WoW Petopia Community

Preface: this post may make me sound old. Don't worry; it makes me feel old, too. I also want to the reader to keep in mind that this is all purely my opinion based on my experiences, and is no way aiming to lessen or devalue anybody or their chosen medium. That said...

The world these days has gone digital in basically every way imaginable. I'm sure you all know the people who still hang onto their collections of vinyl records, or lament the days of snail mail and handwritten letters. I've realized that I too am one of *those* people... but with art. The massive popularity of digital art is not a sudden surprise to me, but I suppose on some level, the seeming UNpopularity of traditional art has been catching my attention more often these days. Last year I made a deviant art account because I figured why not? In the week or so that I actively checked on it, I noticed that an overwhelming majority of the "newest deviations" or the ones that came up in randomizers were drawings done in photoshop/gimp/etc. Even right now each time I refresh the page, 9 out 10 images that isn't a massively edited photograph of somebody is a digital drawing (usually manga-inspired).

I have done a number of photoshop "paintings", and I definitely understand that time and effort and skill go into digital art - so those of you on this board who primarily use tablets and PCs, I hope you understand that I am not invalidating your talent! There are many wonderfully talented people on these boards. That said - having had a good amount of experience completing digital drawings and a great amount of experience in a variety of other mediums, my personal experience is that while digital "painting" is a skill, it is a skill that does not translate well into other forms of art. To elaborate - when I am drawing on a physical sheet of paper, my body is becoming attuned to the angles and curves that shape my subject. When I draw that same subject in photoshop with a tablet, the end result still has that same desired shape on the screen - but the movements of my hand did not correlate to the shape itself, if that makes sense. I created the silhouette I had hoped to, but my hand itself did not follow that contour, did not absorb it into muscle memory. When I shade a pencil drawing, my body learns to fine-tune the amount of pressure required for the desired effect; the tiny motions required for the proper texture. When I shade a photoshop drawing, I select a darker color, or simpler yet, use the burn tool. When I want a rougher texture I pick different brushes. Tablets have pressure sensitivity, but the more basic ones (I have a little bamboo tablet) is really like comparing apples to oranges. And regardless of the tablet quality, it never quite matches up as far as feel goes.

Creating art with paints, markers, pens/ink, pencils (colored or not), etc all share a similar foundation, and the skills acquired in the practice of each medium often directly translates to multiple other mediums. For the most part, digital art translates to... well, digital art. But personally, one of the greatest values of traditional art, in my experience, is being forced to learn from one's mistakes. I work in a field where mistakes are permanent so precision and creative thinking are key. One of the things I love about digital art is that I can create layers in photoshop to try out different color or lighting schemes, and if it doesn't turn out well, no problem! I'll just erase a portion of that layer or even the whole thing. Mess up a line? Undo! History brush! It can be very liberating - but I also discovered that being able to ctrl+z my mistakes wasn't teaching me anything. So I shelved my bamboo tablet and spent more time painting. My preferred medium and subject matter/style generally requires precision and very deliberate, clean application. This translates directly to my job, as well as forces me to find creative ways to turn mistakes into even better ideas that I never would have purposefully planned or new tricks (dropping the brush on the paper is fun!).

I know, I know - art supplies can be expensive. Like many of you might have, I had a photo editing program magically appear on my hard drive *ahem >.> * and got a $99 bamboo tablet as a gift. That's pretty inexpensive for the vast number of effects that one can simulate in digital art. I have thousands of dollars of traditional art supplies, which is incredibly expensive - but it was acquired bit by bit over the years with spare cash and 50% off Michaels coupons (which can be found online, every week, and Michaels also accepts AC Moore and Joann Fabrics coupons Great for big purchases). Then I spent ~$200 on a good printer and have sold enough art prints to cover that cost many many times over, as well as buy most of the art supplies I could want. Collections of good supplies can be built slowly over time - it doesn't have to be a huge lump sum purchase (which is very daunting and in the realm of impossibility when you're looking at that $327 set of copics at the art store).

Digital art has its place for sure. I think it's an excellent way to take a break from the confined space of a sketchpad or canvas, or simply a way to experiment without the risk of failure. But to those of you starting out with art, who have chosen photoshop as their path... pick up a couple sketchbooks and a set of prismacolor pencils too It will broaden your skill set and give you something to do in history class. I'm pretty sure I drew my way through every class I had in high school. Learn as many mediums as you can - the more you pick up, the easier the next one will be. Broaden your horizons, even if photoshop or illustrator will always be your favored tools. Experiment on paper, mess it up, and turn it into a "happy accident." Pick your favorite tools, brushes and colors from photoshop and figure out how to replicate those with paint, marker, colored pencil, ink. Study it and figure out everything you did wrong with it, and apply what you've learned to the next piece. And when you finish that drawing or painting, you can hold it in your hands and feel the energy that you put into it. You'll never feel that same energy in a computer screen. The .psd file will never have the soul that your hand-made creation does. And when you get to the point of selling your artwork for decent sums of money, a piece of art that the buyer can hold and feel will fetch FAR more than a copy of a file ever could

Thanks for reading (if any of you made it this far). I hope the intent of my message was clear and that I didn't hurt anybody's feelings. I enjoy seeing the artwork posted in this section (digital art too!) and look forward to seeing more of it. It makes me happy to see so many people (especially young people) with a passion for art. Hell, I don't know how I would've survived adolescence without art!

I completely understand where you're coming from and agree with it. Although I am stepping into learning digital art, as pretty as many pictures are that I have seen, nothing compares to the shear purity of physical art. The souls and effort that went into something that does not have an "undo" button, the time it took to draw every single mark on that paper, every single stroke of the brush, to have complete control over the depth and detail...

I will always prefer the joy of pencil to paper over pen to tablet anyday. Very much of the time I will sit down and draw sketch after sketch after sketch, doodles after doodles on paper, and maybe, for every 50-100 sketches I do, I might attempt one digitally. But the digital pen never quite gets that line right, never blends in just that right place, nor does the paper turn to just that right angle. Digital art has some really amazing outcomes, and requires great skills to accomplish but it does not compare to art that has no undo button, has only one layer, and every stroke is permanently committed.

Heck, hardly a page of any of my school work ever escaped a doodle, through elementary school, all the way into collage (my fellow class mate where forever borrowing my notes because they were so neat, but several asked my why there was a tree and a deer winding up the side of my notes on salmon reproduction. Or a Dragon curling its way around notes on water flow in tanks.)

They both have their upsides and their downsides. I do disagree with the not being able to sell your digital art. The art shows I go to all the digital art is printed on high quality paper and it sells very well. They always sell for good money too.

Also I really disagree on the energy part. It all depends on the person. I know a lot of people who don't feel that kind of energy with pen and paper but do with their digital art.

I'd just like to say thank you for taking the time to write this up. It's obvious that you're very passionate about art and that's always a wonderful thing to see. And, may I just say, you do some absolutely stunning work. I took a brief look at your personal website and there's some marvellous stuff there, your facial construction in particular is stunning.
But, with that said, I fear that I must bring up a counter argument to some of the points you've addressed, in particular that working digitally is somehow less "pure", to roughly sum up your post. That producing a piece of art through the use of stylus and software will never compare to paint and canvas. I find those points to be flawed and I hope to try and shed some light into why.

Firstly, a bit of my own past when it comes to my artwork. I've drawn for a good majority of my life, it's always something that I've done. However, it's only in recent years that I've made the decision to study the craft more seriously and to take the strides needed to really improve my skills and hone them into something I can be proud of. I still have a long way to go, and sometimes the sight of the metaphorical mountain I have before me still wears down upon my enthusiasm to create, but it has been a real joy to keep going and look at just how far I've come.
I made the switch to primarily digital artwork a couple of years back, and it's mostly for the reasons that you listed as positive tools with the medium. It's very forgiving when it comes to mistakes, I don't have to worry about a lack of materials or space in which to work or store previously mentioned materials. It's certainly a more "convenient" way of creating art, with all your tools a few clicks away.

But I would hesitate to call it soulless, just because my colours are made of pixels rather than coloured graphite, that unless I have something physical in my hands, it won't be as rewarding. I have spent hours working on both traditional pieces and on digital, and I can say that I have felt the same surge of pride in my work in both. I can honestly say that there have been days that I have kept my browser up on my DA page just so I could stare at a finished piece. And whenever I did, I said to myself "Hey, I created that! This is a picture from my brain given form, and I love that I have the ability to do this."
And there have been times when a .psd file was corrupted, or the program crashed before I could save it. And the bitter rage that resulted, the hopeless sorrow over losing something that I had put a little of myself into was just as heart-crushing as having my traditional work torn up/crumpled/ruined.

You are right in that digital painting is nothing like what you do with a brush or a pencil (Outside of construction anyway. Learning the anatomy of the human figure by drawing in photoshop will certainly help you draw one on paper). But then, painting is nothing like print-making, and that is in turn nothing like sculpting, or pottery, or needlepoint, or composing music or anything else in this big wide world that we can call "art". It is merely different, with different conventions, methods and tools. I argue that this does not make it any less valid than any other medium. It is the effort that goes into a piece of art, the little bit of yourself that you place into your work, that gives it a "soul". Not what it's made out of.

Yes, I agree with your basic point. If you're a digital artist, go out and buy some paint tubes and some good paper and experiment. Buy some clay while your at it too, or some fabric and thread or anything else you've never worked with before, and give it a go. Not because you'll come up with a something that'll feel intrinsically more pure than your digital work, but because you love to make art. Trying new things and broadening your horizon as to ways of making art is one of the most rewarding experiences you can go through. Sure, it can be frustrating at first, when you don't know how to work with the medium, but so are all things that are worth learning.
There is a great value to drawing on paper, as you so eloquently put it, and it's certainly a value worth learning. But there's also a value in working in a digital medium as well. Neither is better than the other, merely different, and I'm of the opinion that that is a wonderful thing.

*Starts to type*
*reads Moon's response*
Echoing Moon. I adore art, digital and traditional. I work with traditional art all the time, both by just sketching and by working on full out projects for class and for fun. It's where I started, and it's still an avenue I'm pursuing. But for me, digital is my favored medium. I can do a lot with traditional materials that I can't do with digital, but it definitely goes both ways. With digital, I can get around my intense hatred of water colors, and my dislike of acrylic paint. Those dislikes aren't things I can just forge past- it actively lowers the fun I have with art, so digital is a blessing. Digital is, for me, not really a new kind of art. It's just a medium like anything else.

That isn't to say you have no point- you definitely have some very, very valuable thoughts and I'll definitely take quite a few of them to heart.

If I ever draw anything, I do it on paper. Maybe because I actually like being a bit personal with my art. Maybe because my hand seems to go stiff when I try to use the mouse to draw anything on screen. The thing is, I do prefer art done the old-fashioned way, but I can admire the amazing stuff people do with digital art (and only wish I could do it as well).

These are all great responses and I really value everyone's point of view! My comment regarding the energy in the artwork was probably not very clear. What I meant was this: I believe that when you draw or paint on a physical surface (paper, canvas, or when you sculpt or craft etc) your energy is transferred into what you're creating. You are physically applying the material to the canvas. While digital art still requires a ton of energy and soul to create (which is definitely not something I am overlooking or undervaluing!), your energy is transferred to... a tablet, then a usb cord, then your computer, program and file... It's like 6 steps away from Kevin Bacon. You know the guy who knows the guy but you don't know Kevin Bacon. I realize that this view may be really out there, but I believe that the energy transferred into the physical piece of art has power over its viewer - and it can be a positive energy or a negative energy.

Moo - I definitely agree that digital art has its place. And as I know you do animation, I would image it holds a great deal of value to you. I agree that for any artist interested in digital media, understanding the programs and tools available is absolutely valuable. My point was less about moving away from digital art and more about including multiple mediums and experimenting with more forms of traditional art, as each one strengthens and develops different skills. Also in regards to selling art at shows - any art at any show is going to be priced high. I think most people would be hard pressed to sell .psd files or prints of such for comparable sums of money outside of galleries, though. But then, I could be wrong.

I guess the tone of my post came across that I feel traditional art is "better". I don't know if that is an accurate statement of my feelings - simply because art is so personal, opinions on it are bound to be biased. I personally prefer to look at and purchase/trade for traditional art, absolutely. But I wouldn't say that means it's BETTER. Someone who creates amazing pieces of digital art (that blizzard fan artist "Tooth" comes to mind immediately) is no less of an artist to me because he or she uses a computer to create his work. Hell, looking at his stuff makes me consider brushing off my tablet once in a while. But I suppose it also just makes me want to see what he could do on canvas.

And, as always, this is all just my opinion and my personal views and experiences. I'm glad to hear the thoughts and experiences of other people - it's much more fun and worthwhile than living in my own head. Thanks for the great food for thought everyone, and I hope to hear more input!

Art is like music to me it can't be compared to anything even in it's own genre. It's a personal choice a lot of people can't really understand themselves why they like one thing or another it's just what moves them. For me personally while I love to use conte and sketch these are unfinished things. I love them too it's like how the inside of a watch can often be more beautiful and fascinating than the outside, but for my personal stuff I look at art on paper as the skeleton and it's only made flesh and real by the digital side.

The only beef I have with digital is that people rarely buy my traditional art. I was forced to used digital at one point in my life and I hated it, feels like I have no control on what I WANT sometimes. There's just that feeling you can't get when you work with pastels and have the feel of it on your finger tips or the way pencil looks on different types of paper.

Yes I did read everything in the thread but I would have given the same answer everyone else did. I would say more abut why I don't like digital but I'm probably just going to offend someone here.

And all since it was mentioned here...all art as soul. If you put your blood sweat and heart into it, it has soul.

I feel like in the grande scheme of things, though, it should focus less on digital vs. traditional and which one is more "pure" or has more "energy or soul" put into it and more should focus on "Wow these people made some great things".

I keep up a pretty good mix of both. The only art people ever see is my digital work, but that's only a matter of convience, as I'm prone to picking up a sheet of lined paper or an old assignment I don't need off the floor, grabbing a pencil, and having at it. There's sort of a distinction I personally make in that when I use traditional art, you're right, there is some degree of freedom. Except it's more in the sense that no one will ever see my traditional art. So I can make awful anatomy, or draw new poses, or do this or that as freely as I want, without having to meet some sort of expectation.

Despite that though, with digital art, there's an inherent expectation to meet. People I know do great digital art. I have to do great digital art. Thereby, I try very hard to critic the hell out of myself whenever I do digital. (The effectiveness of that is a whole 'nother story.) Which is a sort of inherent instinct of any artist, I just managed to split between the two. But that's still good, because it means there's a set quality I want to reach. I can't just crap out and try and put up some nonsense whenever because I want it to look good because it's digital because all of these other great people do digital. It pushes me in its own degree, I guess.

What this rambling is sort of trying to kind of get at is that it's not fair to say one is better than the other. People have different style, preferences, and other sort of means to do art that don't translate well on digital, or on paper. Instead of comparing the two, I feel like artists should keep a balance of both. Just because you don't have your computer handy, doesn't mean you can't draw. Draw on assignments, doodle in margins, sketch on spare pieces of paper, and only feel shame when you've drawn all over that in-class essay you have to turn in.

And when you get home, draw all over the computer. Draw circles and shapes and creatures and play with effects and learn to shade and do whatever you want. There's a freedom in both, and saying one is better than the other or attempting to firmly stick to one medium and never try the other or dismiss the other as "outdated" or "newfangled" is pointless in the end. Great art comes from both. Do great art from both. And do whatever the hell you want because hey, it's art.

...whoops I sort of went on a Neil Gaiman hook at the end there. And uh, sorry if this doesn't make sense or isn't relevant. xD

Qinni wrote:The only beef I have with digital is that people rarely buy my traditional art.

If I had the money to spend on art and not...well, bills, I would totally buy traditional art over digital. I'm no artist myself, but I absolutely love works of art made on paper or a canvas.

But then, I love the digital stuff I see on here, too. I guess it's just if I had $100 and could spend it on a piece of art made with paint/pencil/etc., or something from a tablet, I would probably buy the paint/pencil/etc. one every time. It has a timelessness to it or something.