Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#21 Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:09 am

My biggest worry is more incompetent people queueing up as tanks because they get pretty rewards. After the DK tank I had today, I foresee this happening quite a bit. Not to mention, once the tanks have acquired everything they want from their rewards, we're right back to square one.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#22 Unread post by Chimera » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:13 am

I still remember the times where i had balance druids in cloth gear running around in bear form or ferals trying to play resto or warr/pallies using 2h weapons-- specially that one warrior i met who used a BoA 2h wep which is why he refused to use a shield..

The possiblilities are endless and we are destined to meet each one if we get this new system

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#23 Unread post by Lisaara » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:30 am

This has gotta be the dumbest thing EVER. DPS should be the ones getting something....why? Cause of all the bullcrap we put up with. Failtanks and failheals we already deal with. the long ques. But of course, it wouldn't solve the problem. But neither would this.....Blizzard....what the HELL are you thinking?

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#24 Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:38 am

Easily fixed: Blizzard just needs to make it where you get goodie bags no matter the specc. It's just the current CTA: [Heals/Tank/DPS] gets slightly better goodies. IE say it was Call to Arms: Heals, it could be tanks and dps get flasks and pets, while heals get a chance for a mount. And it changes every 3 days or so, meaning a tank maxed out on mounts but not pets would have incentive to go in even if it was like Call to Arms: DPS, he'd still want to que for a chance at a pet.

I like this person's line of thought.

And tanking and healing are typically harder, higher stress jobs than DPSing. I've done all three and I can say it's far more mindless to be on my hunter killing things than it is to be on my tank and do a good job. The problem is, this new system, in its current state, will encourage those bad at tanking and healing to continue doing so.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#25 Unread post by Rikaku » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:59 am

Lower queue times sounds great. But I don't like this idea too much, I'll admit. This completely screws over the pure-dps classes. I mean sure, it's intention is to get people incentives to play tank or healer, but this completely screws four complete classes out of the running (Locks, Hunters, Mages and Rogues). Honestly, we're the classes that suffer the most. Because regardless of "the incentives" the other classes have ALWAYS had the option to basically 'insta-que' if they just had a spec change. The issue isn't "We need to encourage people to tank/heal" so much as the reason is...simply... there's just a ton more DPS specs/classes.

So honestly, the issue is just that. There's simply more dps players then there are healers... ever. Any game is like this, not just WoW. So it irks me a bit that we have to "bribe" the classes that already have it really good (tanks make serious gold off selling their queues, and healers are almost always welcomed.... god forbid you already have both in a group, prepare for literally an instant-queue) and offer them really awesome stuff (like cross faction minipets and mounts) just so that way the poor dps don't have a 15 min queue...

I guess, what I'm trying to say is. I'd rather have a 15 min queue and try for a minipet/mount then have a 2 min queue and only 1 person (cause you're never gonna need 2 tanks or 2 healers) walk off with one rare mount that I've been farming for months =/


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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#26 Unread post by Chimera » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:38 am

I like how they gave people incentives in general with the use of bags and gold for completing a random dungeon and from then on during that day, gold to keep doing random dungeons.

We get now like 140 (or was it 170?) JP for doing a random in cata which i loooove and it makes me do a dungeon even while camping rares. I guess what im saying is i like the idea of having goodie bags for doing a random dungeon, not by being a certain class or specification or well, for some classes, both!

I love my dps, i have only one character thats not dps and hes a lvl 72 healer. I dont even play him anymore either except to herb/skin cause the best i can do is dps, i stress too easily and tanking/healing when its difficult (i lived too long in the luxury of overhealing) makes me ragequit cause of all the people giving me static.

I aint gonna get jack all for my hard work at healing unless i can spend tens of thousands of gold and countless hours grinding reputations and dungeons to get the gear level for a heroic 85 dungeon.Thats also the big erk i have. I am TRYING to gear my hunter for heroics but the gear is not dropping and when it does im losing it in the rolls and i as well as everyone with this problem is suffering likewise.

RNG is just RNG, I dont hate it (i do but i dont too) but when people make you feel like your on a time restraint, it is very tough to not hate it. This Call to Arms only applies currently to heroic lvl 85man dungeons and MAY if it works out, give it to lower levels.

So, like, your gonna toss it out there for heroic lvl 85's, we're gonna try to gear to get these goodie bags, your gonna decide its not working out and take it away before us who arent as up to speed as the heroic geared people can try it out and those that did try it walk away with their spoils?

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#27 Unread post by Saturo » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:44 am

Worst idea yet.

I can tank, and I can heal. I do sometimes. But the stress, agh! D: I just can't do it regularly, maybe once a month and then no more tanking. Healing is better, more like once or twice a week. I can only do DPS without being stressed out and panicking about messing up. No really, if I fail and a mob smacks that stupid warrior who does stupid stuff all the time I panic, say "Sorry I suck" and then leave because, well, I can't handle failure.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#28 Unread post by Kurasu » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:27 am

I've got a question to put here: if this is such a horrible idea, what's the *good* idea? People are saying how this is the 'worst idea ever'. But can a better alternative for shortening those queue times be offered?

I'm personally ambivalent to the idea. The only way to know if this will shorten the queues is to let people actually try it and see how it goes. It's not something you can just up and say 'It's working/not working on the PTR' because you need the sheer number of people using it to know if it's yay or nay. So yeah, I'm jealous of people who will get the goodie bags, but I'm not saying it's a bad idea for shortening the queues. Not until I know if it *is* going to start working. ;)

I do know that I'm with other people, on the fact that my DPSer (who *can* tank, but isn't allowed to queue as a tank, but that's a rant for a different time! ;)) is my main collector, and while I do play two tank classes and a healing class, I really have no extra incentive to queue them because they're alts.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#29 Unread post by Malackai » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:54 am

I dint read the change right at first. (I thought it worked similarity like the daily heroic, like a call of arms once a day)

but now that I did this is the most ridicules change ever if it goes life like this. Nice way to screw "Pure" DPS over even more.

Yea I know that I am a hunter and I can solo pretty much the dungeons for the mounts. but the others might not be so lucky.

This change wouldn't been bad if every class had a "Hybrid spec" which is either healer or Tank or both.

@Kurasu

Perhaps blizzard should really think about revamping the current "Pure" DPSers (Rogue, Warlock, Mage, Hunter) and give them at least 1 spec that's either TANK or HEAL (this can perhaps help to short down the queues)

currently we have
Paladin (Tank, Heal, Dps)
Warrior (Tank, Dps)
Deathknight (Tank, Dps)
Priest (Heal, Dps)
Shaman (Heal, Dps)
Warlock (Dps)
Hunter (Dps)
Rogue (Dps)
Mage (Dps)

New Would be:
Warlock (Dps, Tank (Demo?))
Hunter (Dps, Tank (BM?) or Heal (Surv?))
Rogue (Dps, Tank or Heal?)
Mage (Dps, Heal or Tank? )

Warlock is pretty self explainable I really cant see those guys healing >_>
With the Rogues I am not sure.

Hunter you got some choices with them.
Either BM tanking (easiest solution) or more complicated ones like BM/SURV healing( think Bard like) or Surv tanking tho these would require a complete overhaul of the class (which makes it complicated or perhaps not even doable)

with Mages I am at a loss maybe some kind of Tanking where the Mage has a spell similar of that of the dk presence but with a visual change as well (think warlock demon form).
and encases himself/her with the element of the tanking spec so for example:
if the tanking spec is Frost the Mage becomes an Buffed up water elemental or perhaps an ice Golem
if the tanking spec is Fire its a magma like elemental/giant of fire elemental
if its arcane its a arcane elemental of even a arcane construct.
In case of the the elemental forms you can still see the Mage inside of the form.

But I know its just wishful thinking >_>
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#30 Unread post by Rikaku » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:37 am

Malackai wrote:@Kurasu

Perhaps blizzard should really think about revamping the current "Pure" DPSers (Rogue, Warlock, Mage, Hunter) and give them at least 1 spec that's either TANK or HEAL (this can perhaps help to short down the queues)

currently we have
Paladin (Tank, Heal, Dps)
Warrior (Tank, Dps)
Deathknight (Tank, Dps)
Priest (Heal, Dps)
Shaman (Heal, Dps)
Warlock (Dps)
Hunter (Dps)
Rogue (Dps)
Mage (Dps)

New Would be:
Warlock (Dps, Tank (Demo?))
Hunter (Dps, Tank (BM?) or Heal (Surv?))
Rogue (Dps, Tank or Heal?)
Mage (Dps, Heal or Tank? )

Warlock is pretty self explainable I really cant see those guys healing >_>
With the Rogues I am not sure.

Hunter you got some choices with them.
Either BM tanking (easiest solution) or more complicated ones like BM/SURV healing( think Bard like) or Surv tanking tho these would require a complete overhaul of the class (which makes it complicated or perhaps not even doable)

with Mages I am at a loss maybe some kind of Tanking where the Mage has a spell similar of that of the dk presence but with a visual change as well (think warlock demon form).
and encases himself/her with the element of the tanking spec so for example:
if the tanking spec is Frost the Mage becomes an Buffed up water elemental or perhaps an ice Golem
if the tanking spec is Fire its a magma like elemental/giant of fire elemental
if its arcane its a arcane elemental of even a arcane construct.
In case of the the elemental forms you can still see the Mage inside of the form.

But I know its just wishful thinking >_>



Not to sound mean, but no way. Blizzard should never consider that. That would make this game feel way too watered down. The classes wouldn't even have a point anymore. Why would you even roll classes like Warlock if you could play Hunter and tank AND do better dps when you dps'd? (for example) The game would also be destroyed sheerly by the fact of gear as well. Why would you roll a mail wearing tank when the dps/heal/tank plate wearing Paladin is around?

And I genuinely don't mean to sound super mean, so if I do, I apologize. But everytime someone says "BM a tank spec", part of me dies a little bit. The idea of every class having a heal or tank (or both) waters down the game so much that we would all literally be the same thing and just literally kill the world of warcraft.



Kurasu wrote:I've got a question to put here: if this is such a horrible idea, what's the *good* idea? People are saying how this is the 'worst idea ever'. But can a better alternative for shortening those queue times be offered?


This incentive is a good idea in theory, I just think it screws over the pure dps which are the people already screwed by the wait time. Like I said before, really, what's stopping tanks and heals from queing anyways? I mean sure some may just hate pugging, but I know dps who hate pugging. I know tanks who sell their queues at 50-300g a pop. I mean, really? 300g for a queue timer? I know a shorter queue would be awesome in a perfect world, it just makes me bitter that they would also get the mounts (unless... I'm playing at 3 in the morning and theres a call to arms dps)

But... I suppose you do have a point. I genuinely can't think of a better alternative. I mean other than what we have now.


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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#31 Unread post by Aleu » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:46 am

Didn't they say you can only have a chance at the mounts dropping from the bags if you complete the dungeon the mount drops from? Such as, if you're leveling a tank (I say Tank because I honestly believe no other role will get it besides tank. Maybe Healer) and got into a heroic Sethekk Halls. I believe then you have a chance at the Raven Lord mount, but once you out level that dungeon you may no longer have a chance at it. This would mean max level characters still have to grind it out. If not... Then just make it have the same drop rate as the actual dungeon drop. >>

I honestly don't think this will change much. It's supposed to get more people to queue for random dungeon finder, but I know I tend to avoid most PUGs with all three of my max toons. Druid = Tank and rarely DPS. Hunter = Main and DPS. Shaman = Healer and sometimes DPS. I can see how it may be seen as unfair to pure DPS classes since we have no choice, but to DPS. D:

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#32 Unread post by Saturo » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:02 am

Kurasu wrote:I've got a question to put here: if this is such a horrible idea, what's the *good* idea? People are saying how this is the 'worst idea
I can't say that I have a better idea, unless "Leave it as it is" counts. Really, the current system is decent enough, and even though I have half-hour queues I really don't mind, given the alternatives.

See, the problem is, my favorite classes, and the ones that I play well, are mages, warlocks and hunters. Which means I'm screwed, unless I force myself to play something I don't like, which really isn't an option. I can't stand warriors or shaman, which leaves me paladin, druid and priest. Now, priest isn't all that bad, but I can't play them for more than half an hour at a time, which means they're not an option. That means I'm forced to use a paladin or a druid. I like resto druids, and I like prot pallies, but they're still nowhere near as much fun as my mages or warlocks. Notice how I don't even mention DK-tanking? It's because I HATE using a twohander. I absolutely hate it.

Basically, for this to be fair, they'd have to make the prot pally playstyle like the fire mage one. Is that an option? Not really.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#33 Unread post by Miraga » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:14 am

I'm concerned as to if the new dungeon mounts will drop. I don't care much about instances I can solo farm but I can't solo the Cata dungeons... My gear is not up to par in order to farm it and I doubt it ever will. It also requires more precision than I have :P I don't think it's fair that they get a chance at these mounts IF that's indeed how it works. They just gave Anzu and stuff as examples saying "mounts such as..." so I'm not sure if those have a chance to drop.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#34 Unread post by Saturo » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:26 am

Miraga wrote:@Saturo: I'm typing this in class and a kid behind me looked at your siggy and went "WTF?" X]
Hehe, awesome. :D
Miraga wrote:I'm concerned as to if the new dungeon mounts will drop. I don't care much about instances I can solo farm but I can't solo the Cata dungeons... My gear is not up to par in order to farm it and I doubt it ever will. It also requires more precision than I have :P I don't think it's fair that they get a chance at these mounts IF that's indeed how it works. They just gave Anzu and stuff as examples saying "mounts such as..." so I'm not sure if those have a chance to drop.
If they put in unique mounts it would be even worse. A tank/healer only mount. -.-

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#35 Unread post by Royi » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:00 am

"Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme."

This makes me excited since I'm in the process of leveling my tankadin.

I dont believe its unfair for instead of a tank or healer running a dungeon by themselves for that 1% chance, they are queuing and helping your (assuming whomever reads this whos upset is a dps role) group. I just know when I would queue for a dungeon on my hunter and it says approx wait time 37 minutes, something is wrong with the system.

We'll see how it plays out. I think ultimately tanking or healing is "not as fun" (for most players) (hence why theres never a shortage of dps) so to give out some moderate rewards for those people to play the "not as fun" (for most players) roles isnt such a bad thing.


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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#36 Unread post by Vephriel » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:13 am

I personally don't have any qualms with this idea. The mounts that they mention are ones that can be obtained in other ways, and I think it's a nice way of giving motivation boosts for more people to try out tanks and healers.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#37 Unread post by Miraga » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:21 am

If this works, I hope they make the mounts and stuff BoA since why would fancy stuff drop for level 20 dungeon tanks and what not? I mean, it's not hard to tank at lower levels even as a DPS class. I just know that I hate waiting an hour for Northrend dungeons when I want to get those quests done. >__>

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#38 Unread post by Miyon » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:29 am

Vephriel wrote:I personally don't have any qualms with this idea. The mounts that they mention are ones that can be obtained in other ways, and I think it's a nice way of giving motivation boosts for more people to try out tanks and healers.


I think I'll have to second this. I do understand all the QQ'ing, but it doesn't really bother me. Gives me a reason to actually ever level a tank. And try to gear my shaman out of the pvp gear I put on her just to get higher ilvl.

And the other idea someone mentioned, if they don't make the items boa, at least make them boe. So that mounts and all the other things can be mailed around. And to top it, make them something so people can't put them on the AH and rip off other players.

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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#39 Unread post by Royi » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:35 am

Miyon wrote:
Vephriel wrote:I personally don't have any qualms with this idea. The mounts that they mention are ones that can be obtained in other ways, and I think it's a nice way of giving motivation boosts for more people to try out tanks and healers.


I think I'll have to second this. I do understand all the QQ'ing, but it doesn't really bother me. Gives me a reason to actually ever level a tank. And try to gear my shaman out of the pvp gear I put on her just to get higher ilvl.

And the other idea someone mentioned, if they don't make the items boa, at least make them boe. So that mounts and all the other things can be mailed around. And to top it, make them something so people can't put them on the AH and rip off other players.


they cant make a BOE item that cant be put on the AH. They would never make the mounts BOE. Especially for something that already drops in regular dungeons.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms

#40 Unread post by Sasrei » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:21 am

So..... its for that specific dungeon only? But what about the mini pets they were talking about, and the heroic dungeons at 85 with mount are stonecore and vortex pinnacle. So yes its nice for tanks and healers, and shorter ques are nice but then you can no longer do a dungeon with your guild tank or healer, which is odd to me since blizzard has gone on and on about doing stuff with the guild (especially with all the new guild to do stuff coming) and instead of waiting 40 mins to get into a dungeon, the possibility of waiting 5 mins to get a tank who doesnt know how to maintain agro, a healer who you have out healed with mend pet is truly... frightening.. I mean we get that now and its a waste of 40 mins sure, but with the stupid kick system I forsee a hell of alot of repair bills for dps.. and ill bet we will lose alot of great dps for them to bring out their tanks and healers.

Dps will never get call to arms, unless its really friggen early in the morning, I mean really.. the reason some people dont play tanks or healers is because of the stress involved, the mechanics and nerfs. BOA is nice but I doubt that would ever happen just because of the mounts..

I think the bag should go for everyone, dps works just as hard as the tank (I sometimes end up tanking with my pet more then the tank) that in itself would make more people want to que up mostly cause I am dps, never tanked or healed and dont really wanna..

while on the idea of fixing dungeon ques.. why dont they fix the pvp ques.. instead of adding more and more stuff to 4.1 making it get pushed back more and more...

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