Guild Etiquette

[Sarantha]

I have no idea if I spelled etiquette right. Anyway, I was horribly insulted by a guildie and then put on ignore so there was no way I would make right whatever I did to deserve this insult. Since we are guildies, I spoke to the GM and asked if he could possibly ask the other guildie to remove me from ignore so we could possibly talk this out (no one likes being in a guild full of so much tension that members feel required to ignore one another to even play), but the guildie apparently declined and just logged out. What should I do in this situation? I have been in this guild quite awhile, have a few friends, and really enjoy it overall, and this person who insulted me was my friend until last night (unless this guildie decides to apologize for insulting me and we can work it out). Lets just say the insult involved us questing together and the guildie questing as a class that is insanely easy to solo with while I was questing with a (do I NEED to say it?) mage and we ran into some elites. As most mage players know, if we can't stay out of range of a powerful elite, there's pretty much no way we're gonna solo it at such a low level in bad gear (the mob in question was immune to frost nova) while the guildy's class can solo things very easily (I have one of that class as well, so I know this). This guildie pretty much says I'm a bad mage and its so easy to solo why I can't I or something along those lines. I was hurt by this (the guildie in question has NEVER leveled a mage past 20, as far as I am aware) and really don't understand their reasoning. Just because their class is capable of soloing a 5 man group quest doesn't mean that mine is.

Oh, and I DID solo it, quite easily, the FIRST TIME I even tried by myself while the guildie with their "so easy to solo with" class died at least once. I didn't stick around to watch if they died more. I think mages are JUST FINE for soloing elites, but sometimes, it is easier with another class, thats all. I was offended that this guildie would make assumptions about a class they don't even know and insult me based on this. I may be a mage. But I'm not just ANY noob mage. As a fellow guildie, do you not think this person should have talked to me about what they think I did wrong instead of outright insulting me?

Of course, I am not naming any names, due to the whole 'name and shame' thing, so I will leave that out. But, guild etiquette. Should guildies insult one another or attempt to talk to the person they think is in the wrong? I spoke to several other guildies, and they agreed with me that the guildie in question was way out of line insulting me the way they did and think that person was very, very mean to do so, since I am incredibly helpful and nice within my guild and my hunter channel and many people would not have gotten their pets if it weren't for me. I also outright give people gold occasionally. I paid this guildie who insulted me at current count, 600g. Really, if they're gonna keep insulting me, pay me back?

If you answer "Perfectly fine" you're an asshole.

[Bonita]

In my guild if things like that happens the gm tries to smooth things out and offers to have both people get into vent and talk things out while he listens and makes sure things don't get out of hand. I seriously think guildies should try to work out their problems. I really don't like the idea of guildies having another on ignore unless one of them is just completely immature. Then for the sanity of the other person and the guild I think its fine.

[Lisaara]

My guildies and I joke around a lot, in Gchat and in vent. But if someone gets literally insulting, we officers step in immediately because that kind of crap isn't tolerated.

[Nubhorns]

Honestly it kind of sounded like you were taking it too seriously - but then again, I'm very laid back with my gaming experience and I don't really know the whole story anyway.

I know if you're good at your class there's a lot of pride instilled there, but being 'offended' for long periods of time and waiting for them to apologize probably isn't a very good way to handle things. Unless they go apologize profusely you're still going to have a bruised ego for some time, and might stay mad at this person for who knows how long - which isn't really good for your health or that of the guild's. *shrug* Forgive and forget - but let them know you don't really appreciate being called bad. I'm all for playful ribbing on my guildies and I get the same in return, so make absolutely sure they weren't just screwing around with you. You said this person was a friend, so that would be my first guess...and if they were being serious, why are you still friends with this person?

[Sarantha]

This person had never played the class before, ever, as far as I know, so yes, I did take it pretty seriously and it was not said in a joking manner at all. I have no problem with jokes at all. All it would've taken is a quick "sorry!" or them explaining why they thought I did badly in the first place for me to just forget about it. As a guildie, however, I don't believe the insult should have taken place at all. Guilds are for friends. I'm an officer in my guild. My motto is "if you can't get along with another guildie, try talking to them" and I tell that to anyone who comes to me with a problem with another guildie. It works 90% of the time. Sure, there are going to be those people that just are not able to be talked to, but most of the time, talking about your issue will fix it or at least let you come to an agreement to just get along in guild, but don't go out of your way to do things/talk to each other unless raids/pvp requires it.

If you were there, Nubhorns, you'd think I wasn't taking it seriously enough, most likely. Its not so much me being too serious about my class, its the way the other person said it. There was no joking manner, there was no indication that they didn't mean what they said with every fiber of their being, just an outright, EXTREMELY rude insult that would have gotten them gkicked if I were the GM. I don't allow such behavior from ANYONE if I can avoid it, not just directed at me, directed at anyone. This person is VERY immature, however, so it could be the case of them not understand adult behavior and being unable to realize what is and isn't an insult. The person is not a child, just an extremely immature person who I thought knew better than to insult people in such a way. If I myself ever said something like that, the person in question would say I'm "mean" or "wow, that was rude!". I usually only say such things regarding the opposite faction doing something rude to me (ganking a pet, /spitting on anyone, etc) so its rare.

[GormanGhaste]

Give it time. When people are angry, they sometimes say things they regret. So your friend may have put you on ignore for time to cool off.

As for the poll, I find questions of etiquette to be more useful for improving my own behavior than other people's.

[Sarantha]

Yes, the poll is there for that too. I never insult guildies, but the time may come when I have to tell someone that what they are doing is wrong, and it is good to get an idea of how to go about it. So far, talking about it seems to be the best answer, which is what I always assumed. And joking insults are indeed fine in my opinion, unless the joke goes too far.

[Roxhunt]

Some people play a class better than others. You might be able to solo something on your mage that I can't on my mage whether we are the same level, same gear, etc. I say this because I have seen my husband solo something on his pally that I die halfway through on with my pally but I can solo it on my mage and he might not be able to solo it on his mage. Heck, my son (who is a early in his teens) can play a hunter better than me and solo things that I die quickly on. Everyone tends to play a certain class better than another class but it doesn't mean they are a 'bad mage'. I just try to assist anyone (not just guildies) when they need help. I know people have helped me when they probably could have done it without assistance.

I voted: you're guildies, talk it out because I had a similiar experence with a guildie. She cussed like a sailor (and I'm not sure that would be insulting sailors at this time to compare her to them) in guild chat. A four letter word that begins with f was her favorite word and she often bragged about being 'high'. In vent with her was much worse, believe it or not so I hated to raid with her as well. I wasn't the only one that thought she should tone it down but I was probably the most outspoken. I talked with her several times about the fact we did have younger guildies, I'd prefer not to be around that kind of language constantly, etc. She'd tone it down and then before long, she'd be back at it again. I finally asked the GM to address the issue with her and was told that we were all adults and if you had kids in the guild then you needed to understand that the guild would not baby sit the language. I put her on ignore on both my accounts and my sons account. I was later told that up to that point, that the guildie really respected me and liked me but not couldn't stand me. I told them she didn't respect me enough if she didn't respect the fact I'd prefer not to have that kind of language around me the whole time I was playing and I had nothing against her except the language and constant bragging about being high. Later, I was guild kick, with this being one of the reasons, that I just didn't jive with the guild and the way things were being run. I was upset at first because I'd been in the guild since 2007. Needless to say, I had lots of friends there too. The night I was kicked, over 15 toons left that guild. Many of my friends, without me asking, took a stand on how they felt about how things were handled. I'll admit, I didn't sleep for a couple of nights but time went on and I found out that there were other guildies without drama and that really played well together. People that are my friends that didn't leave my old guild when I was kicked, I still play ingame with them and we don't let the fact that we are in separate guilds interfer with our 'play time' together. I'm finally getting to enjoy the game again!

I told you to say: 1) you can leave the guild and find one that you don't have the drama in. 2) Continue to play and don't let the pettiness of another player interfer with your fun ingame.

I would think two mature people could work out issues, but sometimes, it's just no possible when the other one is not willing to admit they have a part in the problem!

[Worba]

It's hard to really say much about this without knowing exactly what each of you said - presumably if your guildmate put you on /ignore both of you feel that you were insulted by the other.

But I can say, generally speaking, that I do find the <insert pretty much anything here> is EZ!!1!!one!eleven!! thing rather cavalier, obnoxious and sometimes outright dimwitted (especially as people who make that sort of statement frequently are knowingly glossing over their own learning curve / mistakes / bad luck / etc in the process).

I've seen it used frequently as a passive-aggressive means of diminishing another player's achievements and magnifying their mistakes - honestly before someone opens their mouth to say such a thing, at least include supporting evidence for the statement - evidence that is relevant to the class in question, not one's own (if different class obv)...

[Sarantha]

See, I would have had no problem if this person had ACTUALLY EVER PLAYED A MAGE AT ALL, but they hadn't, so they had no right to insult me so thoroughly based on a class they've never touched. If it were from someone with mage experience as well, I would take the insult with a grain of salt and ask advice. This was from a person who DOES NOT and NEVER HAS played a mage. I have leveled 4 of them past 70 and 3 to 85, and I still do not claim to be an expert. I'm good with my class, but I still know there are people who are better. If this person had indeed played a mage before and raided with one for a long time, I definitely would have carried on with this person and not taken her insult to heart and instead asked for advice on what I could do to improve. ME leaving the guild isn't going to happen. I've been there longer and helped people much longer than she has. Just last night I helped the GM get Magria, for instance. They know what kind of person I am and they agree that this guildie who insulted me is an incredibly childish, immature person and if we can't get it talked out, she just might not belong in the guild. I have almost the entire guild on my side, I think, agreeing that her behavior was childish and wrong. This same person also caused another guildie to leave due to the insults. In my opinion, if this person's behavior continues, the GM should take action. The other person who left was a very good hunter and I miss talking to him. It was a rather large loss to me, since I liked the person. This person didn't even ask opinions, wait awhile and see if stuff cools down, nothing, he just outright left, so perhaps that was partly his fault, but it is really getting bad when one little kid can make two adults almost want to gquit over her childish and uncalled for insults.

[Nili]

Sounds like you're taking this a little too personally...

[Syleye]

I don't think we can judge if you were taking it to seriously or if the person was initially truly being a jerk. Without the "tone" of the conversation there's a lot we can miss, add tha,t we don't know the verbal or wriiten idiosyncrasies then its hard to say. That being said insulting a guildie in any way other than being playful is bad and if it can't be talked out and one of those people put the other on ignore they can kiss the guild goodbye.

[meepitco]

Often in my guild, I say "FU brick" since we honestly do stupid stuff...like trying to get the trash before Marrowgar down...
But it's not only does the officers, but guild leader to understand I am just joking (Along with the guildie, himself), we just have a good time.

But I've had similar experiences like it stated. One was a tank, and I was a healer. He was OT, I'm healing him. He dies, and starts swearing on vent calling me something like, "You mother f**king c**t, why the f**k didn't you heal me?" (This was in mid wrath, where druids were pretty much crap for heals, and I've forgotten what he really did say) This was offensive, speaking that my ex has called me that, and it was pretty emotional. But after leaving vent, and put him on ignore, I got a PST from his alt. I remember barely "Dude, I'm sorry for last night. I was pretty angry at family crap, and I forgot druids have pretty much crap heals." Well, I removed his main off ignore, and when we continued the raid, we got Freya in HM down

So I will say this:
Talk it out, you're guildies. If you cannot work it out, then why not just leave each other alone? I'm doing that since my former guild leader is in my new guild.
/end 5 minutes of nonsense

[Sarantha]

Thanks for the responses. I'm done with this topic for now. I will try and talk it out with the person if she ends up being reasonable (doubtful). If not, I have several officers and the GM both having agreed with me that she was way out of line, so I don't think its me that would have to find a new guild.

As for taking it too seriously...when you're in a guild for awhile, with people you like and thought you knew...well, it really takes you by serious surprise when one of those people suddenly gets out of character completely and goes apeshit on your ass. It was hard for me NOT to take it seriously. Perhaps I am wrong, though, I will give you that.

I'm done with this topic for now. I wanted a few opinions and most people agree that trying to talk it out is the best option, so I'll go with that. Thank you all.

WTB ability to close my own topic!

[Roxhunt]

I have almost the entire guild on my side, I think, agreeing that her behavior was childish and wrong.

I don't think either of you should involve the rest of the guild. You both should be able to just tell other guildies you are having a difference of opinion. There is NO reason for your guild to take sides or be asked to take sides in the matter.

ME leaving the guild isn't going to happen.

You've made up your mind on your actions so keep playing and having fun....and don't worry about it! Let it go! Sounds like it's really up to your GM now on how to proceed and what to do about the other guildie. You both can co-exist in the guild without being friends as long as you are respectful of each other. Since he has you on ignore, you probably don't have to worry about him being ugly in responses in guild chat so consider it a plus and not a negative!

I miss talking to him.

This is not the "problem" guildies fault.

Without the "tone" of the conversation there's a lot we can miss

I agree! I also believe that ingame, 'tone' is hard to catch even if you are a part of the conversation. Your guildie might not even have the same perspective on what happened as you.

Just play and have fun...don't worry about the other guildie or even how the GM handles it. What's done is done and apparently you feel you have done everything you can to work things out with this guildie. Time to move on unless a door of opportunity opens for you two to work it out!

[Sarantha]

I miss talking to him.

This is not the "problem" guildies fault.

Actually, it IS! Her insults made him leave. Her presence is causing a lot of friction in the guild. But you are right, from now I will leave it up to the GM on how to deal with it. As on officer my opinion matters, but it isn't the final decision. I can put in a good/bad word here or there, but the GM has the final say on how to deal with this problem.

[Roxhunt]

Actually, it IS!

Sorry...no it's not. You and your 'friend' don't have to be in the same guild to speak or even do things in game together. That choice is strictly between the two of you and no one else.

[Sarantha]

Actually, it IS!

Sorry...no it's not. You and your 'friend' don't have to be in the same guild to speak or even do things in game together. That choice is strictly between the two of you and no one else.

Lets agree to disagree. When most people are in a guild, the GM does not want friction between members and will usually get rid of the one causing the most problems. This person has almost caused two people to gquit. If I were GM, I would see that this person is not good for the guild and get rid of them.

I'm going to ask for this topic to be closed now. I asked for some opinions and I got them, so I'm done now. I really do not want to argue.

[Roxhunt]

Sorry....you misunderstood. I was just saying you and your friend who left are the ones determining whether you talk or not. The other person isn't responsible and can't prevent you two from talking. That's all I was saying. You're free to make choices.

I personally don't know the whole story so I wouldn't agree or disagree about whether he should be guild kicked. I've learned in life there are two sides to every story. I'm sure your GM will weigh both sides and make a mature decision based on the facts.