BM beta spec discussion...

[Slickrock]

Since the other thread is MM only... let's discuss BM talent specs here.

Looking at the new talents, I can see two potential builds. 31/2/8 or 31/0/10

Yep, we might possibly forgo any points in MM. Why? GFTT may be quite weaker the way they have it now, since crit rate requirements are going way up. Also 3 focus regen for the pet might not be enough. We'll have to see. Rapid killing is skippable now unless you are doing PVP, and Efficiency looks weaker for BM as well. Looking at it now, I'd rather put the points in the SV tree, which looks a lot better at the lower levels.

There might be enough focus regen talents in the BM tree that you don't need to go into the MM tree at all, esp with the combo of Cobra Strikes and Invigoration.

We'll have to see how it plays out, but the old standard of 15-17 points in the MM tree (which would be 5-8 points now) might be over.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Oooo, yeah, I think I have to agree with that. SV is definitely looking much better then MM with Hunter Vs Wild being obtainable.

[Slickrock]

Oooo, yeah, I think I have to agree with that. SV is definitely looking much better then MM with Hunter Vs Wild being obtainable.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.. HvW and maybe even a point or two in Trap Mastery if we don't need GFTT.

Time and testing will tell....

[Kalliope]

Also, improved tracking still takes five points, so there's not a whole lot of room to play around with that if full points are needed.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Yeah, and while Sic'em might be marginally useful, nothing else on that second row is for us, and even the first row talents are just meh. Meanwhile SV has improved tracking, improved serpent sting, HvW, AND trap mastery. Doesn't really seem like much of a contest.

[Kalliope]

I *really* like improved serpent sting, for the record. For any spec.

[Loridon]

I dont really like the new bm build.One off the most powerfull talent in bm tree is gone:serpent's swiftness.
Ferocity is gone to,I hope pets are criting enough without that talent.
I dont know what to think about the change from kindred spirits.

[Tahlian]

Remember....our pets are supposed to be receiving full scaling from all our stats in the expansion, so giving them extra crit plus what they'd get from us might be considered double-dipping. Which is also the reason why pets won't take party buffs in expac...they'll get the benefit of those buffs from our stat scaling already.

And I suspect that Survival talent still requiring 5 points isn't exactly intended. They reduced every single other 5-point talent to a 3-pointer...why leave that one as it was before, but not the others? It doesn't make sense.

I think that at least for BM, a leveling build and a raiding build are going to be slightly different. If I take the BM talents that I think should be max DPS, there's not enough points to take Imp Mend Pet, which you would definitely want while out in the world. I also notice that they got rid of all the uber-pet-tank talents. Hopefully that will put an end to people saying that "obviously Blizzard should make BM the tanking tree." Yeah, it'll make it a bit tricker to solo old dungeons...but that's an exchange I'm willing to make, I think.

[Loridon]

Remember....our pets are supposed to be receiving full scaling from all our stats in the expansion, so giving them extra crit plus what they'd get from us might be considered double-dipping. Which is also the reason why pets won't take party buffs in expac...they'll get the benefit of those buffs from our stat scaling already.


I think that at least for BM, a leveling build and a raiding build are going to be slightly different. If I take the BM talents that I think should be max DPS, there's not enough points to take Imp Mend Pet, which you would definitely want while out in the world. I also notice that they got rid of all the uber-pet-tank talents. Hopefully that will put an end to people saying that "obviously Blizzard should make BM the tanking tree." Yeah, it'll make it a bit tricker to solo old dungeons...but that's an exchange I'm willing to make, I think.

You are right,forgot the scaling change
Still serpent's swiftness is gone so bye bye bm in pve I guesse.

And yes all the pet-tank talents are gone,really not happy with that.
I like to do sometimes old raids/dungeons or other more difficult stuff alone.

[Slickrock]

Still serpent's swiftness is gone so bye bye bm in pve I guesse.

And yes all the pet-tank talents are gone,really not happy with that.
I like to do sometimes old raids/dungeons or other more difficult stuff alone.

If the loss of SS means BM is done in PVE, I'm done with the game. I wouldn't play BM as a PVP only spec.

That said, I really don't think it means that at all. You are working under the old assumption that the damage done by BM and the need to regen pet focus required SS to be viable. With all the rebalancing they are doing, we simply don't know how it will balance out.

We might well get a passive talent that increases haste in between stages where we get a point now. Or it may be that damage is boosted enough that it's not an issue.

If SS is gone, it does mean that BM may even more desire the faster weapons, but it all depends on where we might get other haste from.

We are going to have to start all over on a lot of our assumptions of what talents are key, since they have almost all changed.

I also fear that Cata, even after release, is going to be in for some major waves of changes, much more that Wrath had.

[Ryai]

Still serpent's swiftness is gone so bye bye bm in pve I guesse.

And yes all the pet-tank talents are gone,really not happy with that.
I like to do sometimes old raids/dungeons or other more difficult stuff alone.

If the loss of SS means BM is done in PVE, I'm done with the game. I wouldn't play BM as a PVP only spec.

That said, I really don't think it means that at all. You are working under the old assumption that the damage done by BM and the need to regen pet focus required SS to be viable. With all the rebalancing they are doing, we simply don't know how it will balance out.

We might well get a passive talent that increases haste in between stages where we get a point now. Or it may be that damage is boosted enough that it's not an issue.

If SS is gone, it does mean that BM may even more desire the faster weapons, but it all depends on where we might get other haste from.

SS is gone because BM mastery is Haste. We also get an attack that eats our pet's Frenzy and gives us XX% haste per every stack of frenzy the pet has or something like that.

[Kalliope]

And I suspect that Survival talent still requiring 5 points isn't exactly intended. They reduced every single other 5-point talent to a 3-pointer...why leave that one as it was before, but not the others? It doesn't make sense.

I think the only reason for this is the fact that there's only two talents to choose from in the first tier of survival, rather than the three in the others.

I hope this is only a temporary situation and that it'll be chopped down to a three pointer if another two pointer is added to surv.

[Koriani]

Yea..wth is up with Kindred Spirits. Two points for an awesome 10 point total focus bonus?

WTH is that trash?

Shots costing 40-60 focus, and a top tier talent adding a big fat wopping 10 focus to our maximum total.. Not 10% bonus, just..10..

Just...what? I kept rereading that hoping I was reading it wrong. But no...I'm not getting that at all. Here's to hoping "not done!"

[Ryai]

Yea..wth is up with Kindred Spirits. Two points for an awesome 10 point total focus bonus?

WTH is that trash?

Shots costing 40-60 focus, and a top tier talent adding a big fat wopping 10 focus to our maximum total.. Not 10% bonus, just..10..

Just...what? I kept rereading that hoping I was reading it wrong. But no...I'm not getting that at all. Here's to hoping "not done!"

Well better than Rogues atm anyways, they lost their energy increase talent.

.. unless it was made baseline ._.

Oh no. It was made a lv 10 talent ._.

[Gimlion]

Technically, it IS a 10% bonus... 10% of 100 is 10...

[Kalliope]

Having extra focus is actually potentially quite amazing. Having that extra 10 energy as a rogue is absolutely necessary due to the high energy cost of certain specs (coughmutilatecough). The biggest change to hunters is how much mobile burst we're going to have due to focus and its need to recharge. Having an extra 10 focus means an extra ability/shot, which equals more burst. That's pretty handy, tbqh. You get that, BW, fervor....oh my god, the amount of potential BM burst is disgusting.

I may have to play with this after all. xD

P.S. I'm calling it here first. If there are worgen BM hunters in a bs arena comp in Cata, it's furry cleave.

[Rawr]

From what I've seen of the new hunter talents and skills, MM is going back to where it belongs PvP. I can't tell with BM/SrV for raiding, but from what I can tell many enemies will be elementals and elementals have resistances, that may be the bane for SrV hunters as they are mostly element based. All and all BM still seems to be the "Leveling Spec" but I'm hoping I will be able to raid again with it really soon (like 3 days after Cata goes live).

[Saturo]

MM is going back to where it belongs PvP.

Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for me. BM and SV are both better PvP specs, and even then, the PvP stuff they're adding in MM is really bad. Ideally, all specs should have some clearly defined PvP talents, and we should get to choose whether to pick them or not. But now that Blizz are breaking our talentrees, it's just not possible.

Yay.

[Mockingbird]

The ideal is surely that any tree can be specced for PvP, and any tree can be specced for PvE, while still retaining their flavours.

I imagine we will inevitably end up with a 'best PvP spec' (or at least an easiest-to-use PvP spec) and a 'best raid spec" (I.e. highest theoretical DPS) but as long as each is competetive, I'll be happy.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Okay, a few things. First off is that haste is NOT our mastery anymore.

""Old" masteries
I would not focus too much on the old masteries, except for the third one that scales with gear. That one is still around. "

Meaning that the most we can get is 15% and that's only off of five stacks of frenzy, and the ability that grants that is on a 30 second cooldown, meaning it can't be up at all times. Further eating the stacks means the pet starts over from zero stacks.

Next, all three spec's will have 100% pet scaling. In fact anyone with a pet will have that. Until around level 75, the ONLY thing's that will differentiate the BM pet from the SV and the MM pet are 24% focus regen, and 15% ((After five attacks)) haste. Now compare that to MM, which has go for the throat and Sic'em, and SV, which has Hunter Vs Wild. Our pet's will have a lead, though it won't be anything major, and in fact BM will be behind from lack of a signature ability. This could very well continue, since when BM get's its Mastery , so do MM and SV. That though is just gloom and doom. A bit to early to tell right now.

That 10 extra focus it'n much, but it'll help us pop off shots that much faster. I kind of wish it were more, but I suppose that's being picky.