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Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:42 pm
by peanutbuttercup
Krysteena wrote:Graphic design, however, is not a reward. It shouldn't be reserved for those who level up near to max in order to experience a game that looks as good as it's shown to. New players that come into the game shouldn't be met with choppy graphics, poor designs and some awful looking trees for nostalgia they haven't experienced. I shouldn't need to get to a certain level in a game for it to actually look good.
That being said, I do understand why players are upset about some of the changes. Blizzard are cutting out major details for some (the new Nightsabers are missing their stripes, for one) and their idea of white has become a 'eh, it'll do' deal. A lot of these updates aren't faithful to the old looks when they need to be, as to not alienate older players. I would be very upset to log onto a favoured character and find that a pet of mine was suddenly hugely different to what I remembered because those memories it had would jar against the new shiny look, so I'm not saying you're wrong for being upset or hurt by these changes. However, a new player deserves the same graphic experience as you do because, at this point, I'm willing to wager that one of the reasons some new players aren't sticking around is because of how jarring the old zones and models are in comparison to the new ones.
Graphic design also isn't an excuse for poor gameplay and glitches. If I were a new player I would be turned off by the fact that since BfA launch my pet can't path to target because of a stair step or a tree root. I have to start every raid and dungeon boss with pet dismissed, that's how bad it is. So rather than fix what actually ails the game, update graphics because new players are quitting because of someone's outdated pet rather than because of gameplay issues?
It's not even as simple as this one pet, even though that's what I'm fighting to save. My characters aren't the characters I made in vanilla, and they promised to let players chose to use old graphics if they wanted, and then took it away without mention. First it was the elves, then they took away the option all together. My tauren hasn't taken off his helm since they forced the new model toggle on.
New isn't better. Look at the hyenas, bears, tauren. They're completely cartoony and don't match the spirit of many other newer models. Sure they're more smoothly rendered but how is it less jarring to have a game that's about war and conflict yet featuring 25% cartoons?
And I apologize if I'm coming across as combative. Judging by the posts most people love the new model and I'm the only hold out. I was going to make a plea on the official forums but it looks like there's no point in even trying. But I had quit before and came back, specifically, because I missed playing with my tallstrider. So now it's being taken away, permanently.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:02 pm
by Thwip
Gitches/Bugs are not an argument against visual updates. That's two entirely different parts of the department working on those two things. And what was originally brought up was visual changes.
I doubt new players are quitting because the graphics in the old zones are outdated, BUT it does factor in to many things. It's like going back to playing an old Playstation game you hadn't touched in decades after playing something new like Destiny 2. It's jarring. And when most players spend their time, now, in the new updated zones it's very jarring to go back to old zones and see models from 2004 walking around. It does have an impact.
I'm also in the usually non-vocal minority on this forum, I feel. I have enjoyed ALL the updates. Not all the color schemes have been perfect, but the models are amazing updates. And quite frankly, this Tallstrider update has been one of the most faithful so far outside of the additional scales on the wings/body (Which are new and look awesome.) and lack of orange on the turquoise. (Not a hard fix either. Could just add a belly layer on it.) Also, the entire game is cartoony. It's been cartoony. They're just refining their style because they can now. I play it, because I love how cartoony it is.
We're not in Vanilla anymore, Dorthy.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:16 pm
by Valnaaros
I've also been very fond of the updated models. Yes, they could do better with the colors to better match the originals, but the new models are far better than the old 2004 models. And it is quite obvious that Blizz is wanting to move away from old things and make everything fresh and new. Never before have they made such a great effort to update models; they started it in Legion, but really started pushing it in BfA.
And, honestly, WoW's art design is generally cartoony. It's been that way since the beginning.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:07 pm
by Krysteena
Thwip basically hit the nail on the head for me with that response - the newer expansions look amazing and the old ones do not. Some models still do hold well but the majority don't. WoW cannot look like it used to in 2004 for the sake of nostalgia. It needs to update as competing games also improve in order to not get left behind and even adding a toggle might be a bit of an ask at this rate. Penultimately, the game cannot thrive off of nostalgia alone, but I wonder if, were all the updated models much more faithful to their originals, this wouldn't be such a problem. Or maybe it would, idk :')
And, like Thwip said, the cartoony style is just WoW. That's it. The game isn't supposed to look super realistic. I would love to see a super realistic WoW with dragons and wolves and Orcs that look as they do in the cinematics, mind you, but it would fry every computer everywhere and that's also off topic
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:32 pm
by Equeon
peanutbuttercup wrote:New isn't better. Look at the hyenas, bears, tauren. They're completely cartoony and don't match the spirit of many other newer models. Sure they're more smoothly rendered but how is it less jarring to have a game that's about war and conflict yet featuring 25% cartoons?
This is a conscious design choice that several other popular games, such as League of Legends, are making or have made in the past. The goal is to have a slightly more cartoonish look that is not as realistic or high definition. As a result, such a stylized design choice means that all these models will not look outdated in two years.
I think you will have much more support by shifting your argument to be less about "stop upgrading old models" and more about "keep the new models faithful to the originals".
I think it's disgraceful to completely change color schemes, such as the orange belly of the blue tallstrider. That's not upgrading, that's downright changing the creature's appearance and identity.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:12 pm
by Vephriel
The cartoonish style is what, in my opinion, has made WoW age so well.
Realism will always age, but giving the game a unique style lasts for a long time. And like others have said, Warcraft has always had that sort of cartoonish style, and it fits it well.
I think for people who are invested in the original look of the game, then the Classic will be perfect for them to revisit while the main game continues to update.
And I agree with Equeon, being faithful to the original colours is something I feel should be more of a focus. I hope they'll choose to listen. <3
(deleted)
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:25 pm
by Slapperfish
(deleted)
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:33 pm
by Teigan
I do think that presenting a unified front to fine-tune the upgrades would be a better use of time and energy. The upgrades going to happen. They need to happen. What we can do is petition for things like orange tallstrider bellies and black wingtips on Zaricotl. And we can do so nicely, because even if the artists seem to be overlooking important details that gave an animal it's charm, they work hard and do good work.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm
by sasrei7
Thing is it is an update to the nightsabers which aren't old at all, I mean the classic cats are the ones that need the update, and the lions as well. The nightsabers are pretty new..
I uh do really like the tallstriders but umm where are all the feathers? They kind of look like plucked chickens lol
I will tame one, and will name it Plucky lol
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:04 pm
by Vephriel
sasrei7 wrote:Thing is it is an update to the nightsabers which aren't old at all, I mean the classic cats are the ones that need the update, and the lions as well. The nightsabers are pretty new..
I uh do really like the tallstriders but umm where are all the feathers? They kind of look like plucked chickens lol
I will tame one, and will name it Plucky lol
To me they've always looked like they had skin more than feathers.
Their 'manes' seem to have a gradient that turns into feathers, but the rest of their body has quite a leathery looking appearance in my opinion, like the hide of a kodo.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:08 pm
by Lisaara
sasrei7 wrote:Thing is it is an update to the nightsabers which aren't old at all, I mean the classic cats are the ones that need the update, and the lions as well. The nightsabers are pretty new..
I uh do really like the tallstriders but umm where are all the feathers? They kind of look like plucked chickens lol
I will tame one, and will name it Plucky lol
Nightsabers are old cat models, fyi. They've been around since vanilla.
The oldest cat model is the lynx and I wish they'd update those.
And as Veph said, Tallstriders never had a lot of feathers. They were always mostly nekkid.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:13 pm
by Thwip
Scandalous Nekkid Chickens.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:19 pm
by Lisaara
Thwip wrote:Scandalous Nekkid Chickens.
Pretty much! X3
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:25 pm
by Zoruaronan
If any models need to be revamped its the old boar model. Now yes its an ok looking model for its time but it looks like trash now if anyone needs a revamp its ether the boars or old crocolisk. some others include parrots,monkeys,coyotes,foxes and serpents.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:34 pm
by Lisaara
ZoroarkRonan wrote:If any models need to be revamped its the old boar model. Now yes its an ok looking model for its time but it looks like trash now if anyone needs a revamp its ether the boars or old crocolisk. some others include parrots,monkeys,coyotes,foxes and serpents.
Yes please. The boars are so neglected. Please fix boars.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:26 pm
by Wain
Tallstrider covering: to me the originals always looked velvety, like they were coated in light down. The new ones look like leather. But it's in keeping with their new art philosophy of everything looking harder and more keratinous and less rich in colour, like everything came from Draenor. I like the new model, but the updates are pretty consistent with other updates - in being more drab than the originals.
I'm not convinced the new nightsaber is meant as a replacement for the original tiger model. Is there any evidence for that yet? Only one of the colours released so far bears any resemblance to an original colour.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:46 pm
by Chaix
It's odd. there are mount versions that should mean that it's the larger saber model that's getting updated, but if it was there are a bunch of missing skins, most notably the ones for the more uique frostsabers but the tiger and leopard skins are missing as well. on the other hand the old box cats should probably should get an update since they are so numerous and spread across a lot of the lower level areas
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:50 pm
by Valnaaros
There isn't any evidence yet, but it's possible that not all of the colors made it in this build. Besides that, we saw in 8.0 that Blizz is, unfortunately, not too concerned about making sure the updated model's color matches the old one. We'll just have to wait and see.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:03 pm
by Lupis
I suspect the old boxy cats are taking so long to update specifically because there are so many skins with very different kinds of markings/gradients, and they're deeply beloved. With crabs or vultures, they could just slap new colors on the same skin over and over, but with cats they have a great deal of marking types and everyone on earth loves and uses them, so getting it right is very important. ...Or so I shall hope.
Personally (not that it matters terribly) I really love the new Tallstriders! I am definitely baffled at the lack of the orange belly on the aqua boy, as the purple one seems to pull off the gradient just fine- even the black one has that pink gradient. But we've seen more than a few oversights like this and hopefully we'll see changes, if they're still putting in updated models post-expac.
Re: 8.1 Beasts
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:15 pm
by Qraljar
Speaking of updates, I felt that if they were to do the Winterspring Frostsaber, it'd look pretty stunning, so I tried my hand at it.
