WoW Petopia Community

gormanghaste wrote:My main is a night elf, but my primary alt is a troll. I've always loved flying by Shatterspear Village, and couldn't wait to visit it when Azeroth became flyable. And with trolls becoming druids, and it being right next to Moonglade, I figured it would be a troll druid settlement, and lead to night elf / troll druid cooperation....

I was hoping the same thing.

I really enjoy a discussion on the politics surrounding the Shatterspear Village. What I don't enjoy is Horde killing just for the heck of it, especially the questgivers. If I wanted something like this I would have rolled on a pvp server. (its just a pet peeve of mine).

Pfft alliance players do that too lol

Agreed, Cow.

Anyone who's played Horde, especially on pvp servers, knows that the Crossroads and Tarren Mill are almost constantly under attack. In fact, according to an Ally friend of mine on Alterac Mountains, the Alliance (at least on our server) considers it a rite of passage to attack Tarren Mill as soon as they hit lvl 60. Whole guilds will occupy the place for hours on end, making life quite difficult for lowbies trying to quest in the area.

Individual lvl 80 Alliance members often think it's a game to run around the Crossroads killing questgivers and the flightmaster, until we can finally get some lvl 80s up from Org to chase them out of town, and those are the ones nice enough to *not* kill the noobs. One Boomkin made a pain in the ass of himself for hours back when Cerah was a lowbie. I had just started playing at this point, and I honestly didn't know what to do about it.

I still remember a time that happened back when Emielee, my warlock, was a noob. Me and a few other lowbies spent half an hour hiding at the top of the TM inn, sending out hunter pets with Eyes of the Beast, and Eyes of Killrogg every so often to check to see if the Alliance had left yet. It took them a while to find us. Another time, I got ganked there immediately after logging in, just checking my friggin' mail!

My lowbie Alliance toons never had that much trouble questing, even in the areas that are supposed to be the equivelents to CR and TM ally-side -- Auberdine and Darkshire. I've never seen any Horde character do more than run through Darkshire and piss off a few guards.

So attacks on the Shatterspear killers are more than justified IMO. Get some well-earned revenge!

cowmuflage wrote:Pfft alliance players do that too lol

I was in Winterspring on Talu and I went to the horde flight master to see him dead and some flaggied allies nearby laughing. Three other hordes showed up and were as annoyed as me. So we ganked the bastard for killing our flight master then killed theirs.

So yes, alliance is just as bad.

Azunara wrote:Eh, to you Horde fans, I could argue Southshore is a pretty nice example of Horde being evil. Granted, that's the Forsaken, so it's a stretch...But Southshore wasn't the most militaristic of towns either.

Meh. I don't know enough about lore and whatnot to argue much. Carry on. I'll just keep loving my NE druid and my human lock. (No, really. I am really loving my lock. It's scary. >.>)

Not to mention, you have Astranaar, the sleepy village on a lake that now looks like London did in WWII. I wish those wyverns weren't flying so darn fast; I'd happily shoot them out of the sky. The Warsong don't really care about the lumber anymore; they were cutting down trees so much faster than they could be used that much of the wood was being left to rot, back before the Shattering.

Honestly, I find what the Northwatch did to Camp Taurajo quite indefensible (when I explored the area, and encountered a level 80 orc killing the looters, I /cheered him on). Sure, Northwatch Hold has been under attack from the Horde, and the digsites in the Barrens and Mulgore have been subject to wanton killings. But, Camp Taurajo didn't deserve such brutality.

But, in the case of the Night Elves in Darkshore, they had a neutral neighbor start an unprovoked invasion at a time when their forces were desperately trying to stave off a larger invasion to the south. Just what the heck did the Shatterspear think the Sentinels would do? They can't afford a threat to crop up so close to Lor'Danil, the link between the forces on Kalimdor and their home in Teldrassil. So, they need to squash the threat or lose their only port on the mainland.

Cialbi wrote:But, in the case of the Night Elves in Darkshore, they had a neutral neighbor start an unprovoked invasion at a time when their forces were desperately trying to stave off a larger invasion to the south. Just what the heck did the Shatterspear think the Sentinels would do? They can't afford a threat to crop up so close to Lor'Danil, the link between the forces on Kalimdor and their home in Teldrassil. So, they need to squash the threat or lose their only port on the mainland.

Garrosh. Not the Shatterspears. Garrosh.

I'm with Cialbi on this one; Garrosh may have ordered it but if someone orders you to do something you know is unjust and isnt right; do you do it? No you dont, I was fine with the Shatterspear UNTIL they attacked with the aid of the horde.. Its quite true they knew what they were doing, so to feel ill to the night elves for defending themselves after they've all ready been fit hard is a bit unfair.

Nevar wrote:I'm with Cialbi on this one; Garrosh may have ordered it but if someone orders you to do something you know is unjust and isnt right; do you do it? No you dont, I was fine with the Shatterspear UNTIL they attacked with the aid of the horde.. Its quite true they knew what they were doing, so to feel ill to the night elves for defending themselves after they've all ready been fit hard is a bit unfair.

So....if a guy holds a loaded gun to your head and demands you give him your money.....you're going to tell him no because it's wrong for him to be stealing from you? I think not. That's basically the situation with the shatterspears. They were a tiny tribe, barely surviving as it was. Garrosh is the guy with the bigger axe and was basically giving them an ultimatum -- Do it or Die.

My point is that you CANT under any circumstance be peeved off at the night elves for defending themselves; were talking in game not real life and if theres still a tribe of you are you really going to bow down to being opressed by someone; I'm sure the other trolls in the horde would have helped the Shatterspear. All I'm pointing out is dont act like its such a huge crime to defend themselves when Auberdines been annihilated and their remaining city houses injured survivors. No side is better than the other but in war which is going on now you cant expect the other side not to fight back against an attack. Especially if you do those quests pertaining to the Shatterspear line and find out that those Shatterspear trolls are ruthless and capturing night elves to torture them, I play alliance, I've played horde too and realize Alliance can be just as bad but it isnt all "Lets blame alliance because were not them and we like trolls and this is unjust" its more or less "Lets step up and accept the consequences of our actions, because both sides do bad things so lets not pretend that one is innocent"

Taluwen wrote:

Nevar wrote:I'm with Cialbi on this one; Garrosh may have ordered it but if someone orders you to do something you know is unjust and isnt right; do you do it? No you dont, I was fine with the Shatterspear UNTIL they attacked with the aid of the horde.. Its quite true they knew what they were doing, so to feel ill to the night elves for defending themselves after they've all ready been fit hard is a bit unfair.

So....if a guy holds a loaded gun to your head and demands you give him your money.....you're going to tell him no because it's wrong for him to be stealing from you? I think not. That's basically the situation with the shatterspears. They were a tiny tribe, barely surviving as it was. Garrosh is the guy with the bigger axe and was basically giving them an ultimatum -- Do it or Die.

This would be the point where the Shatterspear should have packed up and fled. They could have tried to talk their way into Moonglade, given teh new troll connections to the Cenarion Circle and the fact that not even Garosh is stupid enough to try and attack Moonglade.

Maybe the Moonglade idea is a bit of a reach. My point simply is that the Shatterspear weren't limited to choosing death by Sentinel or death by Orc. I sure know that I would have fled if the thug trying to 'recruit' me couldn't afford to launch a manhunt.

Cialbi wrote:

Taluwen wrote:

Nevar wrote:I'm with Cialbi on this one; Garrosh may have ordered it but if someone orders you to do something you know is unjust and isnt right; do you do it? No you dont, I was fine with the Shatterspear UNTIL they attacked with the aid of the horde.. Its quite true they knew what they were doing, so to feel ill to the night elves for defending themselves after they've all ready been fit hard is a bit unfair.

So....if a guy holds a loaded gun to your head and demands you give him your money.....you're going to tell him no because it's wrong for him to be stealing from you? I think not. That's basically the situation with the shatterspears. They were a tiny tribe, barely surviving as it was. Garrosh is the guy with the bigger axe and was basically giving them an ultimatum -- Do it or Die.

This would be the point where the Shatterspear should have packed up and fled. They could have tried to talk their way into Moonglade, given teh new troll connections to the Cenarion Circle and the fact that not even Garosh is stupid enough to try and attack Moonglade.

Maybe the Moonglade idea is a bit of a reach. My point simply is that the Shatterspear weren't limited to choosing death by Sentinel or death by Orc. I sure know that I would have fled if the thug trying to 'recruit' me couldn't afford to launch a manhunt.

Thing is...with Garrosh....you'd take one step and he'd slice you for fleeing. So really, they didnt have a choice, especially since their numbers were almost nil to begin with.

Had it been anyone else, yeah they'd have more options.

Cerah wrote:Agreed, Cow.
My lowbie Alliance toons never had that much trouble questing, even in the areas that are supposed to be the equivelents to CR and TM ally-side -- Auberdine and Darkshire. I've never seen any Horde character do more than run through Darkshire and piss off a few guards.

You're lucky, mine did. Guess it depends on the server. On my Alliance servers there were constant organized raids on Astranaar, Auberdine and Darkshire, and they'd hold them for hours. In Hillsbrad there would be running battles between Tarren Mill and Southshore. And that was just in early '05 when 40 was considered high level.

Cerah wrote:Anyone who's played Horde, especially on pvp servers, knows that the Crossroads and Tarren Mill are almost constantly under attack.

My hearthstones on three chars are set to XR. In fact, it's the same for quite a few of my guildmates, and despite being a "casual" guild, we've become rather known for world PvP--which generally just begins with "The Crossroads is under attack!"

Any time someone attacks there, we usually have a handful of "first responders" there within a minute

Hasn't one of the issue with the Trolls always been that despite the fact that there are in fact many different tribes of them (Darkspear, Shatterspear, Zandalar, Gurubashi, etc...) that they've always been viewed as the same when in fact they're all very different tribes, and that technically only the Darkspear Tribe officially joined the Horde?

Agravaine wrote:

Cerah wrote:Agreed, Cow.
My lowbie Alliance toons never had that much trouble questing, even in the areas that are supposed to be the equivelents to CR and TM ally-side -- Auberdine and Darkshire. I've never seen any Horde character do more than run through Darkshire and piss off a few guards.

You're lucky, mine did. Guess it depends on the server. On my Alliance servers there were constant organized raids on Astranaar, Auberdine and Darkshire, and they'd hold them for hours. In Hillsbrad there would be running battles between Tarren Mill and Southshore. And that was just in early '05 when 40 was considered high level.

oh yes, back before they brought out Alterac Valley which was hated because people thought it was going to kill world pvp on pve servers...*sigh* the good ole days

Taluwen wrote: I was in Winterspring on Talu and I went to the horde flight master to see him dead and some flaggied allies nearby laughing. Three other hordes showed up and were as annoyed as me. So we ganked the bastard for killing our flight master then killed theirs.

So yes, alliance is just as bad.

A long time ago, we had a major Crossroads Flight Master killing issue. Then one day, a BIG Horde guild put a polite but firm ultimatum up in the realm forums and via Alliance low alts on general that every time the Crossroads Flight Master got camped they would go in raid and kill every Alliance Flight Master worldwide. They also advertised a "no camping flight masters" policy on Horde general/realm forums.

It happened twice. Then, Alliance players started policing themselves. (It all quieted down once BC hit.) It was brilliant.

Phoronid wrote:

Taluwen wrote: I was in Winterspring on Talu and I went to the horde flight master to see him dead and some flaggied allies nearby laughing. Three other hordes showed up and were as annoyed as me. So we ganked the bastard for killing our flight master then killed theirs.

So yes, alliance is just as bad.

A long time ago, we had a major Crossroads Flight Master killing issue. Then one day, a BIG Horde guild put a polite but firm ultimatum up in the realm forums and via Alliance low alts on general that every time the Crossroads Flight Master got camped they would go in raid and kill every Alliance Flight Master worldwide. They also advertised a "no camping flight masters" policy on Horde general/realm forums.

It happened twice. Then, Alliance players started policing themselves. (It all quieted down once BC hit.) It was brilliant.

Epic win. XD

Taluwen wrote:

Phoronid wrote:

Taluwen wrote: I was in Winterspring on Talu and I went to the horde flight master to see him dead and some flaggied allies nearby laughing. Three other hordes showed up and were as annoyed as me. So we ganked the bastard for killing our flight master then killed theirs.

So yes, alliance is just as bad.

A long time ago, we had a major Crossroads Flight Master killing issue. Then one day, a BIG Horde guild put a polite but firm ultimatum up in the realm forums and via Alliance low alts on general that every time the Crossroads Flight Master got camped they would go in raid and kill every Alliance Flight Master worldwide. They also advertised a "no camping flight masters" policy on Horde general/realm forums.

It happened twice. Then, Alliance players started policing themselves. (It all quieted down once BC hit.) It was brilliant.

Epic win. XD

Huh, kinda hard to believe. That is, the whole 'Alliance policing themselves' bit. Still, pretty funny