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Wain wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:25 pm Regarding Sylvanas's "split soul", some people seem to have reacted very negatively to the concept. But I think it makes sense.

There a lot of people who seem to believe that our minds, or personalities or "spirits" are inviolate, as if we simply "are who we are" and all our choices stem from that. But it only takes knowing a good person who has suffered a brain trauma in specific parts of the brain, like a stroke or tumour, or dementia, or even a strong mental trauma, to know that external events can change a person's behaviour radically, through no fault of their own. And even then it's not all-or-nothing: the personality changes can fluctuate, and the person can be aware of their behaviour, and even traumatised by what they've done (this is the most heartbreaking). Our personalities are fragile things, even when we think they're constant.

I see what happened to Sylvanas as the fantasy equivalent of that. Instead of "brain" we have "soul" but the effect is the same.

The split soul isn't what people have a problem with.

It's using the split soul to justify genocide and paint Sylvanas as Innocent and set up a redemption arc because she wasn't herself when she did it.

This was made worse with the Anduin cutscene. She said Arthas needs to be forgotten because of what he did - excuse me? You aren't guilty of YOUR crimes because you didn't have a part of your soul, but Arthas, who was quite literally corrupted, is guilty of the crimes he did when he isn't in his right mind? What even.

Valnaaros wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:32 pm The Jailer has been killed. He apparently wanted to remake the universe in order to stop some greater threat, but we don't know what that threat is.

That's the most silly thing ever... The Jailer is evil... why would he protect/do anything to prevent more evil?

I feel like they are ruining their game by purpose so they can sell it/abondond it/ announce a new game instead

Just do what i'm doing.
Pretend this expansion never happened lore wise.
OR assume dreadlords did everything because that makes more sense.

I enjoyed the latest ZM chapter, but it's hard to discuss it without giving away spoilers. Still annoyed that the previous one required jumping ahead (story-wise) to a time after the raid is completed - something that casual players still can't do.

Unrelated: I brightened up the name/rank colours for the forum; I hope you like them. I ended up making myself purple because there were too many blues, and I made regular posters a kind of teal rather than the really drab grey they were (it's hard to pick colours that are easy to read in both dark and light themes!).

Wain wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:53 am I enjoyed the latest ZM chapter, but it's hard to discuss it without giving away spoilers.

I did like it better than the previous chapter. It was also fairly quick to complete, which is a bonus in my opinion. There is one bit mechanics-wise that could've been better explained (the cosmic power part).

I made this topic to be spoilers so I would love some as I dont play

I did see the video with Sylvannas two parts..and im sorry but I dont like her as a ranger general. The bad side of her before Shadowlands was better imo

My biggest issue with the "split soul" idea is that it kind of... steps on a lot of old Forsaken/Scourge lore in general.

It's always been a concept in WoW that undeath changes a person, not just the trauma of dying and being reanimated against your will, but that the improper "resurrection" if you will of binding a soul to a body renders it kind of emotionally detached. Many (if not most) Forsaken have experienced personality shifts that can range from mild to extreme, lost some or all of their physical senses, lose some or all of their memories, become numb to emotions (especially positive emotions) and so on. There is an NPC in Brill (William Saldean) with this dialogue: "Sometimes I wonder if my family is still alive. More often, though, I wonder why I no longer care."

This is what undeath does to a person, and it happened to Sylvanas as well. Her trauma, then being forcefully raised and made to aid the destruction of the kingdom and people she fought so hard for and gave her life to try and protect... and then it's kind of waved away and explained that, no, the "good" part of her was just cut out against her will.

What about the rest of the Forsaken? The VAST majority of which weren't even touched by Frostmourne, but instead killed and raised by the Plague of Undeath, or reanimated by necromancers? This is primarily why people have a problem with the soul split idea, from what I've heard and read. It kind of invalidates and excuses a lot of Sylvanas' actions, and detracts from the identity and lore of the Forsaken as a race.

Honestly the Shadowlands in general makes me confused about the Forsaken.

Like... are they just having a nice afterlife then YOINK they disappear and no one questions it?

Then there lies the problem of what if that soul went to Bastion and purged their memories? Would their memories randomly return?

Why do none of the Death Knights remember the Shadowlands? Etc.

The lore is apparently that the gray-scale world we see when we die in-game is known as "the Veil" and is the spot where Azeroth and the Shadowlands overlap. The spirit healers are kyrians who gather up souls that are wandering here and send them on their way. I believe it's kind of inferred that the soul "lingers" for a while before they actually get sent off to the Shadowlands, so most of the Forsaken wouldn't have even seen the Shadowlands since they were raised almost immediately after death.

... But yeah, all of the other stuff just doesn't make sense. Shadowlands is a huge mess and poked so many holes in older lore.

I was expecting the shadowlands lore to be more interesting, like Sylvanas could have been done for but her fans just want her to live so Blizz let her live, and the overall story is just bits of confusion between everything, I was hoping to get into how necromancy came to the living world and where devourers truly came from, especially the worm boss

Soo Sylvannas is judged by Tyrande to bring back lost souls from the maw and that's the "epic" end of Shadowlands?

Yeah. It's underwhelming, but better than her being forgiven at least. She's definitely gone for good at the very least. Time to fast forward away from this lackluster expansion, and on to 10.0.

Totally better lore ending
https://youtu.be/a1E7H1WrTug

Man Shadowlands was horrid... hope they find something better for 10.0

To paraphrase Future: "She belongs to the MAW."

***YEET***

Make Sure you go to the Trueshot Lodge (the Class hall in Legion) after you complete the Lorderon quest chain, go talk to Outfitter Reynolds for something SPECIAL.

SPOILER ALERT


" Uhh i have doubt in my identity. I feel week"
"Necromancy is Necromancy"
"Oki Im done doubting myself. Now im totally ok. Thanks for the awesome info"

WHUT???? That is soo weak....

" Uhh i have doubt in my identity. I feel week"
"Necromancy is Necromancy"
"Oki Im done doubting myself. Now im totally ok. Thanks for the awesome info"

OH GOD TELL ME ABOUT IT!

She's not the same as them, the fact she just walks in and gets a seat feels really bad to me. Sure she helped get the sample of the blight, Gimme a paladin bubble I could have done that where's my seat?

The whole not rotting, or suffering from decades of hate and hunting etc etc. Kiiiinda puts her in the cushy seat of the poser rich kid trying to hang out with the punks.

Don't care too much about the council seat but the whole story linie just felt weak and flawed