"Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen.

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"Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen.

#1 Unread post by Aeladrine » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:29 am

I was searching for some raiding blogs, because I haven't ever, you know, actually raided. I wanted to get a feel for what I should and shouldn't be doing.

Instead, google gives me this.

I am trying to stay calm. I really, truly am. But I am so, so angry.
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#2 Unread post by ashdawn » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:16 am

fun fact, 50% of gamers are sexist.

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#3 Unread post by Wain » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:48 am

I only read a little, and skimmed a bit more... it was just too painful to read... but it read to me as the work of someone very young and inexperienced trying their very hardest to sound older, and far more insightful than they are. In short, it was tripe.
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#4 Unread post by Bonita » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:51 am

Well that was something else. The needy couple thing did sound like a couple I had in my guild. The woman was actually one of those women that expected everything just because she was a girl and gquit/faction transfered and hired other horde members to gank my boyfriend because he didn't fall for her crap haha.

I don't see why someone needs to write something like this though. It's hard enough for most girl gamers who aren't anything like these bad eggs. I can't speak in vent when I pug or I'll get kicked regardless of my dps. Especially if there is another girl in the pug and it's mostly the same guild. >.>

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#5 Unread post by Wain » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:22 am

It's a very one-way stereotyping, too.

The VAST majority of loud, obnoxious, whining, intolerant, attention-seeking drama queens in LFR are males. Yet if someone posted that this is a common issue with *men*. Or if they even became patronizing and said they were sure "it was only some men, but..." , it would sound absurd, naive to even approach the subject that way. Yet people readily do the same thing when it comes to women.
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#6 Unread post by Sar » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:32 am

I think it's more a case of Buzzkill being a dick, surrounded by like-minded dicks. Stroking their e-peens on how much better they are than a gender none of them have ever had a chance with.
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#7 Unread post by Slickrock » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:53 am

Well, from my personal experience with raiding with women... I'd break it down as follows.

~15 solid raiders
~4 good raid leaders
~5 that could never get out of the fire, nor could remember what to do on Ambershaper when transformed
1 that was a drama princess that expected everything on a platter because she would strip and /dance.

There's another factor here too that's missed. The guilds that are comprised of the preening 14-18 year-old males are also the guilds that attract the female players that play to that stereotype, because they can wrap some RL or GM around their finger with one Instagram pic and a few slightly suggestive chats.

One of my RLs (a female) was telling us this week about a female player in one other guild on the server that has a real life bf, and about 12 pretend ones in WoW, that she uses as she wishes.

The author of the post, while being an ignorant tool, is also likely encountering a very narrow range of the female playerbase, due to the guilds he's likely in.
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#8 Unread post by Lisaara » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:58 pm

While a terrible blog, I know the community they speak of. wow_ladies on Livejournal. They are a very nasty and sexist group. Heaven forbid you don't agree with them. You'll get gangbanged and trolled so fast, it'd make a cheetah look like a snail. Just do a bit of google search on them. You'll see some of their stuff. They've ended up on fandomwank quite a bit too if I recall. They're the type of community that gives us normal ladies a really REALLY bad name.

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#9 Unread post by peanutbuttercup » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:24 pm

Well... while he could've been more tactful about it, there really wasn't anything on there that hasn't been said before, that I haven't seen myself. Not sure why it's so upsetting if it's not a post directed at you?

I would say that there's plenty of guys who behave just as badly as the "stereotypical girl raider," complaining when they don't have their way, wanting everything for themselves, not performing and then blaming others.

I've always raided with at least another girl in my group (seems to be a 20% quota for females in a raid group nowadays). Most of them are pretty good. In my last 3 guilds, 2 legendaries went to female players FIRST because they were the best performers in the group. So much for girls not being able to perform!

Oh, and to the OP: if you're interested in raiding but have never tried it, that's what LFR is good for. Assuming you're starting from the tier 14 raids, this is a great guide:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/119 ... -%28t14%29

If you are really nervous about going in have a guildmate or friend queue with you, preferably someone with a little experience, that can hand hold a little if you need it.

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#10 Unread post by Lisaara » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:27 pm

I had to recently gkick a guy for being a self-entitled brat, amongst other things(see my two rant thread posts).

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#11 Unread post by Makoes » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:40 pm

I'd say from my experience that it really doesn't seem to make a difference whether the player is female or male, it just -seems- more like it happens around female players because there are fewer females playing wow (compared to the male population) so it draws more attention.

There's always going to be drama when you get a bunch of people together, the only thing that changes is the focus of the drama. Both male and female players contribute/instigate different aspects of that drama. But ultimately its the individuals choice on how they react to that drama, and that has nothing to do with gender.

That's just my opinion/experience.

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#12 Unread post by Valfreya » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:59 pm

There are people I play with that still dont know Im a girl. In the 8 years of playing i have been called hun and babe way to much.. I shouldnt have read this, it makes me so angry that this happens in a world that is fantasy. Oh hang on there are plenty of the guys in this game have a tendency to think they are epic, so yeah fantasy.

I met my husband on wow 7 years ago, he was my best friend in game for a year, and then I flew out to Australia and the rest is history.. We arent always in the same guild, he is not a raider anymore, and neither am I, but when we did raid it was never together, lol, I've actually never thought about it before. I have never been in a 'current' raid with my husband. We do the old school stuff together but yeah haha.

There are a lot of girls in game that are way better at gaming than some guys ive played with. I would love to have a group of girls to do things with, that would be so much fun!

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#13 Unread post by cowmuflage » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:13 pm

Junrei wrote:While a terrible blog, I know the community they speak of. wow_ladies on Livejournal. They are a very nasty and sexist group. Heaven forbid you don't agree with them. You'll get gangbanged and trolled so fast, it'd make a cheetah look like a snail. Just do a bit of google search on them. You'll see some of their stuff. They've ended up on fandomwank quite a bit too if I recall. They're the type of community that gives us normal ladies a really REALLY bad name.

Indeed they are. I've been there *shudder*

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#14 Unread post by Lisaara » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:34 pm

cowmuflage wrote:
Junrei wrote:While a terrible blog, I know the community they speak of. wow_ladies on Livejournal. They are a very nasty and sexist group. Heaven forbid you don't agree with them. You'll get gangbanged and trolled so fast, it'd make a cheetah look like a snail. Just do a bit of google search on them. You'll see some of their stuff. They've ended up on fandomwank quite a bit too if I recall. They're the type of community that gives us normal ladies a really REALLY bad name.

Indeed they are. I've been there *shudder*
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#15 Unread post by Tilo » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:46 pm

I see his PoV on it, but I think he's just narrowing it down to a small percentage who might actually act like that, those he's only had experience, or second hand experience with. So a guild doesn't want female players, find another guild that doesn't mind, or won't ever know... 'shrugs'
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#16 Unread post by Nevish » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:54 pm

Something that always amused me about articles like these is the surly disposition towards these unicorn-like women. I can guarantee you that this guy was scorned by a girl he had a crush on.

In my experience, when I wasn't being sexually harassed in the whisper channel during PUGs, I was constantly having to put my foot down on male members in my former raid guild. Not because they were being outright rude to me, but because they were constantly flirting with me, and trying to buy me with gifts. Even after telling them I had a boyfriend at the time who played the game with me and was often by my side, they wouldn't accept no for an answer.

"Mail wars" were common because they'd send me gold or expensive craftables, and I'd send them back. These would go on until one of us gave up, often to the point where they'd then say I'M JUST TRYING TO BE NICE TO YOU, GAWD! Failing to understand that while I appreciated them, I didn't want them treating me special just because I was a girl. It was basically a lose/lose no matter what I did, because I was either a "mooching girl gamer" or an icy bitch. :\

So, yeah, keep in mind, if that behaviour is expected of or forced onto girl gamers, they'll sometimes fall into those stereotypes because they feel like there's no other way out of an already awkward situation.

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#17 Unread post by Danielfboone » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:11 pm

I have played with many female players and raiders. I also have had two female Guild Leaders. By and large, in semi casual guilds, the women are just as good players as the guys. There may be a larger percentage of males that reach the "elite" skill level but I really wouldn't know because I don't play with those kinds of players.
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#18 Unread post by Aeladrine » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:14 pm

My biggest problem with the blog post is how he just.... assumes. He assumes he knew what was going on with the girl who had a lot of guys helping her. I mean... They couldn'tve just been helping her because helping people learn and helping them in general is part of what an MMO is all about? He assumes she promised them sex/nudes if they helped with stuff, but... I don't know. Perhaps I'm optimistic and more inclined to think that the men were being genuinely helpful.

As for the couple, sounds to me like he almost gor gkicked because of his attitude towards women. He said she was offended. Well, I can only imagine how a person like him would act on vent.
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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#19 Unread post by peanutbuttercup » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:42 pm

Nevish wrote:Something that always amused me about articles like these is the surly disposition towards these unicorn-like women. I can guarantee you that this guy was scorned by a girl he had a crush on.

In my experience, when I wasn't being sexually harassed in the whisper channel during PUGs, I was constantly having to put my foot down on male members in my former raid guild. Not because they were being outright rude to me, but because they were constantly flirting with me, and trying to buy me with gifts. Even after telling them I had a boyfriend at the time who played the game with me and was often by my side, they wouldn't accept no for an answer.

"Mail wars" were common because they'd send me gold or expensive craftables, and I'd send them back. These would go on until one of us gave up, often to the point where they'd then say I'M JUST TRYING TO BE NICE TO YOU, GAWD! Failing to understand that while I appreciated them, I didn't want them treating me special just because I was a girl. It was basically a lose/lose no matter what I did, because I was either a "mooching girl gamer" or an icy bitch. :\

So, yeah, keep in mind, if that behaviour is expected of or forced onto girl gamers, they'll sometimes fall into those stereotypes because they feel like there's no other way out of an already awkward situation.
Lots of truth in this. I think a lot of people assume that if guys in a guild are showing favoritism to a girl that she must be leading them on, but it often goes the other way where the girl doesn't want the attention and can't seem to shake it off.

Honestly I've found it easier to just gratefully accept gifts while at the same time reminding the gents that I have no interest in reciprocating (though I do try to repay favors with favors, whether it's crafting gear or helping with a raid). I've never gotten flak for it. Some guys seem to feel a lot better when they can "take care of" girls, whether that means giving them things or healing them more in game.

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Re: "Women and Raiding?" The stupidest blog post I have seen

#20 Unread post by cowmuflage » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:54 pm

But it often goes the other way too. A lot of people assume the girl does not want it too :/ It's one of those things that will always happen. You can't really say one of them happens more then the other as it all depends on where you are. I've seen my fair share of both.

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