WoW Petopia Community

Jessibelle wrote:and there's the point they're already shamans too. Most races (excluding Taurens) aren't both druids and shamanism.

Also a shaman isnt connected with nature. They're connected with the elementals. Nature magic is different than Elemental magic.

So really no matter how you slice it, Pandaren aren't that intune with nature. They know a different kind of magic. They aren't specialized with magic.

Druid of the Scythe thing was...night elves....again. The night elves created the worgen. *points to the comics*

im honestly a fan of the older lore, i dont like what the "worgen" changed i miss the old were wolves in silverpine, ohh that was one of my favorite areas... and old shadow fang keep an all time favorite of mine, but nooooo change the lore and completely kill the dungeon, ugh i loved old SM too but MoP they changing that too,

Edit: Also trolls are shaman and druids
shamans use nature magic too, thats why the tauren are so natural with it,

Cerele wrote:

Jessibelle wrote:and there's the point they're already shamans too. Most races (excluding Taurens) aren't both druids and shamanism.

Also a shaman isnt connected with nature. They're connected with the elementals. Nature magic is different than Elemental magic.

So really no matter how you slice it, Pandaren aren't that intune with nature. They know a different kind of magic. They aren't specialized with magic.

Druid of the Scythe thing was...night elves....again. The night elves created the worgen. *points to the comics*

im honestly a fan of the older lore, i dont like what the "worgen" changed i miss the old were wolves in silverpine, ohh that was one of my favorite areas... and old shadow fang keep an all time favorite of mine, but nooooo change the lore and completely kill the dungeon, ugh i loved old SM too but MoP they changing that too,

Edit: Also trolls are shaman and druids
shamans use nature magic too, thats why the tauren are so natural with it,

It's not natural magic. It's elemental magic. There's a difference despite their similarities. If they were the same, we wouldn't have Druids being a separate class.

Jessibelle wrote:

Cerele wrote:

Jessibelle wrote:and there's the point they're already shamans too. Most races (excluding Taurens) aren't both druids and shamanism.

Also a shaman isnt connected with nature. They're connected with the elementals. Nature magic is different than Elemental magic.

So really no matter how you slice it, Pandaren aren't that intune with nature. They know a different kind of magic. They aren't specialized with magic.

Druid of the Scythe thing was...night elves....again. The night elves created the worgen. *points to the comics*

im honestly a fan of the older lore, i dont like what the "worgen" changed i miss the old were wolves in silverpine, ohh that was one of my favorite areas... and old shadow fang keep an all time favorite of mine, but nooooo change the lore and completely kill the dungeon, ugh i loved old SM too but MoP they changing that too,

Edit: Also trolls are shaman and druids
shamans use nature magic too, thats why the tauren are so natural with it,

It's not natural magic. It's elemental magic. There's a difference despite their similarities. If they were the same, we wouldn't have Druids being a separate class.

but also, that brings up the question, how did the Panda's learn to be shaman's when there was nobody to teach them how to control the elements.

Yeah, Druid and SHaman magic are very different things.

Similarities: Both stem from natural forces, unlike more unnatural things like Arcane, Holy and Shadow.

Druid magic: "Nature" magic. I like to think of it as stemming from two sources: The Sky and Life. Things like Wrath come from the sun, which nurtures life. Their blue spells like Moonfire and Starfire come from the sky as well, this time the stars, moon, and other celestial objects. Lastly their heals, which are based on life in general. Rejuvenation heals the skin naturally by simply speeding up the mending process, whereas the Light (holy power) is an instant, unnatural heal. Note that, while the Sun is involved and can be seen as fire, Wrath instead seems to take power from the raw fury of the sun and not the actual fire or heat.

Shaman magic: "Elemental" magic. These come from the storybook elements: Wind, Ice, Water, Fire, Earth. Physical, primal forces of nature or things found in nature. Note that none of their spells are based on the sun, the moon, or life - it's simplified into the physical elements around them. Earth is strong and forceful. Fire burns. Ice chills. Water, which is pure and calming, heals. While direct ties to "Nature" magic can be made, they're still powers stemming from different aspects of life.

The best way I can describe it is that druids focus more on complicated, out of reach power sources (Life, while in reach, is incredibly complicated and fragile, making it hard to deal with) while shamans use many primal forces that are easy to reach but more overtly powerful.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic - I adore describing magic types. :->

As for how Pandas learned to be shamans, they're a spiritual sort of people, and would probably have ties to the forces around them.

LupisDarkmoon wrote:Yeah, Druid and SHaman magic are very different things.

Similarities: Both stem from natural forces, unlike more unnatural things like Arcane, Holy and Shadow.

Druid magic: "Nature" magic. I like to think of it as stemming from two sources: The Sky and Life. Things like Wrath come from the sun, which nurtures life. Their blue spells like Moonfire and Starfire come from the sky as well, this time the stars, moon, and other celestial objects. Lastly their heals, which are based on life in general. Rejuvenation heals the skin naturally by simply speeding up the mending process, whereas the Light (holy power) is an instant, unnatural heal. Note that, while the Sun is involved and can be seen as fire, Wrath instead seems to take power from the raw fury of the sun and not the actual fire or heat.

Shaman magic: "Elemental" magic. These come from the storybook elements: Wind, Ice, Water, Fire, Earth. Physical, primal forces of nature or things found in nature. Note that none of their spells are based on the sun, the moon, or life - it's simplified into the physical elements around them. Earth is strong and forceful. Fire burns. Ice chills. Water, which is pure and calming, heals. While direct ties to "Nature" magic can be made, they're still powers stemming from different aspects of life.

The best way I can describe it is that druids focus more on complicated, out of reach power sources (Life, while in reach, is incredibly complicated and fragile, making it hard to deal with) while shamans use many primal forces that are easy to reach but more overtly powerful.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic - I adore describing magic types. :->

As for how Pandas learned to be shamans, they're a spiritual sort of people, and would probably have ties to the forces around them.

Beautifully written. Not much to add aside from that. But I felt it was worth commenting on.

LupisDarkmoon wrote:Yeah, Druid and SHaman magic are very different things.

Similarities: Both stem from natural forces, unlike more unnatural things like Arcane, Holy and Shadow.

Druid magic: "Nature" magic. I like to think of it as stemming from two sources: The Sky and Life. Things like Wrath come from the sun, which nurtures life. Their blue spells like Moonfire and Starfire come from the sky as well, this time the stars, moon, and other celestial objects. Lastly their heals, which are based on life in general. Rejuvenation heals the skin naturally by simply speeding up the mending process, whereas the Light (holy power) is an instant, unnatural heal. Note that, while the Sun is involved and can be seen as fire, Wrath instead seems to take power from the raw fury of the sun and not the actual fire or heat.

Shaman magic: "Elemental" magic. These come from the storybook elements: Wind, Ice, Water, Fire, Earth. Physical, primal forces of nature or things found in nature. Note that none of their spells are based on the sun, the moon, or life - it's simplified into the physical elements around them. Earth is strong and forceful. Fire burns. Ice chills. Water, which is pure and calming, heals. While direct ties to "Nature" magic can be made, they're still powers stemming from different aspects of life.

The best way I can describe it is that druids focus more on complicated, out of reach power sources (Life, while in reach, is incredibly complicated and fragile, making it hard to deal with) while shamans use many primal forces that are easy to reach but more overtly powerful.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic - I adore describing magic types. :->

As for how Pandas learned to be shamans, they're a spiritual sort of people, and would probably have ties to the forces around them.

/applaud

Thank you, you worded this a lot better than I did. This wasn't off topic at all! It's exactly what we're discussing.

My friend Daniel wanted me to add that "In the original RPG books, Pandaren always were shamanistic. They didn't need a special race to teach them, like Druidism. They also have a spiritual worship, much like the orcs do."

Jessibelle wrote:and there's the point they're already shamans too. Most races (excluding Taurens) aren't both druids and shamanism.

Also a shaman isnt connected with nature. They're connected with the elementals. Nature magic is different than Elemental magic.

So really no matter how you slice it, Pandaren aren't that intune with nature. They know a different kind of magic. They aren't specialized with magic.

Druid of the Scythe thing was...night elves....again. The night elves created the worgen. *points to the comics*

From what I've read, the Worgen weren't crafted by the Scythe of Elune, but summoned from their warfront against the Burning Crusade (well, green flame to be precise). After they entered Azeroth, they then were experimented on and 'reproduced' into a plague-bearing werewolf. Then the retcon came, which I'll ignore forever.

Considering the retcon is the canon now, it doesn't matter if you don't like it. It is what it is, therefore the worgen were made by druids.

I don't mean to sound mean when I say that but it is what it is.

I disagree that Shamans aren't connected to nature. Yes, they concentrate on different aspects of nature - Shamans draw power from the elements (earth, water, fire, air) and Druids from the force of life (animals and plants). But both of these are essential parts of nature as a whole and both Shamans and Druids are very concerned with keeping natural balance.

In any case, I don't think that there's anything in Pandaren culture that directly opposes druidism. I'm sure the Pandaren would be interested in it as they seem to care about balance in general and would probaly welcome any method that allows them to maintain it. At the moment, the only lore reason why the aren't druids is that they haven't been exposed to druidism yet. But Blizzard could change that.

Jessibelle wrote:Considering the retcon is the canon now, it doesn't matter if you don't like it. It is what it is, therefore the worgen were made by druids.

I don't mean to sound mean when I say that but it is what it is.

Exactly. Blizzard ret-conned the living hell out of the worgen story to explain why they're druids. Like Gimlion, I really don't like the new story. But as you say, it is what it is - because Blizzard says so. And they could and would do that again if they wanted Pandaren to be druids. But apparently they just don't like the idea.

Saying it's "elemental, not nature" magic is a nonsense. Elements ARE nature, because that's the definition of elements - the basic building blocks of nature. Every race which is shamanistic can potentially learn druidism easily, if they would wish so - and it wouldn't be too far fetched. The main difference is druids seem to be more about trees and animals, while shamans more about the raw elements - which is a difference like cooking a soup and eating a raw tomato - not as different as some people would wish.
Yeah, those two classes have different spells - because no two classes can have identical spells. But the concepts are still very close to each other. Just as Tauren paladins seem to be "plate druids", Pandaren druids can be their "tree shamans".

Mindsprocket wrote:I disagree that Shamans aren't connected to nature. Yes, they concentrate on different aspects of nature - Shamans draw power from the elements (earth, water, fire, air) and Druids from the force of life (animals and plants). But both of these are essential parts of nature as a whole and both Shamans and Druids are very concerned with keeping natural balance.

In any case, I don't think that there's anything in Pandaren culture that directly opposes druidism. I'm sure the Pandaren would be interested in it as they seem to care about balance in general and would probaly welcome any method that allows them to maintain it. At the moment, the only lore reason why the aren't druids is that they haven't been exposed to druidism yet. But Blizzard could change that.

Jessibelle wrote:Considering the retcon is the canon now, it doesn't matter if you don't like it. It is what it is, therefore the worgen were made by druids.

I don't mean to sound mean when I say that but it is what it is.

Exactly. Blizzard ret-conned the living hell out of the worgen story to explain why they're druids. Like Gimlion, I really don't like the new story. But as you say, it is what it is - because Blizzard says so. And they could and would do that again if they wanted Pandaren to be druids. But apparently they just don't like the idea.

Oh yeah they definitely could in the future, but introducing them as druids wouldn't make sense cause they were never exposed to it and at the time, very few races(Taurens and Night Elves) could be druids. But for now, they aren't. But you never know. Trolls never used to be druids but way later they got the training for it.

Also Andine, please read Lupis's explanation. She explained it better than I did.

Jessibelle wrote:Also Andine, please read Lupis's explanation. She explained it better than I did.

I did, that's what I was addressing.

Andine wrote:

Jessibelle wrote:Also Andine, please read Lupis's explanation. She explained it better than I did.

I did, that's what I was addressing.

Oh alright. My bad! Yeah I kinda messed up trying to explain it. Lupis fixed.

Er, sorry. I didn't mean to say that elements aren't natural. That's why I put "nature" in quotes - it's only the term I'm using for the magic druids use. It's not really correct to say that they're just about trees and animals, because they're not - it's part of their connection to life, yes, but there's a lot more to it than just that. It's hard to separate nature and element because in most every way, they're the same, and the fault is mostly in my using the word "Nature" at all. Elements are natural. They're just a very specific group of things.

Herp derp, and I forgot something - the elements, and the power Shamans use, comes from the Elemental Planes. Druids never touch that subject. So that's one big separating factor.

I never said pandas couldn't be druids though - it makes a lot of sense, knowing the culture they're based on. (More sense than shamans actually.)

I don't think that anyone meant to say that Shamans and Druids are the same. The original point was just that shamanism shows a strong connection to nature and that therefore a society that has shamans would also be interested in druidism as another way to commune with nature. But then some people said that shamanism has nothing to do with nature (though I realise that's not what you were saying Lupis), and that's what I argued against.

But yeah, I know that shamans and druids don't draw their power from the same source (though even if they did, they could still be different classes - point in case: priests and paladins) but they're both closely connected to nature. (And I'm aware that the druids' powers go beyong plants and animals, I just used those as examples for the force of life)

Mindsprocket wrote:The original point was just that shamanism shows a strong connection to nature and that therefore a society that has shamans would also be interested in druidism as another way to commune with nature.

This. Shamans even have that wolf form, so the connection to the wild is there as well (mostly as a remainder from older lore, where they were wilder than current elementalists).
Shamans make sense for Pandaren. One of the big elements of shamanism is cult of ancestors, which is/was very important in China.

They seem like they'd make fantastic Spirit Champions… (A warrior-like fighter that infuses his weapons with the spirits of his ancestors.)