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I see so many people calling Garrosh names and hating him. But why? except killing Cairne by an accident, what he have done bad and why everyone hate him??

He didn't do anything in Outland, even though his village was threatened by destruction. Then he was a complete jerk in Northrend, almost starting an all-out war between the alliance and the horde, right as Arthas was killing everyone. He's a moron, simple as that. It doesn't help that he goes from completely evil to completely good in about two seconds in Cata. That's what you call a "lorefuck", that is, they change something completely without apparent reason.

That and I think its because Thrall was so great. He was smart and calm and though an orc, a good leader. Whereas Garrosh is the complete opposite. Hot headed, lil stupid, and a typical orc stereotype. He has no dimension as a charachter at all. Its just "Garrosh smash, you no like Garrosh when he mad!"

I hate him a lot less than I hate Sylvanas...

Slickrock wrote:I hate him a lot less than I hate Sylvanas...

How can you hate Sylvanas? She's awesome! Have you seen how many victories she's had against the alliance yet!? Have you seen how many the rest of the horde/alliance has had!? She's far better than any other leader, Thrall and Magni included.

I see. bullet you made me laugh when you said red head =)

I see what saturo said about the lore problems, people can change i guess, but when this change happend too fast. Seems like he keeps his aggressive reputition, who knows, maybe he might change.

And I must agree that Thrall was a great warchief.

Slick, i fully agree. Once i saw how she makes undead, poor souls who were forced to come to a corrupted body, its just against nature laws, and it is disgusting. It made me stop playing my undead hunter.

Sorry Sat, Sylvannas did things against nature laws. And it is disgusting.

I just wonder about one more thing. How Garrosh became the new warchief, and why??

Mustafah wrote:Sorry Sat, Sylvannas did things against nature laws. And it is disgusting. :P

How is it disgusting? 0.o

Mustafah wrote:I just wonder about one more thing. How Garrosh became the new warchief, and why??

They lorefuck Thrall into being stupid enough to leave him in charge.

Saturo wrote:

Mustafah wrote:Sorry Sat, Sylvannas did things against nature laws. And it is disgusting.

How is it disgusting? 0.o

Mustafah wrote:I just wonder about one more thing. How Garrosh became the new warchief, and why??

They lorefuck Thrall into being stupid enough to leave him in charge.

How? enslaving poor souls who died is not digusting? you didnt saw the starting area? some of the undead freaked out.

About Garrosh promotion, yeah seems like a lore problem. Blizz will have to explain this to us.

I'd add my two copper, but I think Saturo and Bulletdance already nailed it.

I lied. /tosses in two copper

Another reason I don't like him, personally, is because of his outright racism towards other members of this own faction. Threatening and disrespecting Vol'jin and trivializing the Darkspear Trolls' accomplishment in retaking their homes and kicking the goblins to the slums in Orgrimmar after they first join isn't exactly a great way to endear yourself to a faction. Also, calling Sylvanus a "bitch", no matter what Sylvanus has done, is not a good way to treat someone who's supposed to be his equal.

While he may not have directly killed Cairne, he did create the circumstances that led to his death. Cairne would never have challenged Garrosh's leadership in the first place, giving the Grimtotems their opportunity to strike, if Garrosh hadn't been such a crappy leader.

I think it's the contrast to Thrall that is really grating. Thrall was an intelligent, careful, leader who treated the other leaders of the Horde as equals, valued their opinions, and was willing to help. Do you think for a moment Garrosh would have helped Sylvanas in retaking Undercity? Also, Thrall valued every Horde citizen -- he never would have threatened to kill someone for making an honest mistake. He also tried to form some sort of peace with the Alliance, sharing a philosophy quite similar to Jaina's, and stepped in when he saw an opportunity for improved inter-faction relations, even when it didn't actually work (i.e. sending adventurers out to "rescue' Moira Bronzebeard from Blackrock Depths, as a way to open up dialogue with the dwarves)

The one mistake Thrall made was in trusting the son of his deceased best friend far more than he should have. I can understand Thrall's desire to see something good in Garrosh ... to maybe be a father-figure to the boy, since Grom's not there to do so. Unfortuately, Thrall's friendship with Grom is probably what has blinded him to Garrosh's shortcomings (to put it mildly). Garrosh should have never, ever been put in charge of a daycare center, never mind Warsong Hold, and especially not the entire Horde!

Thrall, for all his great qualities as a leader, has screwed up royally by putting Garrosh in charge, and is just as much to blame for letting his personal feelings for Grom get in the way of what was best for the Horde. Saurfang, Vol'jin, Cairne before his death, hell, anyone in the Horde would have made a better subsitute Warchief.

Honestly, Garrosh makes me ashamed to be playing as an Orc. If Cerah's RP story wasn't tied into her Orcishness, I'd race change her.

Mustafah wrote:How? enslaving poor souls who died is not digusting? you didnt saw the starting area? some of the undead freaked out.

She's not enslaving them, they have free will. The Lich King enslaved his undead. Sylvanas just raises them. There's nothing disgusting about it, it's not like they were using those bodies anyway.

Saturo wrote:

Mustafah wrote:How? enslaving poor souls who died is not digusting? you didnt saw the starting area? some of the undead freaked out.

She's not enslaving them, they have free will. The Lich King enslaved his undead. Sylvanas just raises them. There's nothing disgusting about it, it's not like they were using those bodies anyway.

Did they want to be ressurected?

I just don't get why everyone hates Garrosh and loves Gary Stu Chins McPonytail. WAH WAH WAH I HATE ORCS. I hate everything! Horde stole my bike I think!

Mustafah wrote:

Saturo wrote:

Mustafah wrote:How? enslaving poor souls who died is not digusting? you didnt saw the starting area? some of the undead freaked out.

She's not enslaving them, they have free will. The Lich King enslaved his undead. Sylvanas just raises them. There's nothing disgusting about it, it's not like they were using those bodies anyway.

Did they want to be ressurected?

Who's saying they had to? Sylvanas is giving them the opportunity for eternal "life", if they don't like it they're free to kill themselves and go back to being dead.

Novikova wrote:I just don't get why everyone hates Garrosh and loves Gary Stu Chins McPonytail. WAH WAH WAH I HATE ORCS. I hate everything! Horde stole my bike I think!

Who said anything about liking Varian? ;)

Seriously, the only factionleaders I like are Sylvanas, Thrall and Magni, because they are awesome. Varian is too pissed off all the time, Velinde is just annoying with her constant "Furion wouldn't do that" and "Furion would do that I think", Mekkatorque is doing pretty much nothing and Genn Greymane sealed himself off from the alliance in it's time of need. Horde side, Cairne didn't do much either, though I don't dislike him, Lor'Themar is... Who again? Garrosh is bad in neverending amount of ways and the goblin guy (who's name I don't know) tried to sell of his people as slaves.

Mustafah wrote:

Saturo wrote:

Mustafah wrote:Sorry Sat, Sylvannas did things against nature laws. And it is disgusting.

How is it disgusting? 0.o

Mustafah wrote:I just wonder about one more thing. How Garrosh became the new warchief, and why??

They lorefuck Thrall into being stupid enough to leave him in charge.

How? enslaving poor souls who died is not digusting? you didnt saw the starting area? some of the undead freaked out..

Mustafah, Saturo is a 'lock, not a hunter. Enslaving and corrupting come naturally to her.

Those of us that are still reviled by that must fight against it at every turn.

And Slyvanas? She's no better than the Lich King, perhaps even worse.

Novikova wrote:I just don't get why everyone hates Garrosh and loves Gary Stu Chins McPonytail. WAH WAH WAH I HATE ORCS. I hate everything! Horde stole my bike I think!

^lol

I'm not exactly a fan of Varian Wrynn; he is hotheaded, and seemed annoyed with the necessity of the Northrend expedition in general. With Garrosh pushing his buttons, like he did in the Ulduar cinematic, this is even more apparent. However, he does have one advantage, one equalizing force that Garrosh is lacking.

His son.

Varian does listen to Auduin and value his opinions, and Auduin himself seems to be growing up to have just as hopeful an outlook as his "Aunt" Jaina. Also, he has a calming influence on his father.

*spoilers*

In The Shattering, Auduin convinces his father to *not* murder Moria Bronzebeard, and instead set up the Council of Three to govern the dwarf kingdoms.

Also, Varian's past at least explains some of his hostility. He did see Stormwind sacked by Orcs when he was just a kid, his father killed by a trusted half-Orc friend, Garona. Then, because of his corrupt Council of Nobles, the Defilas problem arose and his wife was killed. I think Varian now is trying to be the King that his people need, as opposed to the nobles/Onxyia-controlled figurehead he was for most of his reign. With Auduin and Jaina's influence, he has the potential to be a reasonable, intelligent leader for the Alliance, even if he does have more rough edges than Thrall. I think the pre-Shattering cutscene in his throneroom with all the Alliance leaders, as opposed to Thrall just talking to Garrosh, Vol'jin and Etirgg, shows that.

Varian seems to be calming down, or at least paving the way for a more calm leader in his son, from what I've seen (though my experience with the Alliance is limited after the Shattering, so I could be wrong). Garrosh, on the other hand, has just become even more hotheaded than he was in Northrend.

Saturo wrote:Who's saying they had to? Sylvanas is giving them the opportunity for eternal "life", if they don't like it they're free to kill themselves and go back to being dead.

What? Being ripped from the afterlife, and being tied back to a rotting corpse, perhaps one that has been modified with all sorts of cruelty, is another chance at life?..

Eternal yes, eternal torment. Not being able to free yourself from that rotting corpse? You think that Sylvanas would let you walk away?

He killed Carine and hes a douche in the book im reading (The Shattered)

About Sylvanas there's nothing bad with what she's doing in my opinion. She's simply seeing what's right for her people, the foresaken can't reproduce so she brings dead corpses back to life so that her race can grow. yes it's agasint the laws of nature but the forsaken don't really go with nature do they?, she's actually a good charater from her own point of view I think that's she's much better then garrosh, she actually helps her people garrosh...bleh he wouldn't help a orphan.

rubybeam wrote:About Sylvanas there's nothing bad with what she's doing in my opinion. She's simply seeing what's right for her people, the foresaken can't reproduce so she brings dead corpses back to life so that her race can grow. yes it's agasint the laws of nature but the forsaken don't really go with nature do they?, she's actually a good charater from her own point of view I think that's she's much better then garrosh, she actually helps her people garrosh...bleh he wouldn't help a orphan.

So when your Aunt Sue dies are you going to ship her over for "modification"?

She might be doing what she thinks is best for her people, but even as you admit, it's an abomination. That makes it right?

rubybeam wrote:About Sylvanas there's nothing bad with what she's doing in my opinion. She's simply seeing what's right for her people, the foresaken can't reproduce so she brings dead corpses back to life so that her race can grow. yes it's agasint the laws of nature but the forsaken don't really go with nature do they?, she's actually a good charater from her own point of view I think that's she's much better then garrosh, she actually helps her people garrosh...bleh he wouldn't help a orphan.

You realize thats just a cover-up rationalization, right? She'd help no one but herself, which shes proven countless times. I have to agree with Slickrock.....she became the very thing she sought to destroy -- The Lich King(Arthas). I used to like her, honestly. But after what I've seen her do, I'm ashamed to play my undead warlock and hunter.

Garrosh has potential and he has shown a little that the pup can learn new things, compared to Sylvannis, who could care less about anyone in the Horde except for herself. Not saying Garrosh is innocent by any means....he's a hot-headed bastard.....but I loathe Sylvannis much more because she stooped so low.

So again, that reproduction crap? That's just a cover up...a mere rationalization so she can get away with it like she always tries to do.