WoW Petopia Community

UPDATE, 20160318 : the bear2 model has undergone a number of improvements since I started this thread. I've replaced the contents of this original post with the current state...


The back is radically better! This was by far the issue of greatest concern. It's not only lifted, the texturing on the back no longer stretches noticeably. This alone makes the model 1000% better

Old back :



New back :




Note from these that the white skin is still very different to the original. It was mean to be crisp and shine, with strong contrast, like a polar bear in the wild. The new one is matte and looks grubby, like a polar bear in a warm-climate zoo, when viewed in the game.


Animated comparison of the backs:



A huge improvement

Note also the tail seems a bit thicker and stumpier. I think it looks better like that too


The head is still bulky and leering, but the goatee has been reduced. But only by a bit. It seems like they were reluctant to compromise their artistic integrity on this one. But at least it's no longer so strangely protruding.

Old head :



New head :



Original head :




What hasn't changed at all is that the eye colour is just randomly spattered outside of the actual eye, like blue mascara the morning after a drunken night out Why go to the effort of making a mess like that? My best guess is they were based on skins designed for a model that has an eye glow, so they'd serve as faint background and mostly be masked by it.


The black (including diseased black) is now a bit darker. This I'm a little cynical of, as it's still nothing like the skin it replaces. They didn't change it much, just darkened and desaturated the entire image a little, which means the brown is now darker and greyer, but so are the lighter areas, meaning there's even less contrast when there should have been more. It's a job a non-professional like me could have done (and have done in the past) in about one minute. Compare with the old bear model at the bottom.


Old black :



New black :



Original black:




Overall, I think a big improvement. The back alone makes it worth it. Since this is replacing the in-game bears I'd still hope to see the colours improved. Or better, fork the models. Remove the goatee entirely on one and fix the colours to look like the old colours and it'll make a great replacement for the old bears. For the other model, keep the existing skin colour, and make the goatee as big as you damned well please and use that for Broken Isles

BTW, the official forum post is here, in case anyone wants to give any support:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20042844922

Thanks

Sadly only people with Alpha invites can post at the moment.

I hope the limited Alpha players can generate enough momentum in the thread to get a response to this.

The thing is I like it as a separate model option,but I do agree that it shouldn't replace the original bears as is.

Zalani wrote:The thing is I like it as a separate model option,but I do agree that it shouldn't replace the original bears as is.

I agree. The issue is. Only rares are being left with the old model. The rest of the bears for now sport the swayback hipster. Fingers crossed they fix it.

Someone posted a short video of a survival hunter nelf doing moves with her spear. She had a bear with her, and it -looked- like the back was fixed. At least it wasn't obvious in the video, but I'll admit it wasn't the focus. Maybe it's been addressed?

It must have been the angle. It's still bad in the current build. If it's flexing a lot it's not as obvious.

Wain wrote:BTW, the official forum post is here, in case anyone wants to give any support:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20042844922

Thanks

Sadly only people with Alpha invites can post at the moment.

Urging members who are in the Alpha to go to the thread and support it! #MakeBearsGreatAgain

I just... don't understand Blizzard's take on bears at all. The arms look so... ow. The face on the new one actually looks worse than the face on the old model. I mean, that's a pretty impressive feat given how outdated and poor looking the exposed gums and split lip are. And the back. For cripes sake the goddamn back. I get that they're in alpha, but who made this thing and said "Yep, that looks good. Hunters are sure to be happy with this new bear."? I've seen pictures of bears on all fours, I don't recall their shoulders having such a drastic down slope from their hindquarters. I don't even want to imagine how this thing moves with such a broken body (I hope they do something with that left front arm as well as the other errors in the model). And for the love of all the gods, make the black color black! I feel bad for bear druids too if they're to be given a similar treatment; the model has been wonky/bad long enough, let's not make it worse.

TygerDarkstorm wrote:I've seen pictures of bears on all fours, I don't recall their shoulders having such a drastic down slope from their hindquarters.

Exactly.

This is a bear.



Even the old bears looked closer to this then the new ones.

I personally don't mind the sports car look of bears, and WoW models are rarely intended to look exactly like real life creatures, they're more of an Azerothian variation on the theme.

But I do find it funny that the one major criticism of the old model was that very thing, and yet they exaggerated it even more in the new model. It's like corseted waist then huge butt high in the air.

That was more of what my rant aimed at, Wain. I understand the creatures are meant to be fantasy and not realistic, but it seemed very, very odd to exaggerate a feature that was already something that looked poor. I could handle the sloping back of the original if they fixed up the other skeleton errors and made the skins more fit with the other new models.

zedxrgal wrote:Sorry to bug. But can anyone check the Darkshore Cub??? ]

Not sure, Wains away on holidays at the moment and probably chilling, bear style



"I'll like, totally check for you when i get back man...."

Mmmm.....There are some good things about the new model as well as some bad things. Things that could easily be fixed. (I love pictures, be prepared!)



First off, the new black bear looks more in color to a real black bear than the original. The new one is more of a cocoa brown or dark coffee than really the black of a MALE black bear. The color is more uniform to the color of FEMALE black bears.



For the most part, black bears take on browner coats during the summer (the sun drawing out the color) while they take on blacker coats in the winter. Females and young bears tend to be more brown than males, who tend to be the lush black. (also depending on where they live affects their coat too, and females can come in just as lush a black too, there's a lot of factors that mix in)

But that's if we're talking about making it as similar to the actual black bear. Put up against the original texture, it's a brown vs a gray base. While the new one is a little more towards the true color of a black bear, but it's definitely NOT what we're use to. The highlights are a bit odd, but bear fur, like most all animal fur, has a shiny luster to each hair, which makes a jagged particular texture that's very hard to get without using full out hair mechanics ((I.E: loading animals with fur effects, something that eats up a ton of loading power and whatnot). So for what they did on a flat surface, they did very similar to what they did with the wolf coats for the WoD wolves/worgs. I like the flicks and such to give a sense of more fur, but I don't like the odd beard they gave them. Bears don't have beards, muzzle hair on bears tends to be short to allow for more sensitivity and whisker sensation.

On the subject of the muzzle, it's a little overexaggerated in length, making the bear almost look like they made a worgen face on it (the male one, not the chihuahua female face). Ursine creatures tend to have the middle length snout between canids and felids, with canids having the longer snouts and felids having the shorter. Note distance between eye socket and nasal cavity.


Grey Wolf skull

Black Bear skull

Cougar skull

In the new version, the nose is too long and there is too much of a hump that isn't given a good reason, as the new model isn't snarling to the extent of the original model. Lets talk about the snarl.

The original model's snarl is way too exaggerated, when bears snarl, they don't show THAT much of their gums as say a dog does. This is what a bear's typical snarl looks like.



And bears don't really snarl that much in the first place and don't growl at all, they typically moan, whine, snort, clack their teeth, stomp their feet, pant, huff, and roar. When they show their teeth, it's usually during the clacking of their teeth, and just before they open their mouths to roar or moan. So the original design was more canine in design. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because they wanted to make them look scary with out having their mouths hanging open all the time, (since they do the same for the wolves, who do snarl and growl but not constantly XD)

The newer model is closer to what a 'snarl' on a bear might be, but with the over-done hump of cartilage on the nose, it makes a very odd shape.

Generally the new body is nice EXCEPT for that back.



While the original model has their fronts lowered down, the spine wasn't in a very odd 'U' shape, it was still straight. This new model has given the bears lumbar lordosis, which means their spines are terribly messed up in the lumber portion, OR they're assuming the mating position (called lordosis behavior that females take on for males to mount them.) All in all, it makes a very odd spinal disconnect which makes the animal look more painful than it should.

In general, to fix the model, pull up the back to a more straightened spine, lower the hump on the nose, shorten the muzzle some, and personally I'd like the beard off but I can take it if the other fixes are applied.

Not that all that info isn't fascinating, but as has been pointed out, this is a fantasy game and Blizzard doesn't go much for realism in their creations.

Edit: Blah, it's late and I feel that I should add that I agree with you. I dislike the new model a lot and feel that maybe the bear is an area where perhaps looking a little more like their real life counterparts might be beneficial. The GW2 bears look pretty nice.

TygerDarkstorm wrote:Not that all that info isn't fascinating, but as has been pointed out, this is a fantasy game and Blizzard doesn't go much for realism in their creations.

Yeah yeah I know, hence why I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt to the snarling and stuff. But still, if you're referencing a real life animal, you should try to get it close to it's real counterpart. Or atleast have a good reason WHY they're suddenly Broke Back Bears.

*sees Broke Back Bears*
*awaits SB's inevitable (glorious) response*

I want to hug that post, 13thmaiden! xD After all, even though Blizzard doesn't tend to go for realism per se, some animals look more like their real world counterparts than others. It's certainly worth considering, especially since the upcoming model leaves so much to be desired.

SpiritBinder wrote:

zedxrgal wrote:Sorry to bug. But can anyone check the Darkshore Cub??? ]

Not sure, Wains away on holidays at the moment and probably chilling, bear style



"I'll like, totally check for you when i get back man...."

That is hilarious! Rastabear . He almost needs dreadlocks