WoW Petopia Community

Saturo wrote:

Taluwen wrote:

Cerah wrote:Wrynn has some good points, especially his love for Auduin. After reading the comics, I can't really hate him, and I'm Horde!

Garrosh, on the other hand, has *no* redeeming qualities from what I've seen of him so far. He's just a bully with major Daddy Issues who's threatening to tear the Horde apart! I wish he had died at the Wrathgate instead of Saurfang Jr.

While I don't like Garrosh, I must point out you're wrong. Garrosh does have good in him.

When Cairne was killed and Garrosh found out who did, it, he avenged him by slaughtering the Grimtotems(who poisoned Cairne's drinks) which I commend him for because I loved Cairne. Ontop of that, the spar between him and Cairne was Cairne's challenge, not Garrosh's. Garrosh merely honored it and did not kill him(obviously). (Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Cairne#Cataclysm)

Also when one of Garrosh's lieutenants started slaughtering a village of innocent alliance people, Garrosh got PISSED and took the guy, threw him off the cliff and said "You are DISMISSED!" which is something I never expected. (Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Garrosh#Stonetal ... _Cataclysm)

So you see, he IS learning and from someone who despised him with every fiber of my being....I'm starting to respect him a little.

Now before anyone bashes Staghelm more....I must ask...do you guys who 'hate' him know the first thing about him?

All that is just plain retconning of his character tough. There were no signs of him learning anything, and for Blizz to go all "Let's make a character everyone will hate!", and then change their minds is just plain dumb. So far he's done nothing to atone for what he did in Northrend, for example.

Except he didn't really do anything in Northrend except snap at Saurfang. Saurfang is who played a major part in Northrend. And in toc, you cant hold him against that cause Varian did the same exact thing so the alliance is no better.

I hope some of you realize two things that made Staghelm the way he is...
1. His wife died giving birth to his son. So essentially, he was a single parent for many many many years.
2. His son got torn IN HALF right infront of him and the entire army of night elves at the Battle of Shifting Sands.

I dunno about you....but i'd become a bitter bastard after all that too.

Uhm... Didn't do much in Northrend? What would you call putting all those war mongerers in control, and then more or less directly order them to attack Alliance?

Saturo wrote:Uhm... Didn't do much in Northrend? What would you call putting all those war mongerers in control, and then more or less directly order them to attack Alliance?

He never directly told them to attack. So since that mostly points to ToC, thats nullified caused Varian does the same thing.

Also it was Thrall that put those guys in control. Garrosh just orders them around.

Taluwen wrote:

Saturo wrote:Uhm... Didn't do much in Northrend? What would you call putting all those war mongerers in control, and then more or less directly order them to attack Alliance?

He never directly told them to attack. So since that mostly points to ToC, thats nullified caused Varian does the same thing.

Also it was Thrall that put those guys in control. Garrosh just orders them around.

Weren't there references to Garrosh hand-picking the power-hungry officers like Agmar and Krenna?

Taluwen wrote:

Saturo wrote:Uhm... Didn't do much in Northrend? What would you call putting all those war mongerers in control, and then more or less directly order them to attack Alliance?

He never directly told them to attack. So since that mostly points to ToC, thats nullified caused Varian does the same thing.

Also it was Thrall that put those guys in control. Garrosh just orders them around.

If you have the misfortune to talk to most of the Orc npcs in positions of power in Northrend, most of them talk about Hellscream like he was God or something, and barely acknowledge Thrall and the rest of the Horde at all. One quest in particular comes to mind, out in Dragonblight near Icemist Village, where the Orc in charge of the base out there (I can't remember his name, or the base's) gives you a quest to motivate the Taunka refugees in a nearby camp into joining the Horde's cause. His text makes it sound like he sees the Taunka only as new recruits, not the more compasionate viewpoint you would expect a follower of Thrall to have.

The point is, under Thrall, the Horde was working towards mutual cooperation of all its races, all were valued. Look how Garrosh treats non-Orcs in contrast: He kicks all non-Orcs and non-Taurens out of central Orgrimmar, he disrespects Vol'jin and the trolls to the point where Vol'jin threatens to kill him, and considers having the Darkspears leave the Horde entirely, and even if he didn't outright kill Cairne, he did contribute to the circumstances surrounding his death. Nothing even close to that would happen under Thrall's leadership.

If Cerah's character wasn't tied into her being an Orc rp-wise, I'd race change her. Garrosh's recklessness and racism, for lack of a better term, is making me ashamed to be playing as a member of his species.

Aw, don't let an idiot like Garrosh take away your Orcish pride Cerah. Be proud of Thrall and what he's accomplished and how your race has risen up. Garrosh can try to change things, but he can't change the views of those who have always stood by and supported Thrall's ideals.

Vephriel wrote:Aw, don't let an idiot like Garrosh take away your Orcish pride Cerah. Be proud of Thrall and what he's accomplished and how your race has risen up. Garrosh can try to change things, but he can't change the views of those who have always stood by and supported Thrall's ideals.

Which, unfortunately, if you speak to the majority of Orc npc's, is a very small minority. Saurfang would be a MUCH better leader than Garrosh.

Vephriel wrote:Aw, don't let an idiot like Garrosh take away your Orcish pride Cerah. Be proud of Thrall and what he's accomplished and how your race has risen up. Garrosh can try to change things, but he can't change the views of those who have always stood by and supported Thrall's ideals.

Besides, Thrall is an orc too.

Gelannerai wrote:

Vephriel wrote:Aw, don't let an idiot like Garrosh take away your Orcish pride Cerah. Be proud of Thrall and what he's accomplished and how your race has risen up. Garrosh can try to change things, but he can't change the views of those who have always stood by and supported Thrall's ideals.

Which, unfortunately, if you speak to the majority of Orc npc's, is a very small minority. Saurfang would be a MUCH better leader than Garrosh.

I personally think Saurfang will be the true leader and probably kill Garrosh, if you remember what he said in Warsong Hold to him.

Taluwen wrote:

Palladiamorsdeus wrote:We're not having the Sylvanas argument again. Some of us think of her as a villain, some of us don't. Leave it there.

I'm gonna side with Palla on this. I think of her as a royal bitch of a villain and she's becoming the very thing she sought to destroy but I don't wanna see a huge argument on this.

How can you hate someone who sings such a lovely sad song?

Purge the unclean!!!

Anyia wrote:

Taluwen wrote:

Palladiamorsdeus wrote:We're not having the Sylvanas argument again. Some of us think of her as a villain, some of us don't. Leave it there.

I'm gonna side with Palla on this. I think of her as a royal bitch of a villain and she's becoming the very thing she sought to destroy but I don't wanna see a huge argument on this.

How can you hate someone who sings such a lovely sad song?

That was her old self, for one. She's not like that anymore and cares nothing about that in Cata. I didn't have problems with her when she was decent. In cata, she's becoming the very thing she sought to destroy. She lost my respect.

Talu, when you say "I don't want an argument like that" you don't usually go back and continue arguing afterwards. Besides, that argument is nullified. She's doing what sue has to do to save her people, and she even stands up against Garrosh! How can that be considered evil?

Either way, Pallas is right. Let's just drop it.

Please just drop the Sylvanas thing? Please? No five page argument over it. Just agree to disagree and move on.

Pfftt bout time the allys got something crazy like this really. Truelly am getting sick of people thinking the Alliance are the "good" side and the Horde are the "evil" side. When infact they are both as bad as each other. Oh and if anyone brings up "what about wraithgate" as a reason for the Horde being bad/dumb and if they we good or something they would of knowen about the coup and stuff.

well if my Onyxia lore is right did she not like corrupt most of the stormwind nobles? and help kidnap the king? so really both sides have fell for things like this. lol

Just my take and lets move on!

Saturo wrote:Talu, when you say "I don't want an argument like that" you don't usually go back and continue arguing afterwards. Besides, that argument is nullified. She's doing what sue has to do to save her people, and she even stands up against Garrosh! How can that be considered evil?

Either way, Pallas is right. Let's just drop it.

Wasnt arguing. If you read, I was just explaining.

Vephriel wrote:Aw, don't let an idiot like Garrosh take away your Orcish pride Cerah. Be proud of Thrall and what he's accomplished and how your race has risen up. Garrosh can try to change things, but he can't change the views of those who have always stood by and supported Thrall's ideals.

Thanks. I'll have to keep in mind who the true Warchief is, and support him in his efforts to save the world from Deathwing ... by going out and giving a nice home to all the cool new pets that I can

Besides, Cerah's not an ordinary Orc anyway. (Are any of our toons "ordinary <insert race here>s?"). She was raised in the Darkthorn Tauren Tribe (Seraga Darkthorn, an in-game questgiver out at the Crossroads, is her Mom, an Orc shaman who praises the Earthmother, plus "Darkthorn" is listed as a Tauren tribal name on the WoWWiki), she married a Darkspear Troll, Seabaston, and spends most of her time in Northrend hanging out with her sister-in-law, Anyetah (Seabaston and Anyetah are my bf's toons -- Anya's his main), and has friends in all the Horde races, and even a few Alliance ones. I guess you could say she's a true daughter of Thrall's Horde.

I guess you could say I like rp-ing too

*nods to Cerah* I don't RP my toons, but I do have a sense of backstory for my alliance ones. (How funny that I've never developed the horde ones...shows where my heart is.) There's very definitely a disconnect between them and their home factions, just across the board. Their attitudes are different, depending on the character in question, but they're all outcasts from their society, either forcibly or by choice.* It's just plain ol' more interesting to play a character who isn't a mindless dreg.

* Only my dwarf priest has always had sense of homeland pride. She's always been proud to be a dwarf, though she used to be a non-drinking sort. She's recovered from being so serious over the years, though. Her sister (my former paladin/death knight/name placeholder paladin) used to be much more drawn toward human society. However, once the life path of a shaman was made available to her, she found her true calling. (Don't ask how she's recovered from being a death knight; she got better!) She will take the loss of Magni quite hard and will find ties to her roots as a dwarf through the tragedy. She will, however, retain her love of horses. Guess she really liked them rather than human society!

:O a non drinking dwarf! thats just not right! lol

I think the varian bug is due to the new war game mode which flags one team as horde, and the flagging thing went crazy


Also about Garrosh, he seems to have grown a bit more honorable and respectful.
Examples:Garrosh Hellscream says: What have you done, Krom'gar?
Overlord Krom'gar says: Warchief! I... I was carrying out your command!
Garrosh Hellscream says: My command?
Garrosh Hellscream says: Was my command to murder innocents, Krom'gar?
Overlord Krom'gar says: Warchief... Sir... I...
Garrosh Hellscream says: Am I a murderer, Krom'gar?
Overlord Krom'gar says: No, Warchief!
Garrosh Hellscream says: Then I ask you again: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!
Garrosh Hellscream says: I sent you to Stonetalon Mountains with an army. Your orders were to secure this land for the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Instead, you laid waste to the land. Murdered innocents, children even...
Garrosh Hellscream says: I spent a very long time in Northrend, Krom'gar. I learned much about the Horde at that time.
Garrosh Hellscream says: While there, a wise old war hero told me something that I would carry with me forever...
Garrosh Hellscream says: "Honor," Krom'gar, "No matter how dire the battle... Never forsake it."
Garrosh Hellscream says: Overlord Krom'gar, you have disgraced the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: You have brought shame to us as a people.
Garrosh Hellscream says: By my right as Warchief, I hereby relieve you of duty.

Garrosh Hellscream says: And you, <race>!
High Chieftain Cliffwalker says: Wait, Warchief! Please! <name> was the hero responsible for uncovering this corruption. He tried to stop Krom'gar!
High Chieftain Cliffwalker says: Have mercy, Warchief.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Mercy... Your wife and child were murdered. Your kin wiped out. Your home burned to the ground.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Mercy... Chieftain, on this day I learn from you.

there are a few other I don't remember