Rework BM and exotic beast status

[erictks1]

I do feel BM need a rework . BM should be taking their beast as an asset, train them, work on them , teach them new skills eventually their beast become an important asset , much like a well trained army K9. I think the idea of exotic and non exotic pet to differentiate a BM and a normal hunter dosent serve the purpose . A BM should be able to tame any wild beast , put them under training , assign new skill set to them , lvling them from normal to rare eventually to an epic or legendary beast . Much like what we did for our companion . Each beast should be an asset to BM and is not easily replace . Replacement will require some cost . Like time to retrain , lvling it back up to epic ... Or maybe hunting in wild to teach your pet some better battle technique ... Even able to imbues some appearance aura to a pet which might incure some cost and effort .

[Castile]

I don't see this happening mainly because we used to do all this stuff as any spec hunter - train, feed, keep "happy" , train specific pets to "learn" specific abilites to teach your pet etc and they ditched it to make the game less complex (not that I agree with that but there you go). They won't do a legendary pet because it will be seen as an unfair advantage and that was the point of making all the pets very same-same.

Our pets are still an asset as BM and mine aren't easily replaced for emotional reasons so I guess it depends how you look at it.

[vriiska]

I think thinking on the lines of the Gara quest where you "worked" for getting to the tame rather than just camping a spot, well getting Xan to spawn was awkward and RNG. I agree that more of this sort of self-driven storyline way of taming feels better as part of the BM experience. I also liked tracking the mud tracks for MoP rares to an extent but if they used it in a creative way to obtain a special exotic pet.

[Bendak]

I rambled on about something similar, basically bringing back pet loyalty without the drawbacks: http://eyesofthebeast.com/2015/03/how-b ... t-loyalty/

[Vephriel]

I rambled on about something similar, basically bringing back pet loyalty without the drawbacks: http://eyesofthebeast.com/2015/03/how-b ... t-loyalty/

I really like your ideas Bendak! While I know a lot of old mechanics are looked on fondly due to nostalgia, pet loyalty is one of those details that I truly miss. I agree it doesn't need the harsh repercussions (such as a pet running away permanently) but having even a little bit of that immersion back would make me so happy. I enjoyed working with a newly tamed pet to raise its loyalty, it really felt like a bonding experience and it was so fulfilling once it trusted me.

[erictks1]

I rambled on about something similar, basically bringing back pet loyalty without the drawbacks: http://eyesofthebeast.com/2015/03/how-b ... t-loyalty/

I really like your ideas Bendak! While I know a lot of old mechanics are looked on fondly due to nostalgia, pet loyalty is one of those details that I truly miss. I agree it doesn't need the harsh repercussions (such as a pet running away permanently) but having even a little bit of that immersion back would make me so happy. I enjoyed working with a newly tamed pet to raise its loyalty, it really felt like a bonding experience and it was so fulfilling once it trusted me.

Totally agree ... Or maybe through constant battle in raid or things will enhance the pet experience in fighting . Looking forward for a long chain quest too for getting a brand new cool beast will good apprarance aura which is cool.

[Lisaara]

I think thinking on the lines of the Gara quest where you "worked" for getting to the tame rather than just camping a spot, well getting Xan to spawn was awkward and RNG. I agree that more of this sort of self-driven storyline way of taming feels better as part of the BM experience. I also liked tracking the mud tracks for MoP rares to an extent but if they used it in a creative way to obtain a special exotic pet.

I liked these than any pet loyalty. The repercussions were terrible and I hated having to keep food on me at all times.

[Wain]

I do like the thoughts here!

Something that was brought up on another thread (maybe I should move it here) was the idea of making exotic families available to all specs and making BM more about its stronger ties to all pets. I know there are people who won't like this, but I'd actually support it. My reason is that I feel the idea of an "exotic" family is mostly meaningless now. When it was created it was to represent things that were a bit weirder or less like a traditional creature. As more families have been added over time that has eroded. How is a clefthoof more exotic than a hydra? A water strider more than a basilisk? In other words, (aside from spirit beasts) the "exotic" classification seems kind of forced to me these days, a few things BM hunters are given each xpac without any obvious distinction to the other cool new families that all hunters get. I'd honestly prefer that it get opened up and BM focus on other things that make them more about their pet, whatever pet they choose.

Dual pets? Hot swapping pets in battle? An extra ability for each and every family they use?

[SpiritBinder]

I do like the thoughts here!

Something that was brought up on another thread (maybe I should move it here) was the idea of making exotic families available to all specs and making BM more about its stronger ties to all pets. I know there are people who won't like this, but I'd actually support it. My reason is that I feel the idea of an "exotic" family is mostly meaningless now. When it was created it was to represent things that were a bit weirder or less like a traditional creature. As more families have been added over time that has eroded. How is a clefthoof more exotic than a hydra? A water strider more than a basilisk? In other words, (aside from spirit beasts) the "exotic" classification seems kind of forced to me these days, a few things BM hunters are given each xpac without any obvious distinction to the other cool new families that all hunters get. I'd honestly prefer that it get opened up and BM focus on other things that make them more about their pet, whatever pet they choose.

Dual pets? Hot swapping pets in battle? An extra ability for each and every family they use?

Yeah... I'm tending to agree with you on what is and isn't and "Exotic" anymore, especially when you have a look around and add up the now plethora of really exotic looking beasts, that do not require BM to be tamed.



I like the idea of BM having a stronger affinity with beasts and therefore control over beasts that would otherwise be too hard to handle as MM or SV, but maybe there is another way to do this... I'm not sure.
But still, the line is getting more and more blurry by the patch, and who knows whats tamable next for all...

[Divixon]

blizz should give back the training,lvling and feeding for hunters, they arent the same as what vanilla used to be..
and yes i agree.. they dont fee exotic anymore..

[Bambu]

I do like the thoughts here!

Something that was brought up on another thread (maybe I should move it here) was the idea of making exotic families available to all specs and making BM more about its stronger ties to all pets. I know there are people who won't like this, but I'd actually support it. My reason is that I feel the idea of an "exotic" family is mostly meaningless now. When it was created it was to represent things that were a bit weirder or less like a traditional creature. As more families have been added over time that has eroded. How is a clefthoof more exotic than a hydra? A water strider more than a basilisk? In other words, (aside from spirit beasts) the "exotic" classification seems kind of forced to me these days, a few things BM hunters are given each xpac without any obvious distinction to the other cool new families that all hunters get. I'd honestly prefer that it get opened up and BM focus on other things that make them more about their pet, whatever pet they choose.

Dual pets? Hot swapping pets in battle? An extra ability for each and every family they use?

Yeah... I'm tending to agree with you on what is and isn't and "Exotic" anymore, especially when you have a look around and add up the now plethora of really exotic looking beasts, that do not require BM to be tamed.

*snip*

I like the idea of BM having a stronger affinity with beasts and therefore control over beasts that would otherwise be too hard to handle as MM or SV, but maybe there is another way to do this... I'm not sure.
But still, the line is getting more and more blurry by the patch, and who knows whats tamable next for all...

I was the one who brought it up in the other thread. I thought people didn't like it! To expand on it more, I think that "Pet Enchants" idea that was mentioned a while back (somewhere, I forget exactly) would be a neat idea.. Things like "Holy Glow", "Transparent", "ON FIRE!" etc, etc...

Oh! What about access to your stables anywhere? That'd be a neat perk. Or better yet: Being able to purchase or find a "Stable Master's License" (similar to Tome of Dinomancy?) where you can become a Stable Master (ala Pandaren Noodle Cart) for yourself and people around you or something...

I always wanted something "racial" for hunters besides Starter Pets. Maybe each race could have some unique "epic" pet tame quest chain based on their starter?

Summoning a clone of your current pet but but do half damage and have half health? Would be a more-balanced alternative to "two pets", right?

I'm just spit-balling ideas. I think something clearly awesome but not super gameplay-changing is the way to go...

[Wain]

I was the one who brought it up in the other thread. I thought people didn't like it!

I liked it, I just didn't want to distract from the real importance of the other thread by continuing the discussion there.

[Equeon]

Copy and pasting my response from the other thread to offer an alternate opinion. This was in response to someone who wanted all pets to be tamable by all specs, but only BM hunters would get the BM buffs.

Taming exotic creatures is one of the biggest reasons I've stuck with Beast Mastery over the years, never switching despite several periods of being the least viable spec. The specification is called "beast mastery", and nothing screams "mastery of beasts" like the ability to tame T-rexes, chimeras, giant bugs, and even the spirits of fallen beasts.

Taking that away, and only offering the BM pet buff in compensation, would further homogenize the hunter specs and provide even less identity to Beast Masters.

While some of those points still stand regardless of the more fleshed-out ideas in this thread, I've always loved the idea of having two pets out at once or having further pet customization for beastmasters.

My reason is that I feel the idea of an "exotic" family is mostly meaningless now. When it was created it was to represent things that were a bit weirder or less like a traditional creature. As more families have been added over time that has eroded. How is a clefthoof more exotic than a hydra? A water strider more than a basilisk? In other words, (aside from spirit beasts) the "exotic" classification seems kind of forced to me these days, a few things BM hunters are given each xpac without any obvious distinction to the other cool new families that all hunters get.

In general, I feel like the rule should be "If this creature would require great skill, lorewise, to be tamed by a hunter, then the pet should be exotic." This works really well for things like devilsaurs (gigantic, very dangerous), silithids (higher-order hivemind creatures), and chimeras and spirit beasts (which possess great elemental/spirit powers). But as you have pointed out, a clear distinction has eroded over the years.

To be honest, I feel like this is because of the backlash and complaining every time a new exotic family is added, and because of a general attitude of wanting to include everyone. (I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I think it's good to keep some things exclusive among specs or classes every now and then.)
The more exotic pets are added, the less non-BM specs feel included. If Blizzard adds new "special" pets like Deth'Tilac, but makes them exotic only, this restricts these fun hunter-only challenges to a smaller population of a single class. As a result, Blizzard probably doesn't see these sort of things as being worth the trouble and makes them accessible to all hunters.
Or take Hydras, for example. Though they seem like pretty exotic pets from a lore/looks standpoint, changing that family to BM-only would have essentially screwed over all of the players who had kept their loyal ghost-hydras over the years... so they became tamable for everyone.

The addition of non-exotic "fancy" pets like the fire spiders, thunder wolves and flashy arcane serpents, as well as "exotic-like" regular pets like direhorns, have all served to erode more specific distinctions between exotic and non-exotic pets.

I'd honestly prefer that it get opened up and BM focus on other things that make them more about their pet, whatever pet they choose.

Dual pets? Hot swapping pets in battle? An extra ability for each and every family they use?

I really like these ideas, or some combination of them. Any of Bendak's suggestions for the loyalty system like buff selection, pet emotes, or cosmetic enhancements could also tie into a new idea of "Beast Mastery".

[Bambu]

I liked it, I just didn't want to distract from the real importance of the other thread by continuing the discussion there.

Heh. Good point.

Also, just read Bendak's link. I really dig those ideas! I think something like what they do with WoD Bodyguards would be excellent. Being able to choose something like "Carrier" (Pet gains Mailbox function) "Packbeast" (Pet gains bank access) or "Scavenger" (Pet acts as vendor/repair), all on Cooldown of course, would be neat too imo. Maybe Beast Mastery could have expanded versions! "Carrier can also port you to a capital city, Packbeast gains access to Void Storage and Xmog, Scavenger also sells helpful things, Cooldown for all reduced by half."

Again, just ideas.

[Sukurachi]

The perpetual problem with BM spec is: how to make BM unique and different without also making it overpowered or even "compulsory" (for groups).

I might like to see a few of the hunter's abilities transferred to his pet. Something maybe like having the hunter control more of what his pet is doing while using fewer attacks of his own. In this sense, you'd really be a beast-master.

Oh, and I WISH they'd let you loot a mob that your pet one-shotted... my GOD that's annoying. Before I even have time to get one shot off, my pet is off and munching on the mobs innards. No loot. (I know, it's a minor issue with running lower level content)

[Snowwalker]

I understand them wanting to let everyone use any pet, and that's a good thing, and to do so they had to make them all pretty much the same. But just like weapons can be enchanted, or epic, I think our pet weapons should be able to be similarly upgraded. I've mentioned before that I think your pet having a 'collar' slot, nothing requiring a physical representation on the pet, would allow hunters at least a little bit of boost option. There could be collars that are crafting things, drops... There could even be where it works like glyphs, and do cosmetic effects, like the fire, sha type effects. Purely a cos buff, if it the hunters choice.

Sure, this will let some hunters have a slightly better pet, but you have players already that are better because they have an epic, enchanted up weapon or armor from say, raiding. Not everyone can raid to get that weapon, or armor, but they allow it anyway. Why shouldn't we be able to have slightly better pets if we put in the effort?

I've always felt that everyone should have the same 'opportunity' at everything, but it shouldn't just be handed to everyone. There should be reward for those that put in the effort.

[erictks1]

I have a few ideas to get over the exotic idea, afterall they aren't really looks exotic anymore .

1) BM able to suit their pet up with plated armor .

2) BM gain the fel knowledge on this coming patch able to use the fel power to tame any beast regardless they are Tamable or not and able to imbuse them with desire buff through some quest or material gain

3) taming proto drake or wyvern ... Maybe some feel this is not appropriate but I do feel BM should be able to overcome some really badass creature... Just like Viking in northern or black hammer clan they both have dragon in their control ...

[Torachi]

I particularly like the idea of being able to give our pets armor and/or appearance buffs to make BM a little more unique. Either way, it could be a symbol of a deeper loyalty and understanding between hunter and beast; the armor representing the hunter's desire to keep their closest friend and ally as protected as possible, and/or the appearance buffs representing our companions' respect, affections, fierce loyalty towards us. They literally do not need to do anything but add a visual affect, and perhaps a flavor text to the "aura" description.

Fiery - this beast's desire to protect it's master causes it to emanate flames around it's body.
Shadow - due to it's fierce loyalty, this beast has become adept at traveling between the shadows, pouncing on it's master's foes from within the darkness.
Bloody or red glow - because of it's deep pride in it's master, this beast paints itself in the blood of it's master's enemies.

Things like that. Obviously worded better, but you get the gist, I hope. (If not, I blame this cold for my horrid descriptions.) This could be for both armors and appearance buffs, though. It would do nothing to affect BM gameplay-wise, but for those who prefer the spec more than MM or SV, it could definitely add more personality to it.

[Sukurachi]

3) taming proto drake or wyvern ... Maybe some feel this is not appropriate but I do feel BM should be able to overcome some really badass creature... Just like Viking in northern or black hammer clan they both have dragon in their control ...

while the "lore" arguments keep popping up regarding this, I have to agree: if these NPC's can tame wyverns/proto-drakes then there's no logical lore argument against letting players tame them. And yes, it WOULD make for an awesome class just for BM.

I'm not a fan of Rylaks, but I accidentally tamed the armored jet-engine Rylak in Nagrand, and have hopelessly fallen in love with his unique look.

I think a pet wyvern or proto-drake would have the same effect for me.

[Bambu]

3) taming proto drake or wyvern ... Maybe some feel this is not appropriate but I do feel BM should be able to overcome some really badass creature... Just like Viking in northern or black hammer clan they both have dragon in their control ...

while the "lore" arguments keep popping up regarding this, I have to agree: if these NPC's can tame wyverns/proto-drakes then there's no logical lore argument against letting players tame them. And yes, it WOULD make for an awesome class just for BM.

I'm not a fan of Rylaks, but I accidentally tamed the armored jet-engine Rylak in Nagrand, and have hopelessly fallen in love with his unique look.

I think a pet wyvern or proto-drake would have the same effect for me.

What's the lore problems with proto-drakes again? Aren't they primitive bestial "pre-dragons"? Still more dragonkin, but couldn't an argument for beasts be made just as easily since they were before dragons as we know them? Do the Aspects take issue with taming their ancestors or something?

As for Wyverns/Gryphons, I still don't understand why I'm not able to tame them. I paid for my Flight Master's License! I have the proper paperwork, dangit!

On a personal note: I REALLY want to be able to tame Cloud Serpents. Again, I'm exalted with the order, I have the experience! They're just fancy super-Wind Serpents anyway. Trust me, I tamed a Wind Serpent once.

And on a never-going to happen note: To Hell with physics and biology, I want to tame a shark! If we get an Azshara/South Seas expansion, I think having a beast that is essentially a shark that can move on land is a must. Maybe like a mudskipper? That'd be neat.

...Oh! It appears I went on a bit of a rant instead of sticking to topic. Sorry.

So, here's a thought, why are more intelligent (or uhh, "mounty" or whatever) beasts off-limits? I mean besides the word "master" and "pet", isn't being a Beast Mastery hunter about forming a bond with your animal companion to strengthen each-other?

Oh! Gronnlings and Yetis would also be neat, but those are pushing it for sure. I blame that SINGLE talking Yeti, screw that guy! >:(