Latest Beta Build (BM info)

[Shadowkaizen]

As I was going through the new info I noticed this;

Beast Mastery
•Cobra Shot now increases the duration of Serpent Sting on the target by 6 sec. (Up from 3 sec)
•Bestial Wrath no longer costs focus.

I assumed Blizzard was still looking into our current state as BM hunters and this is hopefully the first in a series of changes to come to us. As was stated in another thread, we should give them time to put some more work into us before we get too scared.

Also they had a nice little update on the new armor vaule system, and for us it is;
•Mail Specialization - Increases your Agility by 5% while wearing only Mail armor.

Hehe not bad.

[Loridon]

Bm is still uselesse besides for leveling.
Blizzard is nerfing bm to the ground
The 2 others speccs pull more dmg and now cc immune is gone why should we use bm in pvp?
Bm is already bad now in wotlk,I only use it to solo stuff,but in cata its become even more awful

[Jangalian]

And you figure this...how, exactly? Or are you just trollin'?

Look, it's 4 am, and I'm not in the mood to argue, but if you can't see all the cool and awesome and very positive changes that Blizzard is giving hunters of all trees, then you have had your head under a rock for like, a year. BM is becoming the true ranged heavy fire of WoW. It's like Surv and MM have machine guns while BM gets a rocket launcher.

That would be so cool. Imagine, a [Wolfslaying Rocket Launcer]. Mmmmmm.

Everything that we could have, we WILL have by the time Cata comes out. The dark times of Wrath will be no more! BM will no longer be the raiding scapegoat! A hunter will be awesome again, and worth being proud of! =D

[Lohuran]

Bm is still uselesse besides for leveling.
Blizzard is nerfing bm to the ground
The 2 others speccs pull more dmg and now cc immune is gone why should we use bm in pvp?
Bm is already bad now in wotlk,I only use it to solo stuff,but in cata its become even more awful

I beg to differ. I raid as BM today and pull excellent dps. As much as other MM and SV hunters in our raid, in fact. Put enough effort, research, and practice into it and it can be done.

[Mockingbird]

I beg to differ. I raid as BM today and pull excellent dps. As much as other MM and SV hunters in our raid, in fact. Put enough effort, research, and practice into it and it can be done.

Well, true, BM is not "awful".

but for people who play to maximum potential (a relatively small proportion of the playerbase)

BM is functional, SV is competetive, MM excels.

In my personal and in no way massively biased opinion, BM is best because it just is, not because it produces raiding DPS.

[Saturo]

Look, it's 4 am, and I'm not in the mood to argue, but if you can't see all the cool and awesome and very positive changes that Blizzard is giving hunters of all trees, then you have had your head under a rock for like, a year. BM is becoming the true ranged heavy fire of WoW. It's like Surv and MM have machine guns while BM gets a rocket launcher.

Yeah, because being forced to take PvP talents is SOOO much better. BM is getting killed in Cata, even moreso than any other spec.

You can't call these changes cool, and awesome, and very positive. They're stupid. They're killing all specs. I mean, look at warriors. See their lvl10 spells? Compare that to Intimidation.

Overwhelming.

[Kalliope]

Troll post is trolling.

[Saturo]

Troll post is trolling. :roll:

I really shouldn't troll when I'm sleepy... :P

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Let's try not to argue about it. Not everyone like's the changes, and for good reason. Just because he disagree's with you, doesn't mean he is just trolling, or wrong. Same with Saturo. She just doesn't like what Blizzard is doing at the moment.

[Kalliope]

The post seemed to be more about stirring up the natives rather than contributing anything new on the subject, which is my objection.

Seems that it worked.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I don't think so. I think that's his opinion, and he isn't neccesarily wrong. Right now BM is at the bottom of the pile, though it is much closer to SV now. At the moment, this early in beta, BM isn't looking a whole lot better either. Just because he points this point and makes you aggrivated does not make him a troll.

[Anansi]

They're killing all specs. I mean, look at warriors. See their lvl10 spells? Compare that to Intimidation.

I totally disagree that specs are being killed. The latest Beta release has nicely fixed up the Marksman tree and I can actually put together a spec with which I am pretty content, and I'm thrilled about both specs used by my Shaman. Those have some definite quality of life improvements and some very neat new mechanics and spells (eg Ancestral Swiftness, Unleashed Elements, Healing Rain) so Shaman are definitely not being killed.

Hunters are coming along pretty nicely, I'm relieved to see. Saying all specs are being killed is quite an outrageous statement. Not all specs and classes are equal either, as each play differently and fill different roles. You can't look at talent lists and compare equal level abilities across the board and hope for equality of function and effect. If that was the case, we'd all have one class with three available specs.

[Saturo]

These new specs are still nowhere near as finished as the old ones, and they'll never be able to get it right again without either giving us the original mastery system, that filled as we put talents in a tree, to compensate for the statboosting talents, or by simply giving us more talents to choose from. I really don't think we'll see either solution at this point.

[Kalliope]

I don't think so. I think that's his opinion, and he isn't neccesarily wrong. Right now BM is at the bottom of the pile, though it is much closer to SV now. At the moment, this early in beta, BM isn't looking a whole lot better either. Just because he points this point and makes you aggrivated does not make him a troll.

My objection is that BM is still being dubbed "the leveling spec." Short of not pulling off your pets as easily, there's no mana restrictions that give BM a leg up as a leveling spec.

My expressing a dissenting opinion doesn't make me aggravated either.

[Anansi]

These new specs are still nowhere near as finished as the old ones

Considering the old (current) ones have been live for months upon months now and the new ones are still in development, you're right.

and they'll never be able to get it right again without either giving us the original mastery system, that filled as we put talents in a tree, to compensate for the statboosting talents, or by simply giving us more talents to choose from. I really don't think we'll see either solution at this point.

It looks to me like the Mastery system is still very much in a state of development and I wouldn't surprise me to see it change many times between now and launch and even after launch as people hit max level and start the raid content.

We also haven't seen the new Glyphs, we're getting a third tier of them in which I would imagine will see some former talents show up as Prime Glyphs. So we really don't have anywhere near a complete picture yet of how everything will work together.

I liked the original version of Mastery as well, the new placeholder stuff is really lackluster and I'm not overly keen on the proposed changes, but like I said, this seems like a system that will be in flux for a significant amount of time.

My objection is that BM is still being dubbed "the leveling spec." Short of not pulling off your pets as easily, there's no mana restrictions that give BM a leg up as a leveling spec.

In my opinion, BM gets the leveling spec yoke because it's very easy and convenient to play in a leveling environment but quite challenging to play in a raid environment in order to really squeeze out every last drop of DPS. So there's a fairly large gap in between the two realms, a gap which is much easier to bridge by playing an easier raid spec like Marksmanship or Survival.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

But that's part of the problem. There are three, top's four roles. Tanking, healing, DPSing, and MAYBE CCing. Doesn't that mean that specs meant to fill in certain roles should be equal? Or at least nearer to it then they are now? I'm not saying this to be argumentive or to bring up an old point, but how can you compare Mortal Strike or Blood Thirst or Divine Storm or the like to Intimidation? As a DPS class, shouldn't one of even BM's baseline abilities be a DPS ability?

There are other inequalities, mind you. Chiefly the lack of a real boost for BM's main form of DPS until late, late in the game. But Blizzard still has plenty of time to fix it.

Also Kalli, unfortunately at the moment BM wouldn't even be a good leveling spec. There isn't enough pet support inside of the tree's, and the main boost for pet's doesn't come until probably eighty now.

[Saturo]

These new specs are still nowhere near as finished as the old ones

Considering the old (current) ones have been live for months upon months now and the new ones are still in development, you're right.

Yes, with only minor fixes. If we compare how the trees for DKs looked in WOTLK beta, to how these trees look, we have a fairly decent comparison.

[Kalliope]

But that's part of the problem. There are three, top's four roles. Tanking, healing, DPSing, and MAYBE CCing. Doesn't that mean that specs meant to fill in certain roles should be equal?

CCing isn't a class role. If that were the case, a "CCing class" would have been dead throughout Wrath, as there's been hardly any CC this entire expansion.

Also Kalli, unfortunately at the moment BM wouldn't even be a good leveling spec. There isn't enough pet support inside of the tree's, and the main boost for pet's doesn't come until probably eighty now.

BM still has enough going for it so that the pet's aggro will be significantly higher than its hunter's. Having been annoyed by constant aggro pulls off my pets in the other specs - even with crappy gear, constant feigning, and misdirects - I don't see anything thus far in the new BM tree that screams "aggro magnet!!!" to me.

[Saturo]

[...]Having been annoyed by constant aggro pulls off my pets in the other specs - even with crappy gear, constant feigning, and misdirects [...]

The other specs don't have the pet tanking for them, they kite. A good levelling pet for a MM or SV hunter would be, say, a spider, for it's root, or a Silithid, for the stun.

[Kalliope]

[...]Having been annoyed by constant aggro pulls off my pets in the other specs - even with crappy gear, constant feigning, and misdirects [...]

The other specs don't have the pet tanking for them, they kite. A good levelling pet for a MM or SV hunter would be, say, a spider, for it's root, or a Silithid, for the stun.

Or a crab, since they're tenacity pets anyway - which was what I had done on the hunter in question. It was still more time-consuming than as BM at certain levels, simply due to having to kite.

The biggest difference, of course, was having to go through so much mana in the other specs, but that's a completely moot point now.