WoW Petopia Community

NOTE: split this discussion off from the "Potential new hunter pets in WoD" thread because it was getting a bit off-topic (my fault, sorry).

Nachtwulf wrote:I love the outland hydras. Despite, or perhaps because of, how completely freakish their heads are.

I really wish the artists had built upon that model, and the Outland chimaera and two-headed vulture models which had similarities in style, for Draenor.

I can't see into the heads of the team that did the designs for BC, but their work gave me the impression that they went out of their way to make Draenor wildlife feel very alien to us. I felt it was meant to be a different kind of world, rather than just "fel energy did it".

Much as I love the new art (and I really do think it's beautiful), I feel like the current team has undone all that. The new models may have a few bits of hard skin here and there, but it's basically fluffy and familiar updated Azeroth wildlife, or things that at least look more familiar to the player and far less "HR Geiger" like the originals. I feel like they didn't make any bold choices and that they actually destroyed the bold choices of the team that had gone before them.

Of course I don't know these people or their reasons. Hell, maybe most of them worked on BC and I'm not aware of it. But that's certainly the impression I am getting so far. I love the models... but for Azeroth.

Wain wrote:

Nachtwulf wrote:I love the outland hydras. Despite, or perhaps because of, how completely freakish their heads are.

I really wish the artists had built upon that model, and the Outland chimaera and two-headed vulture models which had similarities in style, for Draenor.

I can't see into the heads of the team that did the designs for BC, but their work gave me the impression that they went out of their way to make Draenor wildlife feel very alien to us. I felt it was meant to be a different kind of world, rather than just "fel energy did it".

Much as I love the new art (and I really do think it's beautiful), I feel like the current team has undone all that. The new models may have a few bits of hard skin here and there, but it's basically fluffy and familiar updated Azeroth wildlife, or things that at least look more familiar to the player and far less "HR Geiger" like the originals. I feel like they didn't make any bold choices and that they actually destroyed the bold choices of the team that had gone before them.

Of course I don't know these people or their reasons. Hell, maybe most of them worked on BC and I'm not aware of it. But that's certainly the impression I am getting so far. I love the models... but for Azeroth.

I feel like because we're more familiar with "fel energy" Draenor, we forgot that a lot of what was in outland "evolved" or "devolved" from those beasts. For example, Thunder hydras deformed back into the outland hydras we see today. The wolves we see on Draenor evolved into Worgs when they were taken back into Azeroth, which is why they look very similar to what we've seen as it is. Plus there's less demons walking around, which kind of halves the population a bit. and more room for other creatures we haven't seen before.

PorrasouxRex wrote:I feel like because we're more familiar with "fel energy" Draenor, we forgot that a lot of what was in outland "evolved" or "devolved" from those beasts. For example, Thunder hydras deformed back into the outland hydras we see today. The wolves we see on Draenor evolved into Worgs when they were taken back into Azeroth, which is why they look very similar to what we've seen as it is. Plus there's less demons walking around, which kind of halves the population a bit. and more room for other creatures we haven't seen before.

That is their explanation with this expansion. But was it the original intent? Or is this a departure from the original team's intent because the current art team wanted to go with safer, fluffier styles?

Wain wrote:

PorrasouxRex wrote:I feel like because we're more familiar with "fel energy" Draenor, we forgot that a lot of what was in outland "evolved" or "devolved" from those beasts. For example, Thunder hydras deformed back into the outland hydras we see today. The wolves we see on Draenor evolved into Worgs when they were taken back into Azeroth, which is why they look very similar to what we've seen as it is. Plus there's less demons walking around, which kind of halves the population a bit. and more room for other creatures we haven't seen before.

That is their explanation with this expansion. But was it the original intent? Or is this a departure from the original team's intent because the current art team wanted to go with safer, fluffier styles?

Maybe a bit of both? Like this Draenor is not the one that made OL after all. I dunno time travel is always confusing

Wain wrote:

Nachtwulf wrote:I love the outland hydras. Despite, or perhaps because of, how completely freakish their heads are.

I really wish the artists had built upon that model, and the Outland chimaera and two-headed vulture models which had similarities in style, for Draenor.

I can't see into the heads of the team that did the designs for BC, but their work gave me the impression that they went out of their way to make Draenor wildlife feel very alien to us. I felt it was meant to be a different kind of world, rather than just "fel energy did it".

Much as I love the new art (and I really do think it's beautiful), I feel like the current team has undone all that. The new models may have a few bits of hard skin here and there, but it's basically fluffy and familiar updated Azeroth wildlife, or things that at least look more familiar to the player and far less "HR Geiger" like the originals. I feel like they didn't make any bold choices and that they actually destroyed the bold choices of the team that had gone before them.

Of course I don't know these people or their reasons. Hell, maybe most of them worked on BC and I'm not aware of it. But that's certainly the impression I am getting so far. I love the models... but for Azeroth.

Wain, I agree with you, to a point, however I think you're missing the real problem.

What I think the key issue is is that there are two competing design paradigms here, which has left the artwork all over the map.

One one hand you had things that are "uncorrupted by Fel energy". On the other, you had "more savage". So let's look at the beasts.

The eleks, clefthoof, and talbuks are less savage. But I wonder how they could evolve into the milder BC versions in such a hurry, and neither the WoD or BC versions seem to be effected by Fel energy in either case.

The ravagers are just completely different. They're not even the same species, and maybe not even in the same family.

The hydras, at least sofar, are also a totally different species, family, and perhaps even order. The new one looks draconic and vaguely mamalian, where the BC ones are reptilian or something else.

Are the sporelings the corrupted versions of the new podling things?

The boars are the only thing we've seen sofar where they actually got it right, and have "more savage" and "uncorrupted by Fel energy". The whole bloody rest of them are a disaster.

But I don't think it's "safe cuddly" choices by the designers. I think the core problem is a vast screw-up in the design principles, probably some design by committee, and a WHOLE lotta lack of direction.

But if you are looking for Blizz to make decisions that make sense that way and stick to a story, and perhaps make some scientific sense, you'll only dissapoint yourself. Blizz has a long history of doing things that get explained away by "it's a different world" but make my brain hurt if you think about them. Just the geology of their ores and minerals is enough to make my brain hurt. And then there's the fish, where there are very simple things they could fix that would make things make so much sense. (Like assigning what is obviously a trout icon to a fish called a salmon, and what is obviously a salmon to something called a trout). Arrgh!!

I think the research department at Blizz cuts all the names off everything before they give reference art to the artists and designers.. on purpose.

But ya.. it's poor design principles and lack of clear story direction at the core.

I really don't like the outland Hydras. I think they're the ugliest thing to ever exist in the game. Even the slime is more endearing. I'm personally glad they didn't build on an old, outdated model that was just unattractive. Chimaeron is more attractive than that to me.

Junrei wrote:I really don't like the outland Hydras. I think they're the ugliest thing to ever exist in the game. Even the slime is more endearing. I'm personally glad they didn't build on an old, outdated model that was just unattractive. Chimaeron is more attractive than that to me.

Was never a fan of them myself either. Too alien.

Slickrock wrote:

Junrei wrote:I really don't like the outland Hydras. I think they're the ugliest thing to ever exist in the game. Even the slime is more endearing. I'm personally glad they didn't build on an old, outdated model that was just unattractive. Chimaeron is more attractive than that to me.

Was never a fan of them myself either. Too alien.

It looked too alien and to....derpy. Like this....

Junrei wrote:

Slickrock wrote:

Junrei wrote:I really don't like the outland Hydras. I think they're the ugliest thing to ever exist in the game. Even the slime is more endearing. I'm personally glad they didn't build on an old, outdated model that was just unattractive. Chimaeron is more attractive than that to me.

Was never a fan of them myself either. Too alien.

It looked too alien and to....derpy. Like this....

Oh my gawd. Rat dog!

I agree that the boars are my favourite adaptation so far. They're really beautifully done and so true to the original. And of course wolves are wolves. They were never hugely different and the new model so far seems quite gorgeously done. I'm even enjoying it as wolf form on my shammy.

You could be right (Slick) about a mix up of design principles that are clashing. I so wish they'd at least stuck to being inspired by the originals of some of these creatures, rather than just making something entirely unrelated and using "fel energy did it" as a defense for wanting to do their own thing. Actually, maybe I'm maligning them on the latter point. I'm not sure if they've ever explicitly claimed some of these differences are the result of fel energy. Maybe Outland-style hydras and chimaeras were just rare before the invasion and thrived after their more traditional-looking cousins died off In fact the "chimaeraling" minipet you can loot from an egg is an Outland style one at the moment, so maybe they do occur as a separate species.

Anyway, this whole discussion probably warrants a different thread and I'm bogging down the new pets thread, so I won't post any more here.

Wain wrote:Anyway, this whole discussion probably warrants a different thread and I'm bogging down the new pets thread, so I won't post any more here.

Well, I suspect we are putting more thought into it than they are in that regard, so no sense in beating ourselves senseless over it..

Sorry I shouldn't sound so bitchy. I really am loving what I've seen so far. It's *truly* gorgeous work. My comments were more of an academic "I would have preferred it if they'd taken this angle..." thing.

Wain wrote:Sorry I shouldn't sound so bitchy. I really am loving what I've seen so far. It's *truly* gorgeous work. My comments were more of an academic "I would have preferred it if they'd taken this angle..." thing.

Well, it would be nice if it made sense, but that really isn't realistic..

But like I said, don't put more thought into it than they do, it will only hurt..