Reviving the Uniqueness of Hunter Pets

[Nanotrev]

Posting this for review by hunters.

DISCLAIMER: I wrote this on no sleep but wanted to get my thoughts out before I lost them.

I'll tell you what I liked, to start this on a positive note. Not that it will get negative except for the improvements I, in my opinion think could be done.

First off I liked pet loyalty. It gave me the feel that even though it was in a game that my in-game pet wasn't going to leave me for someone else that had food as well not to mention it was a reward for me to feed my pet and get higher DPS. It made me more involved in being a hunter instead of a warlock where their demons are bound to them and can't get away with the exception of the doomlord.

Feeding my pet also went with Blizzard's philosophy that for how powerful my pet was that it would require some time to be invested in keeping my pet that strong. Leveling my pet further reinforced this as did going out and training the pet specials.

Now comes the uniqueness of having a certain kind of pet. I enjoy that they bring unique buffs to the table and that they're just as strong as the big kid buffs. In the past I enjoyed the debate of which was better. Gore, or Charge? (if I remember correctly) Ravager or Boar? (Ravager was better) Running to the Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles to get a Ravager with a knockdown was a status symbol of sorts to lowbie hunters and even those re-leveling a hunter on a new server. It wasn't so much as one pet being better than another but the fact that they had different, unique abilities to bring to the table. Some examples.

Warp stalkers had warp. It allowed them to have a very high dodge chance for the next four attacks done onto them after they used it. There was no need for Blink Strike. They held their own, but in a different way. Ravagers had something similar though I can't remember what it was called. It was a short two second stun that functioned more as an interrupt than anything else. Scorpid venom was also much more interesting in its mechanic.

It wasn't so much the damage people craved (until later on when scorpids would rival ferocity pets) but the fact that it made it harder for healers to remove the Widow Venom from themselves. It wasn't that one pet was better than the other so much as their abilities were significantly different. Can anyone tell me how much thought they put into which pet they bring nowadays? Who has used Feed Pet since the changes made to it?

Now however, pets feel like a white item. They require no feeding, no loyalty or leveling. They're simply present at our side like a vanity item that gives a buff to our damage. I'm not asking for a 1-100 leveling grind for my pet but to have something that makes me put effort into my companion would be nice. I see that in Warlords of Draenor it's an option to not have a pet at all for the end talent. That's neat, but as a BM hunter I don't really feel it should be an option for my spec.

Shouldn't the pet talent trees be like the current player trees as they used to be? I really miss the fact that I was able to customize my pet a lot more than I'm able to now.

It's not always mechanics that players think about, as you can see from the excitement the new player models have caused. I'd really like it if the Blizzard development team took what I have said here into consideration because it was back in the old days I felt compelled to play a hunter and had pets with abilities that would inspire lowbies to roll a hunter as well.

Please, stop giving us more utility than we know what to do with and improve upon the pet experience which made hunters what they were in the first place. I'd be happy to sacrifice some abilities if it made the other ones stronger and of higher quality. If I wanted to play a warlock I would have just rolled one of those and as fun as warlocks are I prefer some of the old feelings of hunter nostalgia that having pets once brought to the hunter class.

[GormanGhaste]

I did really enjoy hunting down pets that could teach me special pet abilities. Of course, that meant we had to save a pet slot for temporary pets until max level. Not a big deal now, but it certainly was back when we only had two stable slots!

I don't miss pet loyalty, but I do miss pet happiness that maximized dps.

I think the pet talent trees were a casualty of having larger pet stables.

[Sukurachi]

You know what I wouldn't miss?

Getting kicked from a dungeon group because I had the "wrong pet" with me.

Having to absolutely have a specific pet because its abilities are "required".

Getting made fun of and ridiculed for having a pet which I like the look of, because for whatever reason that pet has the "wrong" abilities.

And having to carry around food for myself, AND food for my pet? No way.

Yeah, no thanks, I wouldn't go back to the way it was ever again.

[Kurasu]

It wasn't so much as one pet being better than another but the fact that they had different, unique abilities to bring to the table.

However, the problem is that one pet *was* better than another. Back then, I had a wind serpent, because wind serpents were the best pet. Plain and simple. There was no question as to what did more damage: wind serpents. If you wanted max DPS in a raid, you had to use a wind serpent.

No, while I would enjoy having different abilities, in a game like this, I prefer the way it is now. Instead of one pet offering better DPS, pets offer buffs for the party. You still may need to bring a specific pet, but at least that 'specific pet' is much easier to take with you since you can take up to 5 spare pets.

How much thought have I put into what pets to take? More than I used to. Back then, I took a wind serpent. Period. No thought needed: I took a wind serpent. Now, I carefully pick frmo my pets to ensure that I have necessary party buffs, and if it's not needed, I take pets that I *want* to take. I can take Panzer into a raid and have him do max DPS? Hell yes! I'll do that in a heartbeat!

[Nanotrev]

You all bring up excellent points.

Lets word it this way then. Due to the specs that are currently available would you like to see more unique abilities? I'm surprised nobody has chimed in on the whole thing about the bloat of our action bars.

Also, to clarify the whole pet ability thing I mean things not only like warp but for scorpids to get their poison back or to have a ravager obtain a bleed effect that also gives it 5% increase to physical damage. The bleed effect wouldn't have a DoT per say but instead some utility against a certain class. What about pet abilities that unlock to BM hunters? These are ideas. Take them for that. Do not get all up and flustered that Blizzard is going to take my word and suddenly revert everything back to where it was.

To add one last point to this particular post, what about pets with a specific ability that didn't boost damage but instead happened to be something which would emulate what another class already had? A Devilsaur with a shortened version of fear would be fairly interesting. These thing, in exchange with taking a bit of bloat out of our bars for certain specs or hunters altogether.

[Nanotrev]

Something to think about.

I use your opinions when I make posts on the official forums. In a week or so I'll probably be done toiling over everything everyone has said and attempt to make something a little more official out of it instead of just plastering it wherever. A little story for you if I've not told it before is that I felt very strongly about having my own AQ40 battle tank. I missed the chance for it and since it was so old there were very few people who had it. Because of this one could demand a high price for their account when that sort of thing was more common. A friend of mine told me (he had the mount) that nobody should ever get the chance again and if it were re-implemented that it be as hard to get as the Thunderfury.

Not a month later, he sold his account.

I decided to bring up the point that very few scarab lords tended to remain and the ones that did continue to be active were possibly accounts that had been bought. I also took in my pal's two cents that it should still be hard to get and included that as well. This was during the early stages of the Mists beta. Low and behold what came of my suggestion. It was also no the first time I had posted on the topic. I believe it was my second or first, during which the first received so much negativity that I decided to rethink things as well as re-word them.

So, in short I'd like your ideas on this as many of you have already (some more vocal than others) probably figured out. I hardly see any pet variety on Hakkar, Darkspear, or Wyrmrest though I'm going to Orgrimmar now and later today to check things out and see who is running around with what just so that I'm certain of what I should put in my "official" statement of what I think.

[Kurasu]

Actually, I see a *lot* of pet flexibility nowadays. Way more than I did in the old days. More people have a variety of different pets than they used to, from what I have seen, thanks to people being able to take whatever pets they would like with them.

When you say that you don't see pet variety, what pets do you see? What's the one pet that everyone seems to be using? I can compare it to what I see on my server(s) more specifically.

Of the hunters I walked by in less than an hour (and not counting me, who has a turtle), I see: two cats (Skarr and a cheetah-type), two spirit beasts (Karoma and Skoll), bear (a basic brown bear), beetle (brown scarab), and two hunters with no pet out at all (one of who says they usually use a wolf).

The only place I tend to see 'nonflexibility' are that a lot of Beast Masters I see have spirit beasts. That has nothing to do with their power, and everything to do with the fact they're rare. People want to show off their 'trophies'.

Lets word it this way then. Due to the specs that are currently available would you like to see more unique abilities? I'm surprised nobody has chimed in on the whole thing about the bloat of our action bars.

I would not. I would rather see more selection of abilities in the character leveling, and let the pets stay as they are. I don't want a pet to select what abilities I have; I want *me* to select what abilities I have, and be able to take along the pet I feel bonded to, with some small adjustments for the buffs they bring to the party.

As for why no one chimed in on the bloat of action bars, I didn't because the discussion was about pets; not about our action bars. Pet has nothing to do with 'action bar'. Giving the pet additional abilities would only bloat the pet's action bars, and they're already too bloated as it is. I have a lot of pet abilities that I keep on autocast just because it can't fit on the pet bar.

[Lisaara]

You know what I wouldn't miss?

Getting kicked from a dungeon group because I had the "wrong pet" with me.

Having to absolutely have a specific pet because its abilities are "required".

Getting made fun of and ridiculed for having a pet which I like the look of, because for whatever reason that pet has the "wrong" abilities.

And having to carry around food for myself, AND food for my pet? No way.

Yeah, no thanks, I wouldn't go back to the way it was ever again.

^ This, pretty much and I agree with Kurasu 100%. I'm fine with how pets are now. I like being able to bring whatever I want, when I want. There's so much more flexibility than before. I despised being told I HAVE to bring a wolf or I HAVE to bring a Devilsaur. I HAVE to be SV. You get the point.

I don't miss the pet talent trees. Why? They were a waste of time. Most hunters used the exact same specs anyway. Very very few actually deviated from it(let alone get away without ridicule about it). I dont want pet leveling back. It was the biggest PITA and a very big turn off to even tame anything new. Can you imagine having to level a level 5 pet you tame to level 90? I wanna bang my head against the desk just thinking about how hellish and not to mention tedious that would be. I miss pet happiness only a smidge cause I liked seeing the smilies but I didn't like that it controlled my DPS. It was like a knife to my neck. No thanks.

Pets are unique, every single one of them. Just because you see one more than the other or it doesnt have a special ability doesn't make them less special. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will replace my memories with my pets. The first time I tamed Loque, my Ban'thalos being server first on MG, etc. They're special to me. I don't give a cats meow what anyone else thinks of them.

As for button bloat, well this isn't a topic about button bloat. It's about pets.

[GormanGhaste]

I did enjoy having pet talent trees. Sure, there were cookie-cutter builds, but some flexibility was there if you wanted to do something different.

I don't think we will ever have them again, but wouldn't it be interesting if pets had a talent tree structured similar to our current MoP ones?

[Lisaara]

I did enjoy having pet talent trees. Sure, there were cookie-cutter builds, but some flexibility was there if you wanted to do something different.

I don't think we will ever have them again, but wouldn't it be interesting if pets had a talent tree structured similar to our current MoP ones?

Now if we had MoP trees for pets, that might be interesting. I'd just want them to not be a dps increase or something. I'd want it to be flexibile like extra healing, roots and stuns have shorter duration, or something like that.

[Bowno]

I've been thinking this same thing for a long time now D:
I hate the new way pets are. Hell, I even miss it being possible for pets to run away if they weren't happy. It took a lot for them to run away, but at least there was still that little bit of challenge!

RIP Old pet system.

[Dewclaw]

Sort of OT, but when warp stalkers has warp, i remember stalking a gnome mage who was flagged and questing. He had no idea I was there, and he had no idea what hit him when that warp stalker appeared followed by a few well placed arrows. That was a good time.

[Makoes]

I don't miss the pet leveling, that always annoyed me, and one of the main reason's I still cannot bond with a ghost saber. I tried so hard but grinding it's levels really taxed me.

I did LOVE hunting pets to "learn" abilities and ranks, and then teaching those abilities to Nanaki. I've never been much of a "best pet" type player, I used the pet's I liked the look of, and either people accepted that or didn't, I didn't really care. I've had a red Hyena since lv ...32? the very lowest level that you could tame a red one at, before that I had a yellow barrens hyena from lv 14.
Before the "learning pet skills" was removed, I'd managed to learn them all.

I do miss to some extent, the pet talent tree. My play style is somewhat different...so I never could follow a "cookie cutter" set. But I don't really mind how pet specs work now. I love being able to switch specs on the fly.

I still, more for my own bond with Nanaki, use the "feed pet" spell. Especially after a really tough fight. I also /pet /hug him a lot ^^ He's my buddy. And I am a BM hunter.

Of the other hunters in the raid I go to, one uses a devilsaur or wolf, the other seems to favour a wind serpent or cat. I run with Nanaki (hyena) and sometimes if the fight is heavy damage, I bring out Cetra (Karoma) or Ultima (Loque) depending on which is with me that day.

Now days I see a lot more in the way of pet flexibility. I personally find the current changes to pets to be a good thing. People can bring what pets they like, there is no "best pet" and I really don't think my pets have lost their "uniqueness".
Loyalty has always been what you make of it, since I've always had an affinity for my pets, and strove to take good care of them, my actions now are as they where back then. I never changed that, my pets where always happy and I feel that they still are. If my pet suffers a number of deaths in a row, I feel compelled to "feed" them, hug them, thank them.

[Nanotrev]

Well, here's the "test thread" I tossed in. It was met with even less popularity than this forum.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11204621037

It explains more of my ideas though people seemed to be more interested in telling me how much of an imbecile I was. Back in the day I NEVER had a problem with the feed pet system or the loyalty that was tied into it much less harassed in my groups for taking the pet I wanted with me. Maybe I was incredibly lucky. I guess I'll never know for certain but I always made sure I had food with me 24/7. It was a small hassle for me but I always capped my pet's loyalty before using them seriously for the things I did.

Oh, and I hated raiding. It just wasn't my thing. I still have trouble solo'ing old instances for the amount of time it takes to run something like ICC.

[Kurasu]

By the way, you never did say what pets you'd seen repeated frequently on the server. Which one was being most represented. I'd honestly be sort of curious to see, just to see if it's because it's one of the popular ones (cat or wolf), one of the starting pets, or maybe if something else is going on.

[GormanGhaste]

In BC I was so happy when I got an Everlasting Underspore Frond for my boar (and me)! Kept the kitty topped off with fish.

[Lisaara]

Well, here's the "test thread" I tossed in. It was met with even less popularity than this forum.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11204621037

It explains more of my ideas though people seemed to be more interested in telling me how much of an imbecile I was. Back in the day I NEVER had a problem with the feed pet system or the loyalty that was tied into it much less harassed in my groups for taking the pet I wanted with me. Maybe I was incredibly lucky. I guess I'll never know for certain but I always made sure I had food with me 24/7. It was a small hassle for me but I always capped my pet's loyalty before using them seriously for the things I did.

Oh, and I hated raiding. It just wasn't my thing. I still have trouble solo'ing old instances for the amount of time it takes to run something like ICC.

You probably should've expected that, however the replies in that thread weren't that bad, tbh. I've seen WAY worse. Most of it was constructive.

I know you like some of that stuff but you yourself said you don't know what it was like to raid in these circumstances(believe me, it sucked, to be blunt), let alone tame a rare(which was a 6-24hr spawn timer) only for it to run away immediately after you tame it cause you forgot to bring food with you or you couldn't get to the next town afterwards. It was downright awful and not fun at all.

[Castile]

Yeah Im of two minds...

I have never been nor was i ever ridiculed for bringing the "wrong" pet to a raid or dungeon. Sounds like you guys ran into some douchebags tbh. My Tauren's pet was her tallstrider most of the time and my guild found it the funniest shit when that bird went screaming into the boss rofl!! But I do remember rocking a windserpent for ZA in BC and that it was "the" pet.

I do miss the talent trees and little things like feeding your pet. It took effort to be a hunter ya know? It wasn't like a warlocks minion like it is now. Although I can see how to some now it would seem annoying. I liked to spec certain pets certain ways and try out new talents for soloing things. I once did a special spec to solo a world dragon...it took me like 20 mins but I did it lol!!

I like that you can bring w/e pet you want...within reason tho. It isn't completely up to you in raids as Ive been forced to go get a sporebat on several occastions (and i dislike sporebats!) so there still is the buff pet thing. My pet is usually my Portent Shishi or my turtle Tuttle. I see lots of different pets now tbh so I think thats a good thing.

So i can see how your post has merit and little things brought back would be cool but alot of ppl would be very unhappy so that probably wont happen.

[Nanotrev]

Pets so far, since people were interested.

2 Dragonhawks
1 Crane
2 Cats

It seems there aren't many hunters present at either of the times so I'll try again later.

On the topic of improving hunter pets people have brought up the concept that more unique models could be created. Perhaps one or two per expansion. Kindof how Loque'nahak is special in that it's the only pet with that model let alone the only spirit beast with that model. It makes me wonder what the untainted Draenor bestiary will look like.

[Niabi]

I do miss pet loyalty and feeding ... heck, it was the only reason I ever bothered leveling my fishing and cooking specializations in the first place. I wouldn't want pets to run away though like they used to. I'd rather just have pet loyalty dictate damage output (sort of like what it did before), i.e.: the higher the loyalty the better and quicker their performance, whereas the lowest loyalty would produce a stronger probability of misses and only subpar performance.

On the subject of everything else, I'm perfectly fine with the way things are now. I feel the changes have all been in the best interest of optimizing gameplay for us hunters while maintaining balance among the other classes.