WoW Petopia Community

Just to point out that I did this quest yesterday; Garrosh has sent horde enforcements and is driving the Shatterspear to attack the night elves - before that the elves were perfectly happy to leave them alone HOWEVER the troll leader upon death drops a missive from Garrosh declaring they are to push forward and wipe out the entire new night elf town that is now the refuge for the citizens of Auberdine. I'll leave it at that but say in my opinion defending themselves is a just cause.

Saturo wrote:So, just because they're undead, you support a genocide, Slick?

They shouldn't exist in the first place. (Not in the "I hate them" way, or in the "they are on our lands" way, but in the way that they are an abomination, they are humans who died and raised, or were claimed by a disease that killed and revived them).

Your aunt Sue shows up as a zombie. Do you grant her equal rights, or blast her with a shotgun?

So, yes, I support a genocide of something that's an abomination and should not exist.

Slickrock wrote:So, yes, I support a genocide of something that's an abomination and should not exist.

And what have thoughts like that led to before? I'll just leave it at that, they're not abominations just for being undead. They're just slightly less alive.

cowmuflage wrote:Well Slickrock lore wise humans are not meant to exist aswell. They are after all the retarded kids of the vrykul and where not part of the titans plans. SHould we kill them all too?

Mutts or mutants are a bit different. That's a bit different than walking dead. "Hey, there's uncle Fred.. eww.. what happened to him? why does he have those daggers?.. why is uncle Fred ganking me?..."

Then again, I don't play a human in game.

I do find the horde bias here interesting, with several advocating attacking any alliance in sight, while I'm chastised for my hatred of the undead.

Perhaps Blizz has succeeded in reviving the war between the Horde and Alliance.

cowmuflage wrote:Well Slickrock lore wise humans are not meant to exist aswell. They are after all the retarded kids of the vrykul and where not part of the titans plans. SHould we kill them all too?

^ This.

When you think about it, most of the playable races on Azeroth, and a good deal fo the non-playable sentient species, aren't "supposed to exist".

Humans, as Cowmuflage said, are lorewise mutant vrykul (though I still believe that the vrykul's ancestors were from a prison ship that crashed on Azeroth on its way to the Korporu Sector, tying together Starcraft and Warcraft lore).

The prevailing theory that Night Elves are actually Dark Trolls that were mutated/evoled (depending upon your perspective) by the waters of the Well of Eternity. All elven variations afterwards -- satyars, harpies, naga, high elves -> blood elves are further mutations/evolutions/variations.

Dwarves and Gnomes were originally Earthen elementals and robots, respectively. Should they be killed because of their Curse of Flesh, which could be seen as just as impactful to their species as the Scourge/Forsaken plagues?

Forsaken themselves goes without saying. As Sylvanas explains to the player in the new Silverpine quests, they are still the citizens of Lordaran, living or dead. Unlike more classical explanations of zombies, they have free will. That's a little detail that can't be ignored.

Worgen, too, aren't supposed to be werewolves, but without them, the Alliance would be short an expansion race.

Even Orcs and Draenei, it can be argued, don't belong on Azeroth, being alien species. Should they be restricted to Outland?

So that leaves just Tauren, Goblins, and Trolls as the original sentient playable species of Azeroth, the only ones relatively unchanged since the Titans (who may be the same beings as Starcraft's Xel'naga) first visited this particular rock floating in space/the nether.

So by your defintion, Slickrock, I guess they should be the only races that actually belong on Azeroth? Just three, Horde races?

Well, I guess that would solve the Alliance/Horde conflict right there, since the Alliance would no longer exist if that were the case.

I might be a Horde fangirl, but I wouldn't want to see the Alliance completely wiped out. It would make for a very boring game if they were.

Saturo wrote:

Slickrock wrote:So, yes, I support a genocide of something that's an abomination and should not exist.

And what have thoughts like that led to before? I'll just leave it at that, they're not abominations just for being undead. They're just slightly less alive.

Slightly less alive?..

Of course, realize that this is a game, and my responses are in that context.

That being said, I suppose it brings up the question of exactly what the undead are. Do they still contain they spirits of the humans they once were? Or do they have something else? Or are they the chainsaw-fodder that we all love?

Now that being said, it's likely irrelevant, because the darkest rumors suggest that Slyvanas has gone too far. She is now going to raise the dead that were uneffected by the disease, corrupting those who died and were buried, using the former agents of the Lich King himself. That CANNOT be allowed to happen, and I WILL do all I can to fight against that happening.

Sylvanas has been resorting to increasingly unscrupulous tactics ever since the Wrathgate. Despite orders from the new Warchief, Garrosh Hellscream, to cease production of the Forsaken Blight that was used by Putress, she continues to use it against her enemies, including in the invasion of Gilneas and against the town of Southshore in Hillsbrad. She has also conscripted the val'kyr, the ascended vrykul women who once served the Lich King, and uses them to raise dead enemies as Forsaken as a solution to the undead not being able to procreate.

No. Just no.

And now that the Worgen have joined that ranks of the Alliance, I will stand with them against the undead threat. Do you really think the goal of Slyvanas is anything but the extermination of the Worgen?

Cerah wrote:
When you think about it, most of the playable races on Azeroth, and a good deal fo the non-playable sentient species, aren't "supposed to exist".

Well, I guess that would solve the Alliance/Horde conflict right there, since the Alliance would no longer exist if that were the case.

Evolution/mutation is far different that raised dead. If you can't see that, then there's no point in further discussion. The abomination of the dead being raised is NOT the same thing as your kid looks more like a fish than you did.

Now let's take the Dwarfs. A group of Earthen are given the "curse of flesh". They didn't die and were raised. They were cursed and transformed, but they could still procreate. That's still much different than Aunt Sue being raised from the dead.

But by most of your definition, you should be giving the Scourge equal rights too. They only want to enslave you, and make you into one of their own. Isn't that their right?..

http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/62

But really, the curse of flesh is no different than the undead plague. It's contagious, and it changes you into something else. You can't just use the argument "since it's still alive it's good!", undead people deserve the same rights as living people. Or what, you want a slave class?

Besides, my earlier argument applies for the game too. Guess who sat in all the human internment camps? Yep, orcs. Who the humans considered abominations. How is that different from the game?

While I understand your desire to keep the thread on topic, Wassa, the fate to the Shatterspear Trolls (through no fault of their own) is directly related to the other politics of Azeroth, so IMO, the thread is staying on topic.

Wassa wrote:This topic is about the Shatterspear trolls and what is happening to them now, not about undeads, humans, worgens, or any other races. Please go back to the topic at hand.

*Is tempted to ask you to go away*

Cerah wrote:While I understand your desire to keep the thread on topic, Wassa, the fate to the Shatterspear Trolls (through no fault of their own) is directly related to the other politics of Azeroth, so IMO, the thread is staying on topic.

*Doesn't have to*

But fine, I'll drop it. You people are obviously too racist to look at the undead without prejudice. Have fun without their awesomeness. -.-

Saturo wrote:Besides, my earlier argument applies for the game too. Guess who sat in all the human internment camps? Yep, orcs. Who the humans considered abominations. How is that different from the game?

You are confusing attrocities committed by others with my in-game beliefs.

Frankly, both the Orcs and Draenei should be sent home..

And regarding the Shatterspear, the argument goes global as soon as you discuss the reasons behind the attack.

I'm sure the NE would have been content to leave them dancing the night away, had they not attacked. It's true they were forced to attack, but they could have done something different, like appeal to the NE for help. But they attacked.

Sadly, the world is filled with stories of small groups used as tools by others, any paying the price for it.

Cerah wrote:
The prevailing theory that Night Elves are actually Dark Trolls that were mutated/evoled (depending upon your perspective) by the waters of the Well of Eternity. All elven variations afterwards -- satyars, harpies, naga, high elves -> blood elves are further mutations/evolutions/variations.

Just to point out, Satyrs are corrupted night elves. So they belong with the night elf catagory.

Wowpedia wrote:The original satyrs are the descendants of the kaldorei highborne, the first being Xavius, who allied directly with the Burning Legion during the first invasion ten thousand years before the First War.

Unlike most Highborne who aided the Legion simply to gain access to more magic, those who would become satyr embraced demonic power for its own sake and swore their allegiance to Xavius, the first satyr. Xavius had been corrupted by Sargeras himself and had the power to turn other willing night elves into satyr.

Blood elven descendants would be sindorei highborne.

(Source)

Taluwen wrote:You're the red shirt person of Petopia? XD

Indeed

Slickrock wrote:Do you really think the goal of Slyvanas is anything but the extermination of the Worgen?

Yes. It is nothing less than the complete extermination of the living and their incorporation into the Foraken.


I'm not for genocide, eviction or any other method of elimination of any of the races, mutations, evolutions etc. that populate our world (of Warcraft). I think Gimlion and Cerah have expressed what I feel pretty concisely, so I won't beat that dead horse.

I will say, though, that conflict is THE great driving force behind any good story. The fact that we've just had our conflict tank topped up guarantees that, for the foreseeable future we'll be living in interesting times. The lorekeepers will have to stay on their toes.

Cerah wrote:When you think about it, most of the playable races on Azeroth, and a good deal fo the non-playable sentient species, aren't "supposed to exist".

Indeed. Those who were fortunate enough to complete the Algalon encounter in Ulduar (or be in Dalaran when Rhonin delivered his aftermath speech) found this out for sure. The Old Gods of Azeroth have corrupted the Titans' blueprint and skewed all evolution, and all of Azeroth should be "reinitialized" to restore the intended harmony.

Incidentally if we'd allowed this, Deathwing wouldn't have been a threat since the black dragonflight would once again have been the protectors they were meant to be...

VelkynKarma wrote:For once I want to see an expansion villain who is the center of an expansion be genuinely EVIL.

Deathwing isn't evil, he's merely misunderstood.

Anyia wrote:

VelkynKarma wrote:For once I want to see an expansion villain who is the center of an expansion be genuinely EVIL.

Deathwing isn't evil, he's merely misunderstood.

He just needs a hug....

...

and a bath....

...

and possibly a tic tac....

Oh and something to fix that yucky lava rash he seems to have.

cowmuflage wrote:Oh and something to fix that yucky lava rash he seems to have.

*glances to her bag of herbs* I'm gonna need a lot more herbs.....

My main is a night elf, but my primary alt is a troll. I've always loved flying by Shatterspear Village, and couldn't wait to visit it when Azeroth became flyable. And with trolls becoming druids, and it being right next to Moonglade, I figured it would be a troll druid settlement, and lead to night elf / troll druid cooperation....

Yeah. My night elf had to use an Ancient to massacre the whole village as part of the chain to get the pet Withers. Thanks a lot, Blizz!