WoW Petopia Community

First of all hey guys, pulled one of my disappearing tricks for a bit XP Been off doing a lot of creating, plus work started and they immediately gave me a ton of hours, so I've been rather busy of late. Sorry for vanishing (and continuing to be rather absent for a while yet).

Next, a rant related to creative writing, because it is exactly my problem, and it kinda fits here.

I do a lot of creating. A lot of artwork, and a lot of writing. Now, art, I've gotten pretty good at taking constructive criticism. I went to school for it for four years after all, and the teachers pretty much tear down all your conceptions of what art should be and give you pointers on what you're doing wrong and how to make it better. There is of course some opening for opinions--art is a VERY opinionated field--but there are places where if you don't know the basics nothing you do is going to get better. I'm okay with that. I take praise great, and I've gotten thicker skin now for taking criticism--especially of the constructive type--fairly well.

Writing is another thing entirely. I've never been formally trained in writing, beyond standard English classes one is told to take in High school and college. In fact, my grammar lessons were pretty atrocious, because I just can't think about words so...technically. But I still write as a hobby--usually fanfiction, sometimes my own little works with personal characters. Based on feedback I've gotten through the years, I can reasonably say my writing is fairly decent, because I read books so often I've learned to assimilate and figure out what's good and what's bad. This goes for all aspects of it--the flow and rhythm of the story, creating good, well-rounded characters, designing a plot with no loose ends.

By no means am I a perfect writer. I've gotten constructive criticisms before on my written pieces. I'm usually very open-minded about them. When people point out grammar issues of mine, I usually do my best to fix the problem and remember what I did wrong for the future. If it's a plot hole, or a problem with a character, or (in the case of fanfiction) out of character-ness, I do my damnedest to understand where the person giving me feedback is coming from and try to understand it. Sometimes (usually in the case of character) I don't agree, and it's mostly a matter of aesthetic and debate, but whatever the case I always thank that person appropriately and acknowledge that they've usually made a very reasonable point, whether or not I agree.

Recently I've been working on a very long creative piece. It's taken me quite some time to create and I'm quite proud of it. Based on the feedback I'm getting, most other people are enjoying it too. As always I've gotten constructive criticism. As always, I've fixed the grammatical mistakes, acknowledged a number of very good points, and even sheepishly admitted to missing more than a few details that turned into potholes (not huge ones, but to a perfectionist like me it's aggravating as hell). I've learned a few more things too. Overall I'm very pleased with how it's turning out.

Then the bomb hits. One person had been giving me feedback with a few little constructive criticisms mixed in with praise; overall, they sound like they're enjoying it. Perfect, exactly how I like it. Then all of a sudden they whipped around and, after a certain event in the piece, started talking about how much of a disappointment it was. This was bewildering to me. Even worse, they started using phrases like "this sucks." I just couldn't get my head around it.

I tried to respond reasonably. Basically said that I'm sorry they found the resolution so disappointing, that unfortunately I couldn't please everybody, and then (briefly) explained my intents with this particular resolution. I also added that while I was perfectly open to constructive criticism, perhaps they shouldn't use terms like 'this sucks,' which to me gives a hostile sort of feel that reeks of flaming. Everything I've been taught about language, both in terms of just plain interaction as well as how to give a good critique when I went to school, just screams that this isn't the sort of way you give a good feedback response.

I figured this would be the end of it, but the person wrote back to my response. They claimed that it wasn't a flame: to quote, "I disagree. A flame is a pointless load of nonsense where the flamer simply insults at worst or at best states a dislike without giving reasons." Which is, in a way, true. At the same time, their entire response sounded so defensively hostile I couldn't help feel it like a smack to the face. They 'apologized' at least four times, but it was one of those "Sorry, but..." situations when you kinda get the feeling they're really not sorry at all. And to again quote, "Apologies but frankly it did suck" is not exactly....I dunno...maybe it's not a flame in the sense that they immediately give their reasoning behind thinking the way they do, but it's not exactly friendly or even professional.

The worst part is I'm not even entirely sure how to respond anymore. They DID make a lot of fairly logical points in their own opinion. I always try to see things from the other side if I can, and from the direction they were coming from, yeah, their arguments make sense. I don't agree with them, but they make sense. Thing is though, I can't even try to explain my side of things. The things they dislike, I DID have reasons for writing those things the way I did. But if I write back and explain this, while attempting to sound as calm and logical about it as possible, I have a feeling I'll be...what's the saying? Feeding the troll? They just got so mean about it last time, and maybe it wasn't intended but it sure came across that way. I'd love to have a good theoretical discussion with them, or at least explain my side of things, but not if they're going to bite my head off over how I suck again. Or start a debate that never ends. Guh.

It's just very unpleasant for me, I guess I'm trying to say. I'm not a terribly confident person. There are very few things I feel that I can do genuinely well, but writing is one of them. This was one of my favorite scenes to write, the one I was most proud of, and they just tore it apart with a one-two punch of logical opinionated arguments and hostile language. This was like a kick in the gut for me, a real confidence killer. I know I'm probably way overreacting over this, but damn, it's been a couple of hours now and I'm still mulling over it.

TL;DR:
I think I got trolled and it really killed my confidence.

Just ranting, really. I tend to keep my writing life to myself as it were. People know I write, but not what or why or anything of that sort, which makes it hard to really explain how biting the situation really is. Even if I don't get a response (this is a damn long post, holycow) it's nice to at least get it off my chest.

Righto. Thanks all.

~VelkynKarma

*hugs*

I'm sorry people are jerks. D:

I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at

"I disagree. A flame is a pointless load of nonsense where the flamer simply insults at worst or at best states a dislike without giving reasons."

following an unfounded/unexplained "this sucks." Does this person really not realise that they're proving your point?

And those apologies! It's like saying "I'm sorry you misunderstood me." This person is not apologising to you, he (she?) is using the guise of an apology to continue whittling away at your confidence in your work. Don't let him get to you. I wouldn't call him a troll, because he might quite genuinely feel the way he says he does about the work... but if he can't have a reasonable discussion about why he's dissatisfied with the resolution, if he can't explain why he thinks it sucks, then it's just pointless posturing.

I'm really sorry he treated you this way. Although I react the exact same way when I get blindsided by people like this, I always wish people could take a step back and just say "you are an idiot and I won't let your pointless criticism ruin my love for my work." Haha, don't do as I do, just do as I say.

If they said nothing constructive, they said nothing constructive. Even when called out on it, they're not going to admit it.

It seems that you went in a direction they didn't like and they went hissy-fitty about it. Congratulations on having a rabid fangirl/boy who feels strongly enough about your work to take this kind of stance!

I don't think they're a pure troll; I just think they're acting like a troll because you didn't go in the direction they wanted. I would DEFINITELY not take it personally. I know, that's easier said than done....sigh.

Thanks guys. For responding to the walloftext and for the support too

Azunara wrote:*hugs*

I'm sorry people are jerks. D:

*hugs back* Many thanks

Sarayana wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at

"I disagree. A flame is a pointless load of nonsense where the flamer simply insults at worst or at best states a dislike without giving reasons."

following an unfounded/unexplained "this sucks." Does this person really not realise that they're proving your point?

Don't let him get to you. I wouldn't call him a troll, because he might quite genuinely feel the way he says he does about the work... but if he can't have a reasonable discussion about why he's dissatisfied with the resolution, if he can't explain why he thinks it sucks, then it's just pointless posturing.

Yeah...this kinda threw me. I mean, there WERE points that this person made buried in all the hostile words, that did make sense and could very well have been constructive criticism, but the fact that the response was just so completely overwhelmed by things like 'this sucks' and 'sorry, but' just kinda obliterated the point. I think, if they had said it logically, reasonably, and calmly, I'd be much more willing to pick it up as something to discuss like adults. But that didn't happen, soooo....yeah.

I'm really sorry he treated you this way. Although I react the exact same way when I get blindsided by people like this, I always wish people could take a step back and just say "you are an idiot and I won't let your pointless criticism ruin my love for my work." Haha, don't do as I do, just do as I say.

Haha, I'm finding this much easier to do the next day, and after reading you guys' nice thoughtful responses, and after thinking about it a lot myself. It's upsetting that the person took such a 180 and became so angry with my work, but in retrospect...it's not like I ever set out to please that person to begin with. They read a story they didn't like. We have disagreements over how it should end. It happens. I'm not desperate or reliant for this person's readership or approval. The thing that was really killing me was the fact that I couldn't explain myself or my reasoning because it would turn into a very hostile back-and-forth debate, but then I realized...why DO I need to explain myself at all? If they didn't like it, they can read something else, the end.

Or at least this is what I'm telling myself. It still stings a little but yeah, getting better.

Kalliope wrote: It seems that you went in a direction they didn't like and they went hissy-fitty about it. Congratulations on having a rabid fangirl/boy who feels strongly enough about your work to take this kind of stance!

I don't think they're a pure troll; I just think they're acting like a troll because you didn't go in the direction they wanted. I would DEFINITELY not take it personally. I know, that's easier said than done....sigh.

Huh...didn't think of it like that before. Okay...rabid fanpeople are a bit scary, but I suppose in a very, very, VERY far-flung way, this is sorta a compliment. So...yay. Lol!

I'll try not to let it get to me. I might need a break for a few days, but I definitely intend to get back on the horse and keep doing what I always do. One bewilderingly hostile feedback session is not going to stop me from writing when I love it so much.

THANKS ALL FOR BEING AWESOME.

~VelkynKarma

I'm really glad you're feeling better about it now that you've slept on it.

Kalli said it really well. And you know, it happens every so often, you find a book or movie or series you really like, and it just gets ruined by the ending. I refuse to watch Heroes after seeing the last episode of season 1, for example, because the whole "Yay we defeated him!" -> "...oh wait" thing just pissed me off. The show had way more potential than to fall into those cliche "slipped into the manhole when no one was looking" outs. /rant It happens, sometimes we just don't agree with the creator(s). Thankfully, we don't all go all ranty about it, but yeah.

You remember my little stories about that orc hunter Boktor and his companion, Tusk?
I got praises from all directions and since I'm not a native english speaker, I always thought that there had to be some criticism. But it somehow never came. Did that make me feel good? Not really.

I read a lot myself, both english and german books, mostly fantasy novels. I soon realized that every author has his own style of writing. They way they describe landscapes, the way they design characters and stuff like that. Some styles just "click" with your taste, some don't. It's all a matter of taste in the end.

There has been a very successful series from Terry Goodkind, the Shanara novels. Almost everyone likes it, everyones read it, it sold millions of times and at least 20 novels were published. If I remember right, some author picked it up and continued it, but I'm not sure about this. Obviously, Terry Goodkind is a very good author and the Shanara stories are a very good read. After reading halfway through the first novel, I've been asked by a friend what it's like.
My answer was short and simple: It sucks!

It just didn't "click" with me at all. I didn't like the writing, the characters were dull, the story predictable. To me, Shanara novels suck. I never read a Terry Goodkind book again, just because I don't like his style.

And now why I am writing this.

A lot of people liked Shanara pretty much, Mr. Goodkind probably became a rich man by writing it and the overall opinion is a "thumbs up". Me saying it sucks didn't change that. It didn't make them less good or less successful. It just meant that I don't like it at all. Should Mr. Goodkind have been offended if he ever knew I said that? No, he shouldn't He just should have accepted the fact that art, no matter which kind of art, is a matter of taste. When he saw the number of books sold, he instantly knew hat not every person on this planet had bought one. Oh hey, what a surprise, some people don't like it. No, it just means that he wrote something that suited a lot of other peoples taste. Not all but a lot.

Look at musicians. No matter how rich, famous and successful they are, there'll always be some people who will rip on them, simply because they can't understand why everyone else likes that stuff. For me, Michael Jackson, Brittney Spears and Robbie Williams were phenomena, I never understood. I couldn't figure out, why those peoples music was loved and bought by so many people. But me thinking (and saying!) they suck didn't change their success and number of sold albums.

So, just smile, point to the number of people who like it and politely say: "I'm sorry you don't like it. But don't worry, it's not mandatory." Don't let this kind of criticism get under your skin and always remeber:

Just because Karathyriel didn't like Terry Goodkinds or Michael Jacksons art didn't make them unsuccessful or less likable for other people. It's just one persons opinion.

Only when "It sucks!" is the general opinion expressed, then you can start worryong about your writing.

I like Kara's comment. :3 Don't let that person get to you. In the end, it's indeed a matter of taste. But I still think "it sucks" comments are pretty pointless. But I'm not gonna dwell in that, since it's something you should just /ignore.

I'm not much of a writer myself, but I'm a story teller in more graphical form. Nowadays, because of the wonders of internet, people are used to being fed with a golden spoon. This often leads to nitpicking (let's say, detail or stylewise for example) but it should usually be pretty easy to tell who is actually genuinely interested in your story or just pointlessly trying to get their favourites through.
I've been the victim of trolling a few times, but it has only brought me more readers. All kinds of publicity is good publicity. People will form their own opinion about things and move on. Only those jealous and who dwell in the past are incapable of doing so.