Leveling makes you "weaker" in Cataclysm

[Adam-Savage]

I had to read over this a couple times before it started to make sense to me.

Your primary stats go up, but your combat ratings go down. The reason for this is that those ratings convert to percentages. If you started with say 50% crit chance, and then gained a level and your new gear had say +4% crit chance instead of +2% crit chance, then you'd quickly get to 100% crit and stay there. This was the reason we implemented combat ratings in the first place. (You can blame Blackhand's Breadth.)

This particularly gets to be a problem when you reach max level. The reason is because you are going to go through several tiers of gear without increasing your character level, so we need to have enough space in the numbers for them to increase. We figure out what the highest say crit and haste chance the game can handle and then work backwards giving each tier a meaningful upgrade (or getting new gear won't be fun) and that determines the combat ratings on the starting gear.

We definitely understand the confusion / weird perception issues this causes and we've talked about some ways to completely revamp the game's combat equations so that we didn't need to use percentage-based stats influenced by ratings with diminishing returns. That is too large a change for Cataclysm, but something we might do in the future (when we aren't also tackling talent and glyph revamps).

Also remember that if you are leveling to 85, you are skipping over a lot of potential quest rewards that you can't get yet. The item leaps among levels are pretty large at level 80-85, which we had to do to make the upgrades feel meaningful. (Imagine the alternatives where you could go to Twilight Highlands directly from Icecrown and do okay.) Once those quest items are in, you'll be more powerful as you level. (Source)

Tuning abilities numbers
A lot of you are focusing on numbers, which are just such easy things to tweak at this stage that we haven't turned our attention to them yet. If a "fun" ability for you is synonymous with "one that hits hard" then what you find fun is liable to be random and switch from build to build.

We have adjusted mob health and damage quite a bit in the beta and we're going to continue to do so. In LK, quest mobs got to be a bit of a joke, such that everyone was used to killing clouds of them with ease. We're trying to return to a world where you can generally handle one, but might want to think about using some of your crowd control or emergency buttons when you get an extra one or two. (Again, that's the intent. We're still adjusting things to get there.)

Source

[Sarayana]

I had to read over this a couple times before it started to make sense to me.

I was going to say... weaker isn't exactly the right word. The thing is, if they weren't operating with %, the whole issue would be hidden from us anyway and we'd just see our crit rating go up. We're not getting "weaker," they're adjusting the game. That's how I see it, anyway.

[Kalliope]

This is the same thing that happens at the beginning of every expansion. >_>

[Feath3r]

We're trying to return to a world where you can generally handle one, but might want to think about using some of your crowd control or emergency buttons when you get an extra one or two.

Does that mean that my Priest will finally be able to kill as much as a Paladin and he won't have to run screaming like a little girl when he gets jumped by too much, or are they going to make everything plate friendly and my Priest will have to level through the dungeon finder because he needs a big strong mound of armor to protect him from everything?

[Sarayana]

Uhm... well, I've leveled my priest to 77 so far, and I don't have to run screaming like a little girl when I get jumped by too much or level through the dungeon finder... I find priests to be amazingly resilient (though I do have to spend a lot of time drinking... that's changing though, now that I got down to Meditation in the disc tree).

Either way, I think Blizz is aiming for parity. Not just with this, but always.

[Feath3r]

Uhm... well, I've leveled my priest to 77 so far, and I don't have to run screaming like a little girl when I get jumped by too much or level through the dungeon finder... I find priests to be amazingly resilient (though I do have to spend a lot of time drinking... that's changing though, now that I got down to Meditation in the disc tree).

Either way, I think Blizz is aiming for parity. Not just with this, but always.

Kill as much as a Paladin for me is up to 7 enemies, which is a bit low I admit since I've watched my Paladin friend kill groups of 10 on his own without trouble. Getting jumped by anything more than 5 never works well for me, regardless of spec. (Add stuns or silence and I'm screwed at 3)

[Adam-Savage]

I had to read over this a couple times before it started to make sense to me.

I was going to say... weaker isn't exactly the right word. The thing is, if they weren't operating with %, the whole issue would be hidden from us anyway and we'd just see our crit rating go up. We're not getting "weaker," they're adjusting the game. That's how I see it, anyway.

yah. I was lazy and used the original subject header.

[Anyia]

I'm still curious whether the old Beast-tamer's Shoulders will become viable again - I liked having spare eyes on my shoulders!

[Slickrock]

No, the old gear won't be viable again.

This same thing has been going on since the beginning of the game. You require x amount of crit at y level for 1% of crit. X gets larger and larger as the levels go up. They should have mentioned that. It's nothing new.

If they didn't do this, you would have hunters running around with 300% or more crit/hit/whatever. It's their way of balancing the stats, and adjusting for gear inflation.

[Anyia]

No, the old gear won't be viable again.

This same thing has been going on since the beginning of the game. You require x amount of crit at y level for 1% of crit. X gets larger and larger as the levels go up.

Yes, I know that. The thing with the Beast-tamer's Shoulders is that the bonuses are flat percentages, not rating!

[Sarayana]

Uhm... well, I've leveled my priest to 77 so far, and I don't have to run screaming like a little girl when I get jumped by too much or level through the dungeon finder... I find priests to be amazingly resilient (though I do have to spend a lot of time drinking... that's changing though, now that I got down to Meditation in the disc tree).

Either way, I think Blizz is aiming for parity. Not just with this, but always.

Kill as much as a Paladin for me is up to 7 enemies, which is a bit low I admit since I've watched my Paladin friend kill groups of 10 on his own without trouble. Getting jumped by anything more than 5 never works well for me, regardless of spec. (Add stuns or silence and I'm screwed at 3)

Well, the classes are different... I didn't mean to imply it's the same. I'm sure it's easier for a pally to round up 10+ mobs and stay alive, but then they're most likely also killing them more slowly (at least most pallies that do the aoe grind leveling are prot, from what I understand). When leveling my priest, I just shield and dot dot tab. Once I get the full group, the first mob will be very close to dead and then I spam mind flay. Well did, I just got mind sear so I'm sure it's different now. Anyway, with inner fire, ve, and bubbles I'm nearly unkillable. And giggling the whole time.

[Redith]

God, they better not make this like FF11. Where it takes a whole party to bring down one friggin mob.

[Shinryu Masaki]

God, they better not make this like FF11. Where it takes a whole party to bring down one friggin mob.

You mean a crab, right? Or a wittle wabbit?

[Slickrock]

God, they better not make this like FF11. Where it takes a whole party to bring down one friggin mob.

You mean a crab, right? Or a wittle wabbit?

Bunnies are 25-man raiding content.

[Slickrock]

No, the old gear won't be viable again.

This same thing has been going on since the beginning of the game. You require x amount of crit at y level for 1% of crit. X gets larger and larger as the levels go up.

Yes, I know that. The thing with the Beast-tamer's Shoulders is that the bonuses are flat percentages, not rating!

True, had forget about that, however, that stat differences would just be too huge to make up the gap.

I think the changed those shoulders.. on wowhead it is showing...

Pauldrons of Primal Fury
Binds when picked up
Shoulder Mail
675 Armor
+28 Agility
+30 Stamina
Yellow Socket
Red Socket
Socket Bonus: +4 Stamina
Durability 85 / 85
Requires Level 70
Item Level 128
Equip: Improves hit rating by 20 (1.27% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 58.

or did you mean these?

Beast-tamer's Shoulders
Binds when picked up
Shoulder Mail
741 Armor
+39 Agility
+38 Stamina
Durability 85 / 85
Requires Level 70
Item Level 141
Equip: Increases attack power by 78.
Equip: Increases damage dealt by your pet by 3%.
Equip: Increases your pet's critical strike chance by 2%.

still, the stat difference is just too huge.

from Cata lvl 85 5-man

Bloodpetal Mantle
Rare
Binds when picked up
Mail
Shoulder
1668 Armor
+199 Agility
+298 Stamina
Durability 80 / 80
Requires Level 83
Item Level 333
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 133.
Equip: Improves hit rating by 133.

[Shinryu Masaki]

Bunnies are 25-man raiding content.

I would actually laugh at that, but unfortunately that is pretty much true for FF11.

[Redith]

Bunnies are 25-man raiding content.

I would actually laugh at that, but unfortunately that is pretty much true for FF11.

Yha my favorite FF11 quote is "No matter what your level, or how powerful ya are, theres a bunny somewhere that can kick your ass"

[Worba]

I had to read over this a couple times before it started to make sense to me.

Your primary stats go up, but your combat ratings go down. The reason for this is that those ratings convert to percentages. If you started with say 50% crit chance, and then gained a level and your new gear had say +4% crit chance instead of +2% crit chance, then you'd quickly get to 100% crit and stay there. This was the reason we implemented combat ratings in the first place. (You can blame Blackhand's Breadth.)

This particularly gets to be a problem when you reach max level. The reason is because you are going to go through several tiers of gear without increasing your character level, so we need to have enough space in the numbers for them to increase. We figure out what the highest say crit and haste chance the game can handle and then work backwards giving each tier a meaningful upgrade (or getting new gear won't be fun) and that determines the combat ratings on the starting gear.

We definitely understand the confusion / weird perception issues this causes and we've talked about some ways to completely revamp the game's combat equations so that we didn't need to use percentage-based stats influenced by ratings with diminishing returns. That is too large a change for Cataclysm, but something we might do in the future (when we aren't also tackling talent and glyph revamps).

Also remember that if you are leveling to 85, you are skipping over a lot of potential quest rewards that you can't get yet. The item leaps among levels are pretty large at level 80-85, which we had to do to make the upgrades feel meaningful. (Imagine the alternatives where you could go to Twilight Highlands directly from Icecrown and do okay.) Once those quest items are in, you'll be more powerful as you level. (Source)

Tuning abilities numbers
A lot of you are focusing on numbers, which are just such easy things to tweak at this stage that we haven't turned our attention to them yet. If a "fun" ability for you is synonymous with "one that hits hard" then what you find fun is liable to be random and switch from build to build.

We have adjusted mob health and damage quite a bit in the beta and we're going to continue to do so. In LK, quest mobs got to be a bit of a joke, such that everyone was used to killing clouds of them with ease. We're trying to return to a world where you can generally handle one, but might want to think about using some of your crowd control or emergency buttons when you get an extra one or two. (Again, that's the intent. We're still adjusting things to get there.)

Source

It's always done this - every time you level your crit % immediately drops.