which were taken from us BMs? Well that's okay, SV has you covered!!

Wannabe BM:

-Animal Instincts - depending on what spec your pet is you get a buff.
-Improved Traps - Yay for 15% less CD on freezing trap!
-Your choice
-Murder of Crows - Because you loved those crows.
-Camo - Well duh.
-Serpent Sting or Butchery, your choice.
-Aspect of the Beast or Spitting Cobra, your choice again.

Wannabe BMs focus more of their dmg into their pets than their own attacks, which is actually pretty good because of the passive SV has with their pet, Hunting Companion, which gives the pet's attacks about 9.4% of giving an extra charge of Mongoose bite. It can work pretty well for soloing, possibly in parties, I've not checked with this build.


Personally I like the Mongoose build when working with SV myself, but I could easily change to Wannabe BM. There's no real extensively rigid formula of talents, this is mostly me maximizing on different focuses for a build before the artifact. Since SV isn't as heavily tied, this could last you awhile, so they're worth trying out to find out which works the best for you.

*yawns again* Okay, I'm going to bed now *snore*

*stretch* well, since no-one has said anything about my SV review, I'm gonna hold off on my MM review unless there's a general interest in it.

I'm interested! I haven't messed with surv/marks as much, so I just don't have anything to add.

^^ well atleast someone's interested, I'll run MM, see how it is and review. Though I do wish some other people would give their own criticisms and thoughts of my reviews XD I'm weird like that.

I'll have to free up some time and mess with marks/survival some more so I can weigh in. I was just really determined to make BM work after so many people posted and said it didn't. (I also really suspected it was partially a gear issue and it seems I was correct.)

I have a BM hunter at 110 in the Beta and I don't have any issues with pulling 4+ mobs and surviving and being able to down them relatively quickly. My dps isn't the highest, and I'm sure compared to many other dps classes that I am much lower, but I think all the doom-and-gloom about BM has been exaggerated a bit. No, it isn't the best. No, it isn't the same as it is in WoD. But no, it isn't unplayable or terrible.

I've been wondering if using Aspect of the Beast and speccing the pet Tenacity would help solve the squishy-ness of our pets. Seems like I see a lot of people taking Stampede just for the raw damage it does. AotB is still a 15% reduced damage for the cooldown duration of Kill Command, so that might help. And personally I really don't like the new Stampede, the 30 yards range is a lie since it's actually 25 yards in front of you and 5 yards behind you, and it's pretty much only worth it if you're on a Patchwerk style fight, which has very little chance of happening.

Shinryu Masaki wrote:I've been wondering if using Aspect of the Beast and speccing the pet Tenacity would help solve the squishy-ness of our pets. Seems like I see a lot of people taking Stampede just for the raw damage it does. AotB is still a 15% reduced damage for the cooldown duration of Kill Command, so that might help. And personally I really don't like the new Stampede, the 30 yards range is a lie since it's actually 25 yards in front of you and 5 yards behind you, and it's pretty much only worth it if you're on a Patchwerk style fight, which has very little chance of happening.

Hm, I'll go give it a lookie-loo, I haven't tested my MM yet, so I'll change it over to BM and try it with my gnome to see if that works. I'll report my findings. *snortgiggle* Tenacity Robo-sheep, why the heck not? XD

I still gotta do MM too XD;; Has anyone else tried it?

I've dabbled to get the feel of the spec. Its hard to cast any final judgment until numbers are tuned. I need to get recount or skada on beta.

As for the feel, I'm not a huge fan of MM's ramp with stacking vulnerable up, but I've never been a fan of ramp up specs to begin with. I've always liked burst specs that even out.