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Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:19 pm
by Lisaara
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2079562/ ... 1481237582
TotalBiscuit's vid about the 'blitz'
Angryjoe's vid about the blitz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1ubSVMwaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkbktDbEu7Y
Youtube Responded
I felt this deserved it's own thread. I can't tell you how much this outrages me. If you read the article, many of our favorite gaming channels got slammed hard because of this stupid robot. Totalbiscuit, Angry Joe, Pewdiepie, etc. It's Youtube flagging, not the companies themselves. AngryJoe had like...62 of his vids flagged and removed, which removes his revenue. Most of our beloved channels make money with their vids for a living and Youtube is destroying it. Hell, TB got slammed by THQ copyright claims....when that company no longer exists as they went out of business earlier this year.
On the bright side, many of the gaming companies seem to be fighting Youtube on this including Capcom, Ubisoft, even Blizzard. This makes me happy to see them stepping up to defend our beloved gaming channels. Blizz even gave instructions to any of the wow vid people to contest it so they can get white listed.
In my personal opinion, Youtube has NO right to be doing something like this. Most of the gaming companies (and by most, I mean about all except Nintendo) like the publicity and have no problems with people showing gameplay on their channels. It's free publicity for them! It's not youtube's place to be flagging on behalf of companies that would never have done it in the first place!
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:32 pm
by Wain
With the internet so huge, it's grown beyond what humans in companies can manually do to "handle" it. So they tend to err on the side of "punish the innocent to catch all the guilty". Fortunately the Electronic Frontiers Foundation is pretty strong in fighting this kind of stuff, as individuals would have little hope of doing it.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:37 pm
by Lisaara
Wain wrote:With the internet so huge, it's grown beyond what humans in companies can manually do to "handle" it. So they tend to err on the side of "punish the innocent to catch all the guilty". Fortunately the Electronic Frontiers Foundation is pretty strong in fighting this kind of stuff, as individuals would have little hope of doing it.
I'm really hoping this gets enough attention that the media looks into it and puts Youtube under fire.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:43 pm
by Castile
Thats horrible. I was pretty outraged when they started sticking adds on videos but banning gamers from promoting games? just wtf. Its like saying "lets arrest everyone from the 80's because they owned a VCR and recorded tv" because technically that was illegal
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:47 pm
by Lisaara
Pretty much, Cas. It's utter BS!
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:58 pm
by cowmuflage
I think there is a difference between something like using content for a review purpose like Angry joe and and something like a Lets play when it comes to making profit from it.
I think review content should be fine because that's something done in many other forms of media but I've always found making money from Lets plays extremely iffy. If a company wants to take down a lets play? I think they should because it's their copy right. It's not using content for review purposes. I think sometimes people should ask a company if they can use their content. Acting like a professional and asking does wonders and I'm sure if someone asked a company "hey can I make a let's play of your game?" they would go "yes!"
I dunno it's very murky this. I mean no side is 100% in the right legal wise. I mean after all not every reviewer and lets player make money from this now do they? Nope. :/
Edit: I just want to make it clear a review and a let's play are not the same. A let's play is someone playing a game and talking over it. They don't review it.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:44 pm
by Wain
cowmuflage wrote:Edit: I just want to make it clear a review and a let's play are not the same. A let's play is someone playing a game and talking over it. They don't review it.
Yeah, I guess that's a tricky area. Reviews should be 'fair use' but that doesn't stop companies (or copyright trolls that don't even own the copyright but purport to act for them!) sending take-down notices knowing that most people will be too scared or too poor to fight for their rights.
Seriously, if they rounded up every copyright trolling company and ground them all into fertilizer, the world would be a better... no wait, they'd probably still find a way to poison the soil.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:55 pm
by cowmuflage
Indeed. Copyright trolls are terrible! They are the people who have made "copyright" a bad word nowadays :/
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:29 am
by Lupis
What I see as the worst part about all this is that all the revenue from flagged videos go to the companies, not the video's creator. But what about people like Robbaz and Nerd Cubed? They make their living off of their videos. That's their job, youtube videos. And now Youtube can, at any point, take that away- against the wishes of the company that gets the money!
Ah well. Yet another terrible decision on Youtube. I'm becoming more and more sick of the website.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:49 am
by cowmuflage
I could see this turning out with something along the lines of some of the revenue goes to the video makers and some going to the people who make the games themselves.
What shocks me is that people did not see this coming. Making videos with other peoples content( IE games) has been an extremely grey area Legal wise since day one.
Like so many people did not see this coming and you'd think if you make your living off this you'd of known this could of happened :/
You should always have a plan B. Like hell Blip is a better video site anyway why not just use that?
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:59 am
by Lupis
Oh, it's always been grey area, but the companies themselves generally have turned a blind eye to it. In general, people using their content and getting lots of views is *fantastic* advertisement for the company- and they don't pay a dime! The new flagging thing will most likely mean companies will be losing money because there will be fewer game reviewers/Let's Play people. And often people rely on Let's Plays or reviews to see if they want to bother buying a game.
Really just not good for a lot of game and movie companies. :-/
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:00 am
by Castile
Copyright law in itself is abit of a minefield :/ I can't really see this ending well for either party tbh.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:02 am
by cowmuflage
That's true. So is Fanart because that's breaking copyright law too.
Ah well. I think it's best to move web sites IMO! A lot of people I follow like Angryjoe have their videos on more then one site. Most of reviewers use Blip for these reasons XD
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:31 am
by Lisaara
I edited the post with some more vids on the topic but many are thinking of switching to Twitch.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:21 am
by AdamSavage
cowmuflage wrote:That's true. So is Fanart because that's breaking copyright law too.
Ah well. I think it's best to move web sites IMO! A lot of people I follow like Angryjoe have their videos on more then one site. Most of reviewers use Blip for these reasons XD
Copyright laws are very outdated, and need a major revamp. The copyright laws have not caught up with the current times. Seems everything and anything can be copyright violation. You have people on you tube speeding up songs they use in video's, so you tube doesn't catch it and slap them with a copyright notice. I think even if a song is playing in the background, could be a copyright. violation. It's really ridiculous.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:33 am
by Sukurachi
AdamSavage wrote:I think even if a song is playing in the background, could be a copyright. violation. It's really ridiculous.
If someone is using something that I created, in their video, and making money off of it, without my permission, I see that as VERY much a violation.
Copyright law is there to protect the creators of content.
Are there adjustments that need to be made? Yes.
Do those adjustments include allowing anyone to do anything they please with whatever copyrighted material they want, simply because "copy right laws have not caught up with current times"? No.
If a song is used as background for someone's video, and that song is being used without permission, then yes, that IS a violation.
******
on the topic of game videos: I think game makers should make clear and public what they do or don't permit as "legitimate" use of their material. If they (like Blizzard, for example) allow people to make demo videos and whatnot, then it has to be clearly spelled out so that creators of those videos at least have a written legal defence with which to strike back at something like Yootoob.
The truth is, if YouTube actually enforced copyright law as it should be, there would be less than 1% of the material on the website, and they would have nearly no traffic. The vast majority of videos posted to YouTube are in fact infringing in some way or other someone's copyright. In the final analysis, YouTube are shooting themselves in the foot.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:49 am
by Wain
Sukurachi wrote:AdamSavage wrote:I think even if a song is playing in the background, could be a copyright. violation. It's really ridiculous.
If someone is using something that I created, in their video, and making money off of it, without my permission, I see that as VERY much a violation.
Yeah, I think he meant "background" as in incidentally. Like you're filming in a shopping mall and that happens to be on the speakers at the time.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:00 am
by Sukurachi
Wain wrote:Sukurachi wrote:AdamSavage wrote:I think even if a song is playing in the background, could be a copyright. violation. It's really ridiculous.
If someone is using something that I created, in their video, and making money off of it, without my permission, I see that as VERY much a violation.
Yeah, I think he meant "background" as in incidentally. Like you're filming in a shopping mall and that happens to be on the speakers at the time.
I'm not sure that was the intent of the comment.
I've seen enough WoW "how to" videos that are accompanied with songs off heavy metal CDs or some other such stuff, instead of the actual soundtrack of the game.
In my opinion, that is a wrong use of the material.
Either it's a WoW video, using the music that goes with the game, or it's not.
And just to be clear here, copyright law would not impact a video taken in a shopping mall where the music is part of the ambient sound. Which is a completely different situation from filming a band/orchestra/performer doing a show at a shopping mall with the specific intent of filming their performance and the music in question.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:05 am
by Kööna
I got angry as soon as Google+ and Youtube merged.
Re: Youtube using robot to autoflag vids
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:37 pm
by AdamSavage
Sukurachi wrote:If someone is using something that I created, in their video, and making money off of it, without my permission, I see that as VERY much a violation.
I agree, if the person is making money off it. This isn't always the case on you tube. I can make basically a picture video, and use a song for it. Soon as I upload it, I'm hit with a "Matches third party content." Luckily nothing more then that comes out of it. People make remixes all the time of songs, and are hit with the same thing. Sometimes either you tube gets it wrong, or you have some copyright troll making a bogus claim.