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Junrei wrote:That's mostly cause of a few things.

1) Lor'themar has kept the elves out of unneeded bloodshed.
2) Garrosh saw the Blood Elves as weak and worthless(which is showed that when you made a Horde Pandaren).
3) Lor'themar has been pretty much drinking his life away because he didn't want to be leader, thus didn't do much of anything. This is information from the short story.

With how Lor'themar has finally gotten off his booty and taken the reins for once, I think the elves will become more involved, especially since Vol'jin and Lor are pretty good friends after all this.

Oh man, I hope so. Belf lore is pretty much the only lore I actually care about (and I LOVE it. Like let's not even delve into my addiction to the fel addiction because it's a little ironic), and I've missed having a lot of it. I switched from Alliance to Horde because I felt rather left out in the stories (for Alliance lately, it's certainly felt like we're having everything happen TO us, instead of getting to do thing to the other side) and events as a whole. Despite Varian's bit of "okay I'll back off", we've been losing this war for quite a while. I mean, we lost Theramore. We've lost night elven lands. We lost Gilneas before we even really had it. And we haven't made much of a counter attack at all. If it weren't for this clip, I would've fully expected us to lose Dalaran in the next xpack. I still kinda feel like we might.

I just want belves to get attention again, because I don't really care about the other races in the Horde much ;;;;

I am really looking forward to the development of the trolls now that Vol'jin is warchief. I am also hoping that all the racial leaders who haven't been very prominent will receive some attention.

Aeladrine wrote:

Junrei wrote:That's mostly cause of a few things.

1) Lor'themar has kept the elves out of unneeded bloodshed.
2) Garrosh saw the Blood Elves as weak and worthless(which is showed that when you made a Horde Pandaren).
3) Lor'themar has been pretty much drinking his life away because he didn't want to be leader, thus didn't do much of anything. This is information from the short story.

With how Lor'themar has finally gotten off his booty and taken the reins for once, I think the elves will become more involved, especially since Vol'jin and Lor are pretty good friends after all this.

Oh man, I hope so. Belf lore is pretty much the only lore I actually care about (and I LOVE it. Like let's not even delve into my addiction to the fel addiction because it's a little ironic), and I've missed having a lot of it. I switched from Alliance to Horde because I felt rather left out in the stories (for Alliance lately, it's certainly felt like we're having everything happen TO us, instead of getting to do thing to the other side) and events as a whole. Despite Varian's bit of "okay I'll back off", we've been losing this war for quite a while. I mean, we lost Theramore. We've lost night elven lands. We lost Gilneas before we even really had it. And we haven't made much of a counter attack at all. If it weren't for this clip, I would've fully expected us to lose Dalaran in the next xpack. I still kinda feel like we might.

I just want belves to get attention again, because I don't really care about the other races in the Horde much ;;;;

Actually Alliance was kinda winning.

Garrosh was kicked out of Ashenvale and most of his orcs were killed(course this isn't shown ingame. This happened in Wolfheart, if I recall).

We only lost Theramore Gilneas, and Southshore. Horde lost a whole lot more and not just in land. They were practically falling apart. Lor'themar even considered joining the Alliance again until Jaina did her ragey purge in Dalaran. Varian was not happy that Jaina messed that up.

Also Alliance just laid siege to the Orc capital. I'd say that's a pretty big counter attack. Anduin stopped Garrosh from using the Divine Bell. That's also another huge counter. Had Anduin not risked his life, Garrosh likely would've won this war with the Divine Bell in his grasp.

I think Dave Kossak went into it, saying while the Alliance did have some enormous victory aside from Siege, they did have a lot of little victories and that counted a lot more in the long run.

In the end, however, both sides won and peace is finally achieved.

It not being shown ingame is kinda a big deal, though. On top of that, Alliance lost some pretty big name areas. Theramore was one of the last strongholds of humanity. Losing that is a huge blow, and we got no recompense for it. The Alliance didn't lay siege to Orgrimmar in revenge for what we've lost. We laid siege because Garrosh tapped into powers that no one should have. It wasn't an Alliance battle, it was a save the world battle.

The Horde's issues have been issues of character development and actual change. All of the infighting has only taken place to make way for a better Horde. The faction is developing, while the Alliance has remained stagnant.

I mean, how much did it take for Varian to actually strike back? He just kept rolling over until Anduin almost died (and Anduin was specifically acting on his own, not as a prince of the Alliance. The Alliance storyline in Pandaria made that very clear, at least to me). There should've been fighting in the Alliance over things. There should've been counterattacks all throughout Cata. But there weren't.

As great as I think SoO is, it is in no way a victory for the Alliance. Not when the Horde came out better for it.

I think the main point of SoO was just that, Alea- it wasn't an Alliance victory. Or, well, it was, in that Garrosh isn't going to kill everyone ever, but that's sort of a shared victory. But because Garrosh became so independent and made his "true horde", it wasn't just Alliance vs. Horde anymore, it was Alliance And Horde vs. True Horde. And when the dust settled, the Alliance didn't really win anything except peace, which admittedly is pretty awesome. But they didn't eradicate the Horde or win a bunch of territory back. They cut their losses and called off the war. In the meanwhile, the Horde gained a strong new Warchief and they weren't killed, but they didn't really... win? I mean, the True Horde is gone, but again, shared victory. They didn't get killed by the Alliance, but that was totally in Varian's hands. They just got a leader. (And their city back)

I really like that, to be honest. Blizzard made an ending where nobody really came out the top faction. The Alliance is still damn strong and could probably kill the Horde as they are, but because they chose not to, that strength isn't going to count for much until the next expac, and by then I'm sure the Horde will be back to its old strength. It's a neat sort of conclusion and I'm really happy with it. (I'm a Hordie-heart, mind you! So I'd be really upset if the Alliance had gotten out of this as the big victors!)

LupisDarkmoon wrote:I think the main point of SoO was just that, Alea- it wasn't an Alliance victory. Or, well, it was, in that Garrosh isn't going to kill everyone ever, but that's sort of a shared victory. But because Garrosh became so independent and made his "true horde", it wasn't just Alliance vs. Horde anymore, it was Alliance And Horde vs. True Horde. And when the dust settled, the Alliance didn't really win anything except peace, which admittedly is pretty awesome. But they didn't eradicate the Horde or win a bunch of territory back. They cut their losses and called off the war. In the meanwhile, the Horde gained a strong new Warchief and they weren't killed, but they didn't really... win? I mean, the True Horde is gone, but again, shared victory. They didn't get killed by the Alliance, but that was totally in Varian's hands. They just got a leader. (And their city back)

I really like that, to be honest. Blizzard made an ending where nobody really came out the top faction. The Alliance is still damn strong and could probably kill the Horde as they are, but because they chose not to, that strength isn't going to count for much until the next expac, and by then I'm sure the Horde will be back to its old strength. It's a neat sort of conclusion and I'm really happy with it. (I'm a Hordie-heart, mind you! So I'd be really upset if the Alliance had gotten out of this as the big victors!)

You said it better than I did. Hehe. This is what I was referring to. Peace is the best spoils any war-torn veteran can ask for. And both sides got it without having anymore pointless bloodshed over petty squabbles.

I do like the ending of SoO, I was just pointing out that it's not really, at its core, a victory for the Alliance, just because it IS that shared victory. My frustration stems more from the fact that the Alliance has been getting the short end of the stick for a while now (to the point where I switched factions so I could feel like I was doing something again). It's been a problem I've noticed since Cata, and MoP hasn't done much to improve it.

It makes me a bit sad that I'm having much more fun and feeling much more involved on the Horde side of things, that's all.

Aeladrine wrote:I do like the ending of SoO, I was just pointing out that it's not really, at its core, a victory for the Alliance, just because it IS that shared victory. My frustration stems more from the fact that the Alliance has been getting the short end of the stick for a while now (to the point where I switched factions so I could feel like I was doing something again). It's been a problem I've noticed since Cata, and MoP hasn't done much to improve it.

It makes me a bit sad that I'm having much more fun and feeling much more involved on the Horde side of things, that's all.

Ahhh, yeah, I can understand that. I've noticed that I have a lot more fun questing on my Horde characters. The storylines seem more exciting. I guess because for a while, there's more at stake?

Sukurachi wrote:thank-you for the lore info, Junrei.

as I said, I'm 100% Blood Elf, through and through... there are a number of quests that bring up our actions in the past, or our part in the grand scheme of things, but I'd love for that to be fleshed out more. I feel we're just not getting enough justification.

With the events that happened in 5.2, it really had my blood elf, my first character to hit cap level twice before any other char (and nearly a 3rd time till I gear-screwed her when mana was still a thing cause I was a total newbie with gear STILL at the time), my most beloved character next to my trolls since burning crusade, I really took her to the next step. She had been wearing armor that reflected her bronze dragon affiliation moreso than her blood elf affiliation, even though it was always elves first, dragon kin second for her mog.

After all the crap the elves went through that I went through with them, I changed my mog completely and even ground up the 'of the Shattered Sun Offensive' title to reflect on her days riding into Outland upon the portals opening and defeating the Legion, Illidan, and Kael'thas. She still has the shoulders from Kara that serve as her nod to her dragon heritage (shhh back then I thought it was cool to be half dragon and it's stuck ever since >___>) but she is a full on ranger and soldier for the Blood Elves and all their factions aligned with Lor'Themar above all else. I've been meaning to get exalted with Scryers and Sunreavers from Wrath but I'm slow on that.... Then I gotta work on getting her to exalted with Sunreaver Offensive XD

Eeeeeee I hope they start getting bigger roles soon, was great to see em get some light this expansion, with luck they'll be getting more. Would give me more incentive to log in on my elf more than the ocassional minute or two as I am still stuck only about a quarter of the way in with 5.2 content. I'm at the point now where I've only just gotten through the main quest line introducing you to Isle of Thunder, haven't really gotten much farther than that...

Suku - Definitely! BEs definitely need a bit more, as do Draenei.

Oh yes! Vol'jin for Warchief!

I enjoyed both trailers way more than I thought I would. Varian's ending actually made it look a bit more 'badass' for the Alliance, and even though he didn't start demanding back the land that was taken from them, it does indicate that the Alliance now has something of an upper hand. And who know what the next expansion holds?

I would agree that not killing Garrosh is a welcome change from the standard "kill the big bad" ending, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

As for the Horde's trailer, it was very enjoyable. It was rather predictable, but done very well, with Thrall deferring to him. While Sylvanas did just nod, I wasn't expecting her to react at all; bowing to someone else is something I can never see her doing anyway, and it is a sign of assent to his leadership. While I love the Forsaken, and find Sylvanas to be an interesting character, I am glad that she was given a back seat for this expansion, and I completely agree that the Forsaken are overdue for some payback. Blood Elves are in desperate need of new lore, but I honestly don't think Blizzard know what to do with Draenei. Their lore has completely stagnated. I am hoping for more Blood Elf and Dwarf lore, at least. Or Tauren; Baine really needs to emerge as his own character.

Dave Kossak mentioned the Draenei are way overdue with lore so I'm hoping they get some spotlight, as well as the Sin'dorei.

You know if the lore that they put in the books etc was so important you'd think they'd put it in game. You know the place where most people get the story from instead of something that not many people would read. :/ I can't read those books I don't like how the writing is in them :S

That's just a thought that came to my head. :/

cowmuflage wrote:You know if the lore that they put in the books etc was so important you'd think they'd put it in game. You know the place where most people get the story from instead of something that not many people would read. :/ I can't read those books I don't like how the writing is in them :S

That's just a thought that came to my head. :/

Believe me, I agree. Even if it's just the big events in a scenario or two, they should include them. That was Cata's biggest problem. All the big, cool events? All in books.

Scenarios would be perfect for things like that. I mean if you don't want to do them you can skip them!

the whole Dominance Offensive quest line (I'm sorry, I don't know the Alliance equivalent) that gives you quests at each level of reputation gain is pretty epic and full of lore.

I was just obsessing with getting rep to exalted, planting stuff in my garden (work order: dominance offensive), and didn't realize that there were actually quests to go with this faction.

So when I decided to go look where it was, I was already exalted or nearly so with them, which means I got to do the entire quest chain in one single go, which took most of one whole day! But it was a great emotional rollercoaster ride! absolutely loved it.

Sukurachi wrote:the whole Dominance Offensive quest line (I'm sorry, I don't know the Alliance equivalent) that gives you quests at each level of reputation gain is pretty epic and full of lore.

I was just obsessing with getting rep to exalted, planting stuff in my garden (work order: dominance offensive), and didn't realize that there were actually quests to go with this faction.

So when I decided to go look where it was, I was already exalted or nearly so with them, which means I got to do the entire quest chain in one single go, which took most of one whole day! But it was a great emotional rollercoaster ride! absolutely loved it.

I was about to point that out to you since you like belf lore!

I did half of it before i faction changed my main back to alliance and it really made me like belf leader. Before I didn't really know anything about him but those quests where excellent. So was the thunder island stuff...although running around Dalaran slaughtering horde was fun too hehe!

Ermergerd YESS!!!

I'm happy now

Vol'jin for the win! or should I say...for the Horde hehe

Actually, parts of Pandaria made me feel like some of the quests were specifically tailored to my race, I think it would be incredible if they could give us just a tiny bit of race-specific quests at every patch. After a certain point, you stop feeling like "a Tauren" or "a Blood Elf" or "a Human". You start feeling like you're just "hey, Horde guy/girl" or "Yo, Alliance dude/chick".

It would improve immersion if we could have just a tiny bit extra, outside of our level 1-10 quests, to help us keep a connection with the specific race we are playing.

Sukurachi wrote:Actually, parts of Pandaria made me feel like some of the quests were specifically tailored to my race, I think it would be incredible if they could give us just a tiny bit of race-specific quests at every patch. After a certain point, you stop feeling like "a Tauren" or "a Blood Elf" or "a Human". You start feeling like you're just "hey, Horde guy/girl" or "Yo, Alliance dude/chick".

It would improve immersion if we could have just a tiny bit extra, outside of our level 1-10 quests, to help us keep a connection with the specific race we are playing.

Definitely agreed on that. Wish they'd put in some class quests again. Those were neat.