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Quiet tanks can also be focused tanks. It's pretty hard to maintain a conversation and aggro at the same time. So I wouldn't get into stereotyping that way.

I had another fail run Heroic HoS. First sign of trouble was when I saw the tank (warrior) only had 28k health (inspected him...lv 78 greens/80blues) Great! There was a Very squishy pally, A rogue, a ele shammy, and myself healing on my resto shammy. Well, the warrior runs in and starts pulling mobs like he's in full ICC gear, I am spamming heals on him as fast as I can, Aggro is getting pulled left right and center, pally goes down, rogue next, managed to keep the tank alive. Ok, rez's, and I start to drink and....off goes the tank and starts pulling again...Wheee...Sooo, after many many close calls and one wipe we get the maiden down, then we get the stone boss down, tank had 28 health left and rogue was down to 17...really close there! Ok, we manage to get to that one point, where Brann goes and works that machine in the circular room...The other shamy puts down his totems (healing stream as well) So I put down Mana stream, part way through the fight the Shammy starts yelling at me to drop healing Stream, I point out he already has it down, he says we need both... Big mobs suddenly come, tank goes down, then pally, rogue me and other shammy...then he starts on about Thats why we need 2 healing streams...I leave party.

Ask my guild...do two healing stream totems stack in a dungeon run...."Nope!" That's what I thought. Hell if they stacked you could just get a tank and a bunch of shammies to drop HS in place of a healer...

Re-qued, Got OCC, Tank had 49K health, group was good, flawless run, Great people we had fun and great conversations, joking around. Much better!

Makoes wrote:The other shamy puts down his totems (healing stream as well) So I put down Mana stream, part way through the fight the Shammy starts yelling at me to drop healing Stream, I point out he already has it down, he says we need both... Big mobs suddenly come, tank goes down, then pally, rogue me and other shammy...then he starts on about Thats why we need 2 healing streams...I leave party.

Ask my guild...do two healing stream totems stack in a dungeon run...."Nope!" That's what I thought. Hell if they stacked you could just get a tank and a bunch of shammies to drop HS in place of a healer...

Rofl. Now there's a shammy who doesn't understand the concept of totem buffs.

I personally would have kicked the tank ages before you left the party. Glad your Occ group was so much better!

Makoes wrote:First sign of trouble was when I saw the tank (warrior) only had 28k health (inspected him...lv 78 greens/80blues) Great!

See, this is what bothers me: I have had amazing tanks in that kind of gear. I mean just wonderful, never losing aggro, not having health drops in 0.3 seconds flat, all that. As long as they're def capped and know what they're doing! Then I've had horrendous tanks in that kind of gear, where they subsequently blame the gear. No, I'm sorry. The only necessary difference between a tank with 28k health in blues and a tank with 46k in ICC gear is that I'll need to toss out more heals (which honestly can be fun). If you've got 28k health in blues and you keep dropping dangerously low then 1) you're not def capped and shouldn't be queueing as a tank for heroics, and 2) you're not using your cooldowns properly. Stop blaming bad gear, heroics were tanked in blues with 28k health back at the beginning of Wrath.

/end rant. (I don't mean you when I say "you," Makoes. I just got writing, and I guess it turned into a letter to bad tanks... >_<)

Kalliope wrote:Quiet tanks can also be focused tanks. It's pretty hard to maintain a conversation and aggro at the same time. So I wouldn't get into stereotyping that way.

True no one can do two things at once, otherwise we'd be psychic. Still, I have seen more of these quiet tanks that actually end up doing something wrong and the results become disastrous than those that seem to know what they're doing and not go too fast. There has been those I have seen that do stop when a healer says he/she needs more mana, but there has also been plenty of them that keep going even when the healer needs to take a break for mana.

I was leveling Hippomenes today in some random heroics and drew Halls of Stone with a tank in a good deal of 264 gear and over 40k hp (with fort). He couldn't hold threat well at all. Without my misdirects, we would have been in trouble. The tank stuck vigilance on the dps warrior, who was the lowest of the three dps. Bad idea. The tree druid was pretty scrubby as well; the tank did a REALLY bad pull on the packs before Maiden and the druid didn't LoS the ranged attacks. Bam, dead tree. Hip got two levels in there, so it all worked out, but it just amused me to see a tank with way better gear than my warrior having such terrible issues.

Gearscore ain't everythin', kids!

Bad idea. The tree druid was pretty scrubby as well; the tank did a REALLY bad pull on the packs before Maiden and the druid didn't LoS the ranged attacks. Bam, dead tree.

Sure he didn't get to caught up in healing? I did that once in a group, got to caught up healing, lag spike, whoopsie dead cow on the floor and I blink and get all >_> I always forget my own hp.

The tank did a good nature laugh and is all Don't we all?

But Zeldei had a horrible run for Culling of Stratholme. Had a tank leave imediately. So one of the DK's decides he will tank. Well after the second boss, the necromancer- or perhaps it was the abomination. I forget which, but pretty sure it was the necromancer, the healer died. Instead of letting the healer get mana back, 'tank' DK and dps DK go and pull group. Then tank pulls group back to us and drops group, but not before blaming healer for the mess.

After finding out the dumbass was on Hellscream, I whispered him, chewed him out and thanked him for my repair bill and being an asshole! Giving him no chance to respond I used /ignore.

Ryai wrote:

Bad idea. The tree druid was pretty scrubby as well; the tank did a REALLY bad pull on the packs before Maiden and the druid didn't LoS the ranged attacks. Bam, dead tree.

Sure he didn't get to caught up in healing? I did that once in a group, got to caught up healing, lag spike, whoopsie dead cow on the floor and I blink and get all >_> I always forget my own hp.

Yeah, I've done that myself, but no, that wasn't the case here. There was plenty of time to move out of LoS safely because the tank wasn't spiking badly...due to like four mobs being on the healer. And because of the cast times, they hadn't actually hit the tree for a good 4-5 seconds....then blammo, he dropped like a rock. There was time to LoS; he just wasn't paying attention and there wasn't a reason for him to have to heal hard at that point.

Tanks should not wear cloth.

Ever.

That is all xD

Sounds like the druid who tried to tell me on Sendeni that 'Pally I know why u r going oom, u keep using beacon of light'

No I kept going oom because you were tanking in caster *facepalm*

*pats Wassa*

And Kalli: yeeeaaah.... even I'm not blind enough to ignore 4 mobs directly on me. What always gets me is the stealth damage.

Ugh, that's awful, Wassa. >_< I'm glad you sat in Dalaran to counter-grief them. They had no right to abuse the healer who was attempting to carry them through. I'm sure it was totally intentional on their part. -_-

We recently had the advantage on a dk from our server who turned up in HoR claiming to have been "hacked" and that "this is the most gear I could scrape together." This is a common practice, unfortunately. People just want to get carried through there. We kicked him the moment we were able to.

Why would you even try to pug an instance you are undergeared for? Especially when you KNOW you're undergeared for it?

Go back and do less taxing heroics first, build up better gear, and THEN try the ICC ones O_o

~VelkynKarma

VelkynKarma wrote:Why would you even try to pug an instance you are undergeared for? Especially when you KNOW you're undergeared for it?

Go back and do less taxing heroics first, build up better gear, and THEN try the ICC ones O_o

~VelkynKarma

Well, it was HoR normal in this case, but still; it was blatant carrying and I've seen the same happen on heroic too. >_< People are so damned lazy and expect others to carry their sorry asses.

Sarayana wrote:

Makoes wrote:First sign of trouble was when I saw the tank (warrior) only had 28k health (inspected him...lv 78 greens/80blues) Great!

See, this is what bothers me: I have had amazing tanks in that kind of gear. I mean just wonderful, never losing aggro, not having health drops in 0.3 seconds flat, all that. As long as they're def capped and know what they're doing! Then I've had horrendous tanks in that kind of gear, where they subsequently blame the gear. No, I'm sorry. The only necessary difference between a tank with 28k health in blues and a tank with 46k in ICC gear is that I'll need to toss out more heals (which honestly can be fun). If you've got 28k health in blues and you keep dropping dangerously low then 1) you're not def capped and shouldn't be queueing as a tank for heroics, and 2) you're not using your cooldowns properly. Stop blaming bad gear, heroics were tanked in blues with 28k health back at the beginning of Wrath.

/end rant. (I don't mean you when I say "you," Makoes. I just got writing, and I guess it turned into a letter to bad tanks... >_<)

I didnt mean that all tanks with low health are bad, just that its usually a first key sign that its most likely not going to be a smooth run. Yes there are some with low health who are def capped and dont take much damage, but his gear was just plain bad, he needed to run some more regs before trying to tank a heroic.

but the majority of a Heroic tanks gear should not be green lv 78's with about 3 blue 80 pieces.

Makoes wrote:I didnt mean that all tanks with low health are bad, just that its usually a first key sign that its most likely not going to be a smooth run. Yes there are some with low health who are def capped and dont take much damage, but his gear was just plain bad, he needed to run some more regs before trying to tank a heroic.

but the majority of a Heroic tanks gear should not be green lv 78's with about 3 blue 80 pieces.

No I know, and I realise the whole rant might have come off as directed to you... Sorry! It was directed at all the tanks that are bad and then blame their gear. I totally agree with you in general terms, and greens + three blues sounds like he's not even trying. Heck, I don't even queue as dps without picking up some boe blues and epics for my newly dinged toons!

Sarayana wrote:

Makoes wrote:I didnt mean that all tanks with low health are bad, just that its usually a first key sign that its most likely not going to be a smooth run. Yes there are some with low health who are def capped and dont take much damage, but his gear was just plain bad, he needed to run some more regs before trying to tank a heroic.

but the majority of a Heroic tanks gear should not be green lv 78's with about 3 blue 80 pieces.

No I know, and I realise the whole rant might have come off as directed to you... Sorry! :? It was directed at all the tanks that are bad and then blame their gear. I totally agree with you in general terms, and greens + three blues sounds like he's not even trying. Heck, I don't even queue as dps without picking up some boe blues and epics for my newly dinged toons!

TBH you shouldn't have to be forced to buy blues you'll be replacing anyways- I mean if it's not like FoS or PoS or HoR where you really have to have peiople geared for it and not two DPS in heirloom gear and greens and a tank who is just ready for it [boosting a friend with my healer, the joys of undergearing]. I think it's the fact most people assume that they can keep chugging in heirlooms untill FoS/PoS/HoR without any penalty, instead of actually trying for better gear. As I mean there's nothing wrong with going into a dungeon freshly geared, I did that with my pally tank for nexus/UK as I needed the emblems to get better gear. There was no ifs ands or buts about it- the only problems I had was the fact my first run for nexus everyone overgeared me, the healer kept slagging me and if Aria hadn't of been there I bet I would have been kicked as the healer and dps were that rude, and Aria had to defend me with a How the hell are you supposed to gear up if you don't run heroics snap, basically.

Also, I have also had decent tanks in PoS [norm admitedly] who were still in half greens and it was actually the overgeared HEALERS who were slacking off! So yeah it takes all kinds.


The only time I really care about low health, is when it's low health + hectic aggro spikes and losses. It's then I check if the guy actually has tank gear on. Because I had a UP run where we had a tank, full set of epics. 32K+ hp.

He was in dps gear. So high health pool doesn't really always automatically grant 'he is in tank kit' too.

Anyways, my bad Mana Tombs run; have a DK tank. Taking more damage than normal. Frowning, I first put it off to Ok it's hard gearing up as a tank, and DK's are finicky tanks. He hasn't really lost aggro, so he might be new to tanking still. So I keep quiet.

But it nags me and nags me; he is having big spikes for health, he is taking way to much damage on trash. I have a lag spike, and bam tank is dead. While rezzing him, I inspect him and am unsurprised when I say I find out that no tank kit; not even trying to gem for stamina/gear for stamina. He is all DPS'd talents. And when I confront him he claims he did it because he was tired of long waits and he didn't give a flying fuck about his gear.

The hunter tried to defend him all 'he only missed speccing in blade barrier', annoyed I snap Shows how much you know, the hunter tried to be all big man, so I snap again the tanking talents [still] are in other trees, not only that but it's also HOW he spent the blood talents as I have had blood dps tanks before but they always had a different mixup and well even with the same gear as him, did marginally better.

Maybe they just weren't retarded asshats who didn't care about the grief they caused?

At anyrate this brings me back to the days of Stand still, press Flash of Light. Keep Beacon of Light up on tank at all times. ALL. TIMES.

I don't like spamming FoL. So I am sitting here, disgusted that I have to spam FoL whenever he loses even just 1k hp, overhealing and wasking 1k from FoL. But I daren't risk letting him drop lower than that. I couldn't even risk Holy Light.

So we get to one of the rooms where there's a terror and some of the Ethrals- infact where the escort guy would be for the quest. Tank gets feared. DPS get feared. All a sudden entire room is pulled and a minimum of 9 ethrals are zerging for me. My one Ohshi button is down, so I pop salvation onto myself as I am going to be needing it- I spam heal like there is no time to say no sir I don't want any wool and outside of I am pretty sure the hunter dying- possibly the warrior, no one else fell. And there was just a quiet silence that befell the group as I sat down to drink, after squeezing out so many flash of lights and holy shocks that I had gone oom twice over [thanks to quick trinket+torrent+DI], and the tank finally quips up 'that was some damn good healing'.

And to that I just bitterly say That I have gotten used to in the Because of idiots like you sort of way.

Ryai wrote:

Sarayana wrote:

Makoes wrote:I didnt mean that all tanks with low health are bad, just that its usually a first key sign that its most likely not going to be a smooth run. Yes there are some with low health who are def capped and dont take much damage, but his gear was just plain bad, he needed to run some more regs before trying to tank a heroic.

but the majority of a Heroic tanks gear should not be green lv 78's with about 3 blue 80 pieces.

No I know, and I realise the whole rant might have come off as directed to you... Sorry! It was directed at all the tanks that are bad and then blame their gear. I totally agree with you in general terms, and greens + three blues sounds like he's not even trying. Heck, I don't even queue as dps without picking up some boe blues and epics for my newly dinged toons!

TBH you shouldn't have to be forced to buy blues you'll be replacing anyways- I mean if it's not like FoS or PoS or HoR where you really have to have peiople geared for it and not two DPS in heirloom gear and greens and a tank who is just ready for it [boosting a friend with my healer, the joys of undergearing]. I think it's the fact most people assume that they can keep chugging in heirlooms untill FoS/PoS/HoR without any penalty, instead of actually trying for better gear. As I mean there's nothing wrong with going into a dungeon freshly geared, I did that with my pally tank for nexus/UK as I needed the emblems to get better gear. There was no ifs ands or buts about it- the only problems I had was the fact my first run for nexus everyone overgeared me, the healer kept slagging me and if Aria hadn't of been there I bet I would have been kicked as the healer and dps were that rude, and Aria had to defend me with a How the hell are you supposed to gear up if you don't run heroics snap, basically.

Also, I have also had decent tanks in PoS [norm admitedly] who were still in half greens and it was actually the overgeared HEALERS who were slacking off! So yeah it takes all kinds.

I know what you're saying but tanking is the most gear dependent role.

All the same, I've tried healing a new (non-def capped) tank through heroic UK where it went fine and one that was at about the same gear level where we didn't even get past those first trash pulls. My husband (poor guy, he's my go-to dps to sacrifice if I can't keep everyone up because I can pay for his repairs) died twice before we got to the room with the forge in the centre because I had to use 99% of my GCDs on the tank. And myself, because my frikkin' rejuv pulled aggro. Like you said, it takes all kinds.

Ryai wrote:

Sarayana wrote:

Makoes wrote:I didnt mean that all tanks with low health are bad, just that its usually a first key sign that its most likely not going to be a smooth run. Yes there are some with low health who are def capped and dont take much damage, but his gear was just plain bad, he needed to run some more regs before trying to tank a heroic.

but the majority of a Heroic tanks gear should not be green lv 78's with about 3 blue 80 pieces.

No I know, and I realise the whole rant might have come off as directed to you... Sorry! It was directed at all the tanks that are bad and then blame their gear. I totally agree with you in general terms, and greens + three blues sounds like he's not even trying. Heck, I don't even queue as dps without picking up some boe blues and epics for my newly dinged toons!

TBH you shouldn't have to be forced to buy blues you'll be replacing anyways

It's damned easy to hit 80 in all blues, either from instances or questing, especially as a tank. There's no excuse for it outside of laziness. They don't need to be purchased if you're on a budget. It's not that hard to build a tanking set by tanking and questing.