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Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:58 pm
by Slickrock
since I get criticized immensely every time I mention nerfs, I'll just say this...
The latest beta build brings our numbers lower than what they were before they initially buffed us. I'll let Z do the math, but wow.. it doesn't look good. These changes are going to hurt us while leveling. It looks like that want much more of our damage to come from the lvl 90 talents.
Now go ahead and say how bad I am and I complain too much and all that, I'll not comment or argue further.
Arcane Shot weapon damage reduced by 32% and additional damage reduced by 52%.
Glaive Toss base damage doubled, but the primary target will take 4 times as much damage from each strike, down from 8 times. AP scaling was doubled to 20%.
Serpent Sting damage was reduced by 20%.
Steady Shot damage was reduced by 29% and additional damage was reduced by 75%.
Talents
Barrage now has a 30 yd range, down from 40. Weapon damage to secondary target doubled.
Blink Strike damage bonus upon blinking tripled.
Glaive Toss now costs 15 Focus, down from 20. Damage bonus was halved.
Lynx Rush damage doubled.
Powershot damage to secondary targets doubled and Focus cost halved.
Thrill of the Hunt now has a 30% proc chance, down from 20%.
Beast Mastery
Beast Cleave now strikes all other nearby enemy targets for 30%, up from 25%.
Focus Fire now grants 6% haste per stack, up from 5%.
Kill Command damage and scaling reduced by 30%.
Beast Mastery & Survival
Cobra Shot weapon damage reduced by 30%.
Marksmanship
Aimed Shot weapon damage reduced by 30% and additional damage reduced by 51%.
Chimera Shot weapon damage reduced by 30% and additional damage reduced to 2,617.
Mastery: Wild Quiver weapon damage reduced by 15%.
Survival
Black Arrow damage and AP scaling reduced by 20%.
Explosive Shot damage reduced by 20%.
Pets
Bite Bite the enemy, causing (1.8 * (208 + 21% of RAP))) damage. 1.5 * (142 + 16.8% of RAP)) damage.
Claw Claw the enemy, causing (1.8 * (185.5 + 21% of RAP))) damage. 1.5 * (142 + 16.8% of RAP)) damage.
Smack Smack the enemy, causing (1.8 * (218 + 21% of RAP))) damage. 1.5 * (142 + 16.8% of RAP)) damage.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:08 pm
by Sasrei
Welcome to blizzard we were on top of the charts in beta for raids so hello nerfbat. I will hold out until we get some more info from hunters in raid but.. welcome to the hunter class where hunters with mad skills will be stuck trying to get close to the top, and new hunters get eaten alive.
It was nice to be on top even for just a lil while.. but like I said until real numbers come out its just speculation now.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:09 pm
by Taeliana
I am concerned about Survival...I have always loved the spec (shooting explosives and whatnot) and was very happy raiding as SV all this expac. Now it seems like it will be at the bottom of the hunter pile. I imagine we're going to be running as primarily BM/MM. I have very limited experience with BM (I only use it for screwing around while leveling and taming the fancy pets) and haven't liked MM at all since they put in the double steady shot mechanic when the class swapped to focus as a resource.
My theorycrafting capabilities are...uh...well, we'll be nice and call them
limited, lol. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of numbers Zeherah and the other Sim experts wind up getting so I can start really getting in some practice on whatever specs wind up being the premier raiding ones.
Even though these adjustments make it look as though hunters were gutted, we were performing far and away above the next best classes in most raid parses. I'm talking like, 30k dps above the number two spot. And, as I've said before, I'd rather ride the nerf/buff coaster while we're still in beta, rather than have to choke down changes on live

Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:14 pm
by Ziarre
Yeah, I'm gonna sit tight and see what the sims show us. We were ahead of everyone else in raids by an incredibly rediculous amount--this may be overkill, or it may be what's needed to bring us in line. All three specs seem to be hit fairly hard, we'll just have to wait and see
how hard. Had a feeling that massive Kill Command buff would be dialed back a bit, but I'm pleased to see Lynx Rush got some teeth (because it's fun and I like it dagnabbit). And like Taeliana, I'd rather deal with this now, in beta, where it's easier to change things with the next 'minor patch' a.k.a. beta build, than on live where we might have to wait until the next content patch if it's not game-breaking.
(Criticism, at least on my end, is directed at panicking, not mentioning nerfs.

)
Also! I found some GC posts.
Ghostcrawler wrote:We just did a pass on Hunter pet abilities, and took any that are expected to be kept up the whole time off the GCD. Also, if any had durations equal to their cooldown, we either reduced the cooldown or increased the duration, so that there’s some slush room for overlapping.
Ghostcrawler wrote:We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.
Priest -- Shadow roughly tuned.
Warlock -- roughly tuned except for Sacrifice.
Mage -- roughly tuned except Arcane and Invocation.
Druid -- Feral and Balance tuned except for Dream of Cenarius.
Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned.
Rogue -- tuned (but we'll look at Assassination numbers posted above).
Shaman -- tuned.
Hunter -- tuned.
We are working on monk, warrior and DK next.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:24 pm
by Neilaren
Hey at least Beast Cleave got buffed!
Eeeh? EEEEEH?
Taeliana wrote:I am concerned about Survival...I have always loved the spec (shooting explosives and whatnot) and was very happy raiding as SV all this expac. Now it seems like it will be at the bottom of the hunter pile. I imagine we're going to be running as primarily BM/MM. I have very limited experience with BM (I only use it for screwing around while leveling and taming the fancy pets) and haven't liked MM at all since they put in the double steady shot mechanic when the class swapped to focus as a resource.
Yeah, I've found MM to be pretty clunky during Cata too, and it certainly isn't changing much in Mists. D: I'll end up keeping my offspec as SV anyway. (It's pretty rare that my raid requires me to ever change specs...)
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:29 pm
by Equeon
I like hunters who are flexible in their specs; but honestly, although I love to have high DPS in raids and good performance in PvP, I'm not gonna let patches change what I enjoy. Despite all of the other minor goals I've set for myself ingame, overall, I play WoW for fun. I enjoy playing as a Beastmaster, and I personally will not change no matter the nerfs or buffs to other specs: otherwise I'll be even more unhappy.
So, I guess it depends on what kind of person you are: but if you're anything like me and tend to stick to one spec, don't let preliminary beta patches change you.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:35 pm
by Slickrock
Equeon wrote:So, I guess it depends on what kind of person you are: but if you're anything like me and tend to stick to one spec, don't let preliminary beta patches change you.
I wouldn't call less that 2 months to launch preliminary...
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:36 pm
by Slickrock
Taeliana wrote:Even though these adjustments make it look as though hunters were gutted, we were performing far and away above the next best classes in most raid parses. I'm talking like, 30k dps above the number two spot. And, as I've said before, I'd rather ride the nerf/buff coaster while we're still in beta, rather than have to choke down changes on live

That is an exaggeration that was perpetuated on the forums, on ONE FIGHT we were that much higher, otherwise we were the top spot, but not that high.
I hope the same hunters that were reporting those keep reporting with the changes.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:54 pm
by Slickrock
To be fair, other classes got nerfed too..
Locks, -8%
Shaman (ele), -10%
Paladins, -10% (ret is getting the shaft due to a nerf to tank damage overall)
Mage, might be a wash, Arcane will be more proccy
Boomkins -10%
So the 30% or more nerf we took is really closer to 20%, still a lot.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:54 pm
by Ziarre
Ghostcrawler wrote:We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.
Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:23 pm
by Neilaren
Slickrock wrote:That is an exaggeration that was perpetuated on the forums, on ONE FIGHT we were that much higher, otherwise we were the top spot, but not that high.
I knew I remembered something by GC, but it wasn't popping up anywhere, so I googled it...
I know it may come as a shock, but this forum is not our sole conduit though which to monitor player feedback. The twin strategies of "shh, don't admit we're overpowered" and "shh, don't let them know we're happy" are about as transparent as you would imagine. I would suggest leaving the psychological warfare at home and just be honest about how you feel (and as I said above, backing it up with evidence of some kind is vastly more helpful to us).
Regardless of whether or not people are posting, Blizzard KNOWS what may be grotesquely over or underpowered.
Just like Santa Claus.
(just what I was reminded of when I saw that.

)
But I mean, I just facerolled Sha of Anger with a group today with no prior knowledge of the fight for optimal talents, derp-a-dooing with adds, and still managed 7th on the total dps out of way more than 25 people. I've spent the day two-shotting level 90 sprites in Townlong Steppes for vegetables. Sure, I'm in the conquest set which is higher than what a fresh 90 should be wearing, but it's still too surreal for me, considering I'm just that way on Live right now in
End-Game raiding gear.
But, anyway, I'm still considering this preliminary. I mean, it's still beta. If the goals are "do any down-tweaking of damage before launch", I want that.
I also hope their 2-month goals include fixing all of the bugs I've been finding...! You can't really use Kill Command on Galleon. Now
that's cause for concern...

Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:28 pm
by Ziarre
Can't use Kill Command on the stupid pre-Ultraxion drakes, either. Annoys the blazes out of me to spend that entire trash gauntlet Arcane Shotting.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:35 pm
by SpiritBinder
Slickrock wrote:Now go ahead and say how bad I am and I complain too much and all that, I'll not comment or argue further.
Your so bad Slick!!! You complain to much!!! (did I do it right?)
But honestly, thanks for the update.
Slickrock wrote: I wouldn't call less that 2 months to launch preliminary...
That's true, but then if we look at the swings and changes we have gone through over the last month or two... who knows where we will end up in the next few..
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:58 pm
by Slickrock
Spiritbinder wrote:Slickrock wrote:Now go ahead and say how bad I am and I complain too much and all that, I'll not comment or argue further.
Your so bad Slick!!! You complain to much!!! (did I do it right?)
But honestly, thanks for the update.
Slickrock wrote: I wouldn't call less that 2 months to launch preliminary...
That's true, but then if we look at the swings and changes we have gone through over the last month or two... who knows where we will end up in the next few..
The really odd thing is that Arcane has gotta be lower now that when this swing all started.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:04 am
by Neilaren
There is one thing I can scratch my head about: Whenever a change to anything has to be made, it's always a drastic number.
It's just a very strange way of testing to shift into extreme one way, then the other, then back and forth in smaller variations each time.
Wouldn't it be easier to just tweak in very small increments like, up 1%. Oop not enough, up another 3%. Oh woop maybe 2%.
Maybe they really have the magical mathematicians that know exactly what crazy level needs to be adjusted to fit their goal, but you know that's never the case. XD
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:08 am
by Serendipity82
I'd rather hunter's get the nerfbat and retuned while it's still beta. So long as they don't do to any of the specs what they did to BM in Wrath (where it was so nerfed healers out dps'd them for the ENTIRE expac) then I am cool.
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:38 am
by Makoes
One thing that really confuses me about all these changes and fluctuations is how these newest numbers compare to what is on live now.
Ie) Spell "A" gets buffed by 260%, nerfed by 90%, buffed by 20%, nerfed by 40% = 150% buff
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:56 am
by Slickrock
Makoes wrote:One thing that really confuses me about all these changes and fluctuations is how these newest numbers compare to what is on live now.
Ie) Spell "A" gets buffed by 260%, nerfed by 90%, buffed by 20%, nerfed by 40% = 150% buff
It's even messier than than because of all the scaling changes.. no way to tell for sure at all. I'll be interested to see what Z's numbers show, they might take her a few days to figure out after this patch...
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:02 am
by Sickhuntz56
Personally VERY VERY excited for Triple Blink Strike dmg (:
And glaive toss buff!
And Lynx rush buff!
Re: Latest Beta build...
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:17 am
by Slickrock
Sickhuntz56 wrote:Personally VERY VERY excited for Triple Blink Strike dmg (:
And glaive toss buff!
And Lynx rush buff!
Aren't Blink and Lynx in the same tree?
Lynx still is lost potential unless you are in a group/raid situation, while Blink is only good on solo targets.
Blink will be nice for leveling/questing.