mount count by account, amass by class

[Xota]

mmo-c reports that class mounts are account wide, but retain class restrictions for using. I'm wondering if this makes getting mount achievements 4-7 mounts easier. I got my last mount achievement on my warlock (2 class mounts ahead of all my other characters), and was planning to waste a bunch of pvp saddles on a paladin (up to 3 class mounts). If anyone on beta has multiple characters that include warlock, paladin, or death knights, could they check the Mountacular count?

[Myrrmi]

Also if you could check how it applies to paladin mounts of various races - do they all count separately (eg. I have a human and a draenei pallies, so I have 2x +2 mounts, or just +2 mounts)?

Yup, I'm considering getting all pally race-mount combo if it works

[Lisaara]

Sweet if it does.

[ejpaints]

I can look again tonight to see how the class change affected it. But, my character on live has 206 mounts. On beta it was over 240, and some blizz store mounts were missing. The count difference was primarily Bc of faction mounts. I'll see if my paladin mounts all show up too. I don't have a horde Pali, but the elek and horse should be sufficient to answer the question.

[Xella]

I have 338 mounts listed on beta on both my human hunter and my blood elf paladin prior to creating a level 90 draenei or tauren paladin. When on the human hunter I see the Charger (alliance version), not the Thalassian Charger. I DO have a dwarf paladin on beta already so that's probably why.

Creating a tauren paladin bumps my mount count up to 341. I can see the Thalassian Charger in my mount list while on the tauren, but cannot ride it. Logging on to my blood elf paladin, her mount count is 340 and I can see (but not ride) both the Sunwalker Kodo and the Great Sunwalker Kodo. Creating a new horde character (non-paladin), the mount count is 339 and she can see both versions of the Kodo and the Thalassian ones. Logging onto my human hunter, my mount count is still listed at 338 and I can only see one pair of paladin mounts.

Creating a draenei paladin (I could have sworn I'd done that already but maybe I just haven't logged into her since this change went through) brings her mount count up to 340. She can see both Exarch's mounts AND the Charger and Warhorse—additionally, the charger and warhorse are NOT red for her and she CAN mount them. Popping back to the tauren paladin, she's still at 341 and cannot mount the Thalassian mounts (Requires Paladin, Blood Elf). The Blood Elf is still at 340 and cannot mount the Kodos (Requires Paladin, Tauren). Finally, back on the human hunter, her mount count is now up to 340 but she cannot mount on the elekks (Requires Paladin, Draenei) or the Warhorse/Charger (Requires Paladin but does not have a race specification which is probably why the draenei can mount it. I doubt this will stay as-is though I can dream—I really miss my draenei paladin's warhorse; the elekk is pretty but way way way way way too big for me to ride).

Logging on my dwarf paladin at this point, her mount count is at 339. She can see both elekks but cannot ride them.

So the TLDR here is that the class-specific mounts count per-race but only on the faction that can use them. If you have a blood elf paladin and a draenei paladin you won't get credit for four mounts because you only have two on each faction. Additionally, there's SOME mount or two that isn't properly counting or going account-wide or SOMETHING because there's no reason for my mount count to bump between 339 and 341 :|

On a similar note, creating a dwarf warlock after all that hooplah to add the felsteed and the dreadsteed to my account's pool bumps the lock's count to 342. The Blood Elf paladin's mount count is also now at 342; the warlock mounts don't appear to be faction-bound in the same way that the paladin mounts are.

[Divixon]

i got beta like yesterday, i copied my main with 207 mounts for alliance - since i logd on beta it might have counted all my horde and alliance mounts, its upto 245 but it also gave me the 250 mount achive *didnt make any pre-90s* on that server.

tbh i hope it does that in wod because of the 250 felhawk XD

[Xota]

Interesting, but probably far from finalized. I may make a second alliance pally if I finish brawl club, but I'll probably hold off on leveling two horde to 40 just yet.

[Wain]

Thanks for this thread

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it all resolves when it goes live. It'd be cool if they do all count. Also makes me wonder if they'll eventually try to balance things by introducing mounts for all classes. There'd be a lot of fun ideas in that.

From a technical perspective I'm excited that we can hopefully just query one character to determine someone's account-wide collection on WCM. That'll save a lot of headaches for us

[Krysteena]

Yes! Hunter specific mounts or something! Or shammy mounts! Mage mounts!

However, can a class other than the paladin see the mounts? So if I logged on my hunter and had a paladin, could she see the pally mounts but not ride them? It's probably been said sow here but I must've missed it.

If not. Well. Looks like I'll be making a couple of paladins then >.< mount count is everything!

[Xella]

Yeah you can see them on non-paladins if the character you're logged onto is of the right faction. You can't ride them unless you're a proper paladin, though.

I've currently got paladins at 90 for 3/4 mount types (human/dwarf, draenei, tauren, blood elf) on live so I'm all set on the paladin front unless I mainswap horde (not likely given my friends all play alliance but y'know) but tauren paladins are pretty tasty (on the old models, at least) so I dunno....

[Krysteena]

Ahh good good. Best I level 2 paladins up to 40 then

[Petronius]

I think/hope this is all part of the process the Mount Journal is going through before they finalize its filtering system and not how it will end up working on live.

A lot of people seem to welcome it because it will score them a cheap felfire hawk, which is a shame, because it would be a shallow gain at the cost of good gameplay. Even if it's a desired change, I doubt the difficulty of top tier mount collecting achievements will change. Counting both factions, and now class specific mounts together simply shifts collection sizes up 50-100 heads. Blizzard will have to implement new steps at 300/350 earlier, and hardcore collectors will simply get the 250 in a two-for-one, since many of them already have the other faction's racial mounts and all the mirrored rep rewards - and even if they don't, they're highly accessible. Players who would have had a hard time getting to 250 will still have a hard time reaching 350 and whatever cool new reward it will hold, so nothing fundamental would change.

But the question is, is this necessary? I'm a somewhat dedicated collector (228 mounts, with nothing from shop or TCG - though I know people who already have 250+), and my main can use 98% of the mounts in his tab. The flying machines and the carpets are the only exceptions. Because their restriction is profession, not character-based, there really was no good way to avoid that (although there are solid arguments out there to remove their annoying restriction altogether). Unlike earning an arena mount one season or being a certain class, in theory you can always switch your professions back and forth, so the mounts at least have the potential of being used.

If this change goes live, more than a third of my mounts will be unusable on any specific char, my collection marred by dozens of red icons. That's not something that would make me proud, but rather something I'd want to opt out of right away because I find it annoying. How is a mount I can never use part of my collection? It doesn't even make sense! Without a filtering system that allows you to hide all the unusable mounts (or does that automatically), my collection will be as messy as a crate of old junk in the attic.

And the gameplay change is even worse. If cross faction and class mounts do count for the account total, that means you are sort of "expected" as a collector to do what it takes to obtain them, since, well... they are easy to get... and they increase your mount count! This feels very clunky to me, especially in the case of class mounts. Blizzard has never implemented gameplay that so openly suggested your class choices. Yes, you got a small bonus to your mount count in some situations, and - since MoP - having some competent alts helped you with farming rare drops, but there was nothing in the game before that made me think anything like "Gee, I guess I should make two paladins, a death knight and a warlock to help my main by contributing to an achievement with things he can not use!". There were no achievements that rewarded you for playing both factions either, other than the obvious (and somewhat controversial) Double Agent. On top of it, incentivizing multiple runs through content that is lvl 80 and below at the start of a new expansion is counter-intuitive for the game and unexciting for the player. The newest mount achievement should get us excited for the mounts on Draenor, not having us scramble to level a tauren paladin in Mulgore and chain run vanilla dungeons on our lowbie Alliance alt with an Ironforge tabard.

So... let's all just not encourage it, and maybe it won't make it live?

[Xota]

I see your point Petronius, and I agree with the faction mounts, where the horde and alliance mounts are basically analogs to each other. But for class mounts, there's already a problem, that class mounts do count for mount total on that particular character, but the mount count is an account wide achievement. And class mounts aren't the only character specific mounts, there's three vicious saddle mounts and a CM mount (assuming WoD follows the same model as MoP). So there's pressure to put all those on a paladin character, since they have 3 class mounts (including one from Argent Tournament).

And I disagree that including class mounts would make people level new alts instead of starting Draenor and getting the mounts there. Leveling a toon to 40 is something to do in one's spare time. So it's a pre-expansion activity or a several months later activity, once they've already done Draenor and gotten mounts there. The mounts from the stable and Draenor rep and rares are enough incentive that people won't be running around Dun Morogh come mid-november.

I guess one solution would be that class mounts would never count towards the mount total, even when you're on a character of that class. That's not totally unreasonable, but I would argue at least the argent tournament paladin mount should count, and it should count no matter what character you're on. And while we're at it, "Running Wild" should be on the list, but not count towards the total. I want it to be one of my worgen's "favorite mounts" for random selection.

[Petronius]

I think the difference between the total number of mounts obtainable in game alone and the top tier of collecting achievements leaves enough leeway for people not to value the 2-3 extra class mounts too highly. Are there people who stack their mounts on a paladin because he can get the highest count number? Probably, just how there are flavor of the month rerollers every raid tier and pvp sezon. Most people would rather keep the cool rewards for their main, though. Once that gets cemented with vicious and CM mounts (not sure about Cm anymore, since they made the phoenixes account wide eventually, they might go the same direction with the yeti from the start), the incentive to send stuff to a paladin is gone.

I agree there's a problem when everything BUT the class mounts is account wide, so every time you get Achievement Total - 2, you log on a low level paladin/dk/lock and earn the achievement there - that sort of gameplay kinda sucks, I agree. But the solution is to have more character specific mounts, not to make everything account wide. Things like the honor mounts, or the new Trained mounts we get from the Stables are good candidates. They are easy enough to obtain for an alt if you really like them, but unless you are a min-maxer you probably wouldn't bother getting them on a pally just for the achievement. And even if you were, at some point going for 2 extra mounts you don't have each expansion becomes a better time investment than doing everything twice.

Two extra mounts for a couple of classes is an insignificant advantage, but 9 mounts for having them all is getting silly. These are all mounts your other characters can't use, and they require you to have specific classes, including duplicate paladins! Do you think keeping chars around just for the sake of their class mounts is better than stacking vicious saddles on paladins? It sort of feels like it devalues the characters, especially if they are left at level 40 - like the character is worth less than the mounts it brings to the collection. Should that be a reason to make an alt? And what about people wasting their free boost on a class/race they don't like because it comes with free mounts, or access to the other faction?

Other faction mounts is problematic because it affects collection size by a lot, but overall they're more straight-forward, you can get them on a single char with the added benefit of experiencing different content. I don't like it, because it nukes one step of the mount collection achievements and it doesn't really bring anything with it to justify it, the mounts are old and getting them is unexciting. Class mounts is worse because it requires you to have a certain combination of classes/races for a relatively significant count boost. Check out the mount guide for WoD. What single activity can you do in WoD to get 8 mounts (the 9th is the charger, it still takes a couple of days to grind the tokens for it, more if you need to open up valiant, though now the achievement which unlocks it is properly account wide and the paladin doesn't have to go through the entire event to unlock it, from what I've heard) faster than by leveling those alts? What can you do that's more efficient than getting the 30+ racial mounts from the other faction? A lot of people will look at these things, judge that they are needed for the hawk, and do them early. (Then they will probably join the collectors in crying for a new achievement).

But all that aside, the fundamental problem I have with this, if it is even going to reach live, is having a lot of mounts I can't use in my collection. I just can't wrap my head around why that would be cool. If they let us use them then fine, whatever, bring them all in. I'll make four paladins even (Though there are plenty of drawbacks here that are not warrant discussing, and I sincerely doubt Blizzard would it).

[peanutbuttercup]

And the gameplay change is even worse. If cross faction and class mounts do count for the account total, that means you are sort of "expected" as a collector to do what it takes to obtain them, since, well... they are easy to get... and they increase your mount count! This feels very clunky to me, especially in the case of class mounts. Blizzard has never implemented gameplay that so openly suggested your class choices. Yes, you got a small bonus to your mount count in some situations, and - since MoP - having some competent alts helped you with farming rare drops, but there was nothing in the game before that made me think anything like "Gee, I guess I should make two paladins, a death knight and a warlock to help my main by contributing to an achievement with things he can not use!". There were no achievements that rewarded you for playing both factions either, other than the obvious (and somewhat controversial) Double Agent. On top of it, incentivizing multiple runs through content that is lvl 80 and below at the start of a new expansion is counter-intuitive for the game and unexciting for the player. The newest mount achievement should get us excited for the mounts on Draenor, not having us scramble to level a tauren paladin in Mulgore and chain run vanilla dungeons on our lowbie Alliance alt with an Ironforge tabard.

I've already said the same about myself (in a far less eloquent way) in earlier threads. I don't like feeling like I must roll a paladin or must play multiple alts to remain "competitive" in mount count, and yet the game does seem to be leaning more and more towards players with many alts instead of players with a dedicated main. I've been playing the same toon since the first day I started, and so I want only my main to get achievements and mounts. I'm just thankful that nearly all of my mounts have dropped for my main instead of an alt, or else they wouldn't "count" in my mind.

With that said, I fear it's already too late for me. I'm already working on getting the 50 missing "mirror" mounts on horde. I never planned on doing that but I fear that if all mounts are going to count in the future, I'll need those 50 to hit the next milestone achievements. And I'm already thinking of boosting a paladin to 90 just to add more mounts to my total, essentially wasting a boost on a toon that I don't ever intend to play.

[Krysteena]

I think I might be one of the few people who's fine with this change. So what if my hunter can see my paladins mounts? So what if these changes add 20 or so mounts to my character? I don't need to roll 2 paladins and a warlock so I can get the extra 6 mounts. I might do that in my spare time, but not until I've played so much of a Draenor I see everyone as Draenei and Orcs. I reckon give most people 6 months, and that's when they'll start making toons for mounts.

[Lisaara]

I hope you guys know that getting to level 40 to get the 'two mounts' per class thing can take....less than a few hours to do with full heirlooms. I've already leveled a paladin, warlock, and DK to get those. Trust me. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Class mounts have also always counted. This isn't new. Only thing now is you'll see them. No big deal.

[Xota]

I think the difference between the total number of mounts obtainable in game alone and the top tier of collecting achievements leaves enough leeway for people not to value the 2-3 extra class mounts too highly. Are there people who stack their mounts on a paladin because he can get the highest count number? Probably, just how there are flavor of the month rerollers every raid tier and pvp sezon. Most people would rather keep the cool rewards for their main, though. Once that gets cemented with vicious and CM mounts (not sure about Cm anymore, since they made the phoenixes account wide eventually, they might go the same direction with the yeti from the start), the incentive to send stuff to a paladin is gone.

I can't speak for most people, but I can speak for myself. I would rather have the cool rewards on my favorite characters. That's why paladins having a +3 head start is bad. Saddles can be sent to paladins and CM can be done on paladins. So I'm not sure what your argument is. The incentive to send stuff to a paladin is gone because you can send stuff to a paladin?

I agree there's a problem when everything BUT the class mounts is account wide, so every time you get Achievement Total - 2, you log on a low level paladin/dk/lock and earn the achievement there - that sort of gameplay kinda sucks, I agree. But the solution is to have more character specific mounts, not to make everything account wide. Things like the honor mounts, or the new Trained mounts we get from the Stables are good candidates. They are easy enough to obtain for an alt if you really like them, but unless you are a min-maxer you probably wouldn't bother getting them on a pally just for the achievement. And even if you were, at some point going for 2 extra mounts you don't have each expansion becomes a better time investment than doing everything twice.

I don't follow. The reason why most mounts were made account wide was to prevent having to farm up mounts if you favored a new character. Adding many more character-specific mounts would do the opposite of what you claim. A player would have to level into their mount paladin to farm all the character specific mounts. People who go for mount achievements are people who are trying to maximize their mounts. I don't see how "count class mounts as an account-wide total or not at all" means you'd have to do everything twice.

Two extra mounts for a couple of classes is an insignificant advantage, but 9 mounts for having them all is getting silly. These are all mounts your other characters can't use, and they require you to have specific classes, including duplicate paladins! Do you think keeping chars around just for the sake of their class mounts is better than stacking vicious saddles on paladins? It sort of feels like it devalues the characters, especially if they are left at level 40 - like the character is worth less than the mounts it brings to the collection. Should that be a reason to make an alt? And what about people wasting their free boost on a class/race they don't like because it comes with free mounts, or access to the other faction?

The character cap is 50, if someone has 50 characters, then odds are pretty high they have a dk, paladin, and warlock. And just because you think having a low level character "devalues" that character means everyone else shares that opinion. Characters aren't real people. A level 40 Tauren paladin isn't going to be inconvenienced any more than a level 1 bank alt. They aren't persons, they can't care. There are many reasons to make an alt, including mount farming. You are going to have to explain a whole lot better why mount farming can't be a valid reason to make an alt. And you're being presumptuous on other people's choices on how they use their character boost. If someone thinks its a waste, they shouldn't do it. And if they do use the boost for that, then they have made the decision it's not a waste.

Other faction mounts is problematic because it affects collection size by a lot, but overall they're more straight-forward, you can get them on a single char with the added benefit of experiencing different content. I don't like it, because it nukes one step of the mount collection achievements and it doesn't really bring anything with it to justify it, the mounts are old and getting them is unexciting. Class mounts is worse because it requires you to have a certain combination of classes/races for a relatively significant count boost. Check out the mount guide for WoD. What single activity can you do in WoD to get 8 mounts (the 9th is the charger, it still takes a couple of days to grind the tokens for it, more if you need to open up valiant, though now the achievement which unlocks it is properly account wide and the paladin doesn't have to go through the entire event to unlock it, from what I've heard) faster than by leveling those alts? What can you do that's more efficient than getting the 30+ racial mounts from the other faction? A lot of people will look at these things, judge that they are needed for the hawk, and do them early. (Then they will probably join the collectors in crying for a new achievement).

Cross-faction mounts shouldn't be counted in the mount total, in my opinion, if anything I have said looks like I supported that, then I'm clarifying that now. They shouldn't. But I don't follow that up to 7 class mounts counting in a total is worse than 50-100 more mounts. Leveling a dk to 60 from 55 does not take that long. Leveling a paladin or warlock to 40 would take a longer, but it goes pretty quickly. Getting a paladin to 80 to get the charger would take the longest, but yes, I do think it would be shorter than doing the Argent Tournament from scratch. Also, and I'm just speaking for myself, but I take a less than impressed view when an argument includes characterizing those who disagree as "crying".

But all that aside, the fundamental problem I have with this, if it is even going to reach live, is having a lot of mounts I can't use in my collection. I just can't wrap my head around why that would be cool. If they let us use them then fine, whatever, bring them all in. I'll make four paladins even (Though there are plenty of drawbacks here that are not warrant discussing, and I sincerely doubt Blizzard would it).

I'm not sure I understand. Your fundamental problem is that there's mounts in your account-wide "collected" list that you can't ride? There's already profession mounts like that. Heck, in BC, I dropped skinning and learned engineering for the two mounts, then immediately leveled skinning again. Your list not looking how you'd like it organized isn't a compelling reason why other people, who may have different play-styles and preferences can't have those preferences or play-styles? It doesn't have to be cool to you to be worthwhile to others.

While I'd prefer having class mounts count towards the achievement on any character, not having them count at all is much preferential to having dozens of other character specific mounts. Maybe the two basic class mounts shouldn't count for any character, but the tournament pally mount should count for everyone (since its earned by more than just dinging a certain level), and that CM and Vicious Saddle mounts should count account-wide (but only rideable by the earning character(s)). Again, faction-restricted mounts probably shouldn't ever count towards the total. Oh, and if non-counting mounts are implemented, Running Wild should be included. Worgen should be able to have it as a random favorite mount, but obviously it shouldn't be on the mount count.

[Petronius]

I can't speak for most people, but I can speak for myself. I would rather have the cool rewards on my favorite characters. That's why paladins having a +3 head start is bad. Saddles can be sent to paladins and CM can be done on paladins. So I'm not sure what your argument is. The incentive to send stuff to a paladin is gone because you can send stuff to a paladin?

I have 228 mounts, out of an achievement that requires 200. Both the arenas and the CM took more time and effort than most of the other mounts I own, both from myself and the friends I ran them with. My argument is that there are much more accessible mounts than these, and once you make the decision to have them on your main, it's simply not worth it going through it again for the paladin. Anything else that you go for will be less of a hassle. If people really want to have 3 more mounts than everyone else, or if they were going to run CMs/arenas on their paladins anyway, more power to them. As a non-paladin collector, I'm telling you that those 3 extra mounts are a false problem (2 in my case, I didn't even bother to get the argent charger).

I don't follow. The reason why most mounts were made account wide was to prevent having to farm up mounts if you favored a new character. Adding many more character-specific mounts would do the opposite of what you claim. A player would have to level into their mount paladin to farm all the character specific mounts. People who go for mount achievements are people who are trying to maximize their mounts. I don't see how "count class mounts as an account-wide total or not at all" means you'd have to do everything twice.

Blizzard made that change for mounts that are hard to obtain. Maybe you were lucky with a rare drop on an obscure alt, and it sucked not having it for the main, or you completed some awesome achievement that you couldn't show off if you switched chars. It was an awesome, much needed change, btw.

But there are also mounts that you get easily, and you often have to destroy or sell them on every alt since you somehow stumble onto them - like the sea horse from Vashj'ir, or the bronze drake, or the cloud serpents after your third alt. The Stables are a similar case. You get the mounts on your main, and then what? If you want the speed boost on an alt, you will either ignore the quests or do them and throw the mounts away. Accessible mounts like these could form a buffer around your collector that counters the temptation of getting your achievement on a paladin alt. Instead of farming ALL of these again, you could instead try to get 3 mounts you don't own on any char... and if you want one or two of them for an alt, hey, they are easy to get!

The character cap is 50, if someone has 50 characters, then odds are pretty high they have a dk, paladin, and warlock. And just because you think having a low level character "devalues" that character means everyone else shares that opinion. Characters aren't real people. A level 40 Tauren paladin isn't going to be inconvenienced any more than a level 1 bank alt. They aren't persons, they can't care. There are many reasons to make an alt, including mount farming. You are going to have to explain a whole lot better why mount farming can't be a valid reason to make an alt. And you're being presumptuous on other people's choices on how they use their character boost. If someone thinks its a waste, they shouldn't do it. And if they do use the boost for that, then they have made the decision it's not a waste.

You said the paladin's extra mounts would cause people to (grudgingly) send arena mounts and do CMs on their paladins. I simply explained that this PTR change can also lead people to choices they don't really want to make if they're trying to maximize their mount count. How is your argument valid and mine is not? Maybe people who stack mounts on paladins also made their decision and you have no reason to see a problem with it

As far as character choice goes, I grant you, this may not be the only instance it is driven by collections; the Toy Box also has items that are unique to Rogues.

Cross-faction mounts shouldn't be counted in the mount total, in my opinion, if anything I have said looks like I supported that, then I'm clarifying that now. They shouldn't. But I don't follow that up to 7 class mounts counting in a total is worse than 50-100 more mounts. Leveling a dk to 60 from 55 does not take that long. Leveling a paladin or warlock to 40 would take a longer, but it goes pretty quickly. Getting a paladin to 80 to get the charger would take the longest, but yes, I do think it would be shorter than doing the Argent Tournament from scratch. Also, and I'm just speaking for myself, but I take a less than impressed view when an argument includes characterizing those who disagree as "crying".

50-100 mounts push the collection achievements up a stage or two, meaning 300/350 could be expected. 9 mounts (from what I understand, racial paladin mounts count separately) are significant enough to make 250 easier without pushing Blizzard into adding another achievement.

The 50-100 mounts can also be obtained with a single character of your choice, while going for the 9 class mounts removes choice from the player - even race choice in the case of paladins, you just have to have both. It's much clunkier gameplay.

I'm not sure I understand. Your fundamental problem is that there's mounts in your account-wide "collected" list that you can't ride? There's already profession mounts like that. Heck, in BC, I dropped skinning and learned engineering for the two mounts, then immediately leveled skinning again. Your list not looking how you'd like it organized isn't a compelling reason why other people, who may have different play-styles and preferences can't have those preferences or play-styles? It doesn't have to be cool to you to be worthwhile to others.

Come on, I talked about this in my first post!

Profession mounts are an exception coming from the fact that, when they introduced the original mount tab at the end of BC, they couldn't just remove your mounts entirely if you weren't an engineer. They stayed in your tab unusable, like the item before them. The profession mounts were also much more significant towards the total count, particularly in WotLK, and they couldn't force people to keep their professions if they wanted the achievement.

There's also the fact that you can change professions. It's not likely, but in theory, you can unlearn your prof, become a tailor/engineer and ride your mounts again on your main. There are other non-class restrictions on mounts, like you can only ride your abyssal in Vashj'ir, and qiraji in Ahn'Qiraj. Those are fine. A mage will never become a paladin though, nor ever go in magical paladin land, so why would he have the paladin mounts?

Why is it cool to have unusable mounts in your tab? You can have all classes, and a collector on the other faction for all it matters, and have everything show where it belongs.

While I'd prefer having class mounts count towards the achievement on any character, not having them count at all is much preferential to having dozens of other character specific mounts. Maybe the two basic class mounts shouldn't count for any character, but the tournament pally mount should count for everyone (since its earned by more than just dinging a certain level), and that CM and Vicious Saddle mounts should count account-wide (but only rideable by the earning character(s)). Again, faction-restricted mounts probably shouldn't ever count towards the total. Oh, and if non-counting mounts are implemented, Running Wild should be included. Worgen should be able to have it as a random favorite mount, but obviously it shouldn't be on the mount count.

The problem with class mounts not counting is that historically, they always did. And they are mounts after all, so it's hard to justify it since it's such a minor boon. The Argent charger should only count if you could learn it on any class. Driving people into playing a class because they enjoy doing something that is not directly related to playing that class should never be a thing, period.

And running wild isn't a mount, it's a 1.5 sec cast falling on all fours, and your character running. I don't think the mount journal supports dynamically showing your character in its tab. And if it did, would your other characters see it? What if you have more than one worgen? If you want to weave that into your random mount button, you should probably look for a macro.

[Xota]

I have 228 mounts, out of an achievement that requires 200. Both the arenas and the CM took more time and effort than most of the other mounts I own, both from myself and the friends I ran them with. My argument is that there are much more accessible mounts than these, and once you make the decision to have them on your main, it's simply not worth it going through it again for the paladin. Anything else that you go for will be less of a hassle. If people really want to have 3 more mounts than everyone else, or if they were going to run CMs/arenas on their paladins anyway, more power to them. As a non-paladin collector, I'm telling you that those 3 extra mounts are a false problem (2 in my case, I didn't even bother to get the argent charger).

Then your argument is flawed. Just because it is not worth it for you doesn't mean that others won't decide to send their future saddles to their paladin. Don't speak for everyone. There are many different levels of hassle for different mounts. Some cost 5g, some cost over 100,000g. Just because it's a false problem for you doesn't mean other people won't take a different approach. Please stop being so presumptuous. I don't know why you think you speak for everyone.

I don't follow. The reason why most mounts were made account wide was to prevent having to farm up mounts if you favored a new character. Adding many more character-specific mounts would do the opposite of what you claim. A player would have to level into their mount paladin to farm all the character specific mounts. People who go for mount achievements are people who are trying to maximize their mounts. I don't see how "count class mounts as an account-wide total or not at all" means you'd have to do everything twice.

Blizzard made that change for mounts that are hard to obtain. Maybe you were lucky with a rare drop on an obscure alt, and it sucked not having it for the main, or you completed some awesome achievement that you couldn't show off if you switched chars. It was an awesome, much needed change, btw.

But there are also mounts that you get easily, and you often have to destroy or sell them on every alt since you somehow stumble onto them - like the sea horse from Vashj'ir, or the bronze drake, or the cloud serpents after your third alt. The Stables are a similar case. You get the mounts on your main, and then what? If you want the speed boost on an alt, you will either ignore the quests or do them and throw the mounts away. Accessible mounts like these could form a buffer around your collector that counters the temptation of getting your achievement on a paladin alt. Instead of farming ALL of these again, you could instead try to get 3 mounts you don't own on any char... and if you want one or two of them for an alt, hey, they are easy to get!

You haven't explained how "count class mounts as an account-wide total or not at all" means you'd have to do everything twice. All you've done is said that the Stable would be mandatory on the character that's ended up becoming my mount collector (be it a paladin or an old main) and any other character I wanted those mounts on.

The character cap is 50, if someone has 50 characters, then odds are pretty high they have a dk, paladin, and warlock. And just because you think having a low level character "devalues" that character means everyone else shares that opinion. Characters aren't real people. A level 40 Tauren paladin isn't going to be inconvenienced any more than a level 1 bank alt. They aren't persons, they can't care. There are many reasons to make an alt, including mount farming. You are going to have to explain a whole lot better why mount farming can't be a valid reason to make an alt. And you're being presumptuous on other people's choices on how they use their character boost. If someone thinks its a waste, they shouldn't do it. And if they do use the boost for that, then they have made the decision it's not a waste.

You said the paladin's extra mounts would cause people to (grudgingly) send arena mounts and do CMs on their paladins. I simply explained that this PTR change can also lead people to choices they don't really want to make if they're trying to maximize their mount count. How is your argument valid and mine is not? Maybe people who stack mounts on paladins also made their decision and you have no reason to see a problem with it

You're taking my rebuttal out of context. You said playing a character to gain mounts "feels like it devalues the characters, especially if they are left at level 40 - like the character is worth less than the mounts it brings to the collection". That's invalid because you're presuming that you decide what are good reasons for other people to make characters. The time spent getting those alts is relatively negligible, and it doesn't cost you getting anything on your favorite characters. Diverting your rewards to a designated mount collection character does.

As far as character choice goes, I grant you, this may not be the only instance it is driven by collections; the Toy Box also has items that are unique to Rogues.

Cross-faction mounts shouldn't be counted in the mount total, in my opinion, if anything I have said looks like I supported that, then I'm clarifying that now. They shouldn't. But I don't follow that up to 7 class mounts counting in a total is worse than 50-100 more mounts. Leveling a dk to 60 from 55 does not take that long. Leveling a paladin or warlock to 40 would take a longer, but it goes pretty quickly. Getting a paladin to 80 to get the charger would take the longest, but yes, I do think it would be shorter than doing the Argent Tournament from scratch. Also, and I'm just speaking for myself, but I take a less than impressed view when an argument includes characterizing those who disagree as "crying".

50-100 mounts push the collection achievements up a stage or two, meaning 300/350 could be expected. 9 mounts (from what I understand, racial paladin mounts count separately) are significant enough to make 250 easier without pushing Blizzard into adding another achievement.

The 50-100 mounts can also be obtained with a single character of your choice, while going for the 9 class mounts removes choice from the player - even race choice in the case of paladins, you just have to have both. It's much clunkier gameplay.

In my opinion, pushing collection achievements up a stage is a lot more problematic than giving someone access to 4-7 (not 9) new class mounts (in order to reach mount parity across the classes). But I can understand why you'd think pushing collection achievements wouldn't be a big deal, so I'm not going to contend that point. Thank you for explaining.

I'm not sure I understand. Your fundamental problem is that there's mounts in your account-wide "collected" list that you can't ride? There's already profession mounts like that. Heck, in BC, I dropped skinning and learned engineering for the two mounts, then immediately leveled skinning again. Your list not looking how you'd like it organized isn't a compelling reason why other people, who may have different play-styles and preferences can't have those preferences or play-styles? It doesn't have to be cool to you to be worthwhile to others.

Come on, I talked about this in my first post!

Profession mounts are an exception coming from the fact that, when they introduced the original mount tab at the end of BC, they couldn't just remove your mounts entirely if you weren't an engineer. They stayed in your tab unusable, like the item before them. The profession mounts were also much more significant towards the total count, particularly in WotLK, and they couldn't force people to keep their professions if they wanted the achievement.

There's also the fact that you can change professions. It's not likely, but in theory, you can unlearn your prof, become a tailor/engineer and ride your mounts again on your main. There are other non-class restrictions on mounts, like you can only ride your abyssal in Vashj'ir, and qiraji in Ahn'Qiraj. Those are fine. A mage will never become a paladin though, nor ever go in magical paladin land, so why would he have the paladin mounts?

Why is it cool to have unusable mounts in your tab? You can have all classes, and a collector on the other faction for all it matters, and have everything show where it belongs.

I think it's cool to push mount achievements. I think it's cool you have 228, without card or store mounts (I only have 1 store mount, and I'm a bit behind you). And your mage wouldn't have the paladin mounts, your account would. You didn't mention in your first post why your preference of not having mounts in your "collected" list you couldn't ride meant that other people could have a different preference (so don't give me that "Come on" line to dodge the question). Heck, if that's what's stuck in your craw, I expect it wouldn't be terribly hard to write an addon to filter your mount list to only include ones you can ride.

While I'd prefer having class mounts count towards the achievement on any character, not having them count at all is much preferential to having dozens of other character specific mounts. Maybe the two basic class mounts shouldn't count for any character, but the tournament pally mount should count for everyone (since its earned by more than just dinging a certain level), and that CM and Vicious Saddle mounts should count account-wide (but only rideable by the earning character(s)). Again, faction-restricted mounts probably shouldn't ever count towards the total. Oh, and if non-counting mounts are implemented, Running Wild should be included. Worgen should be able to have it as a random favorite mount, but obviously it shouldn't be on the mount count.

The problem with class mounts not counting is that historically, they always did. And they are mounts after all, so it's hard to justify it since it's such a minor boon.

The historical counting of class mounts is why I think it would be better to count them account-wide. The 4-7 nudge towards the achievements isn't ideal in my view, which is why I'd think not counting them at all could also work.

The Argent charger should only count if you could learn it on any class. Driving people into playing a class because they enjoy doing something that is not directly related to playing that class should never be a thing, period.

Why?

And running wild isn't a mount, it's a 1.5 sec cast falling on all fours, and your character running. I don't think the mount journal supports dynamically showing your character in its tab. And if it did, would your other characters see it? What if you have more than one worgen? If you want to weave that into your random mount button, you should probably look for a macro.

You're being contrary, and I don't appreciate it. Running wild is effectively a mount. "What model shows up in the journal?" is not a reason it shouldn't be included. Other characters could see a generic worgen, or nothing, it doesn't really matter. It's just a red herring.
Currently, there's not a macro that can cast "running wild" in the same way that you can summon a mount. I have an addon that's more or less a command line version of "summon favorite mount". In order to get a random mount out of a subset, you have to call a function (/run instead of just using a /use). Summoning mounts using that function isn't protected, so you can do it in a macro or addon. It's a loophole built in for mounts, because you can't cast most spells through a function call; CastSpell() is protected, CallCompanion() is not. The workaround leaves some really wonky and occasionally nuisance behavior.