Crazy Idea that just might work

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Crazy Idea that just might work

#1 Unread post by pop » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:47 am

Exotic beast

You master the art of beast training, teaching you the ability to tame Exotic pets and reducing the cooldown of your Pet Special Abilities by 30%. In addition, your pets will lose its ferocity, tenacity and cunning tree type, and instead would be in the exotic category, enabling your pet to learn ALL available skills and talents from the 3 trees.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#2 Unread post by Worba » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:07 am

I see a balancing nightmare in your future... ;)

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#3 Unread post by pop » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:15 am

Worba wrote:I see a balancing nightmare in your future... ;)
pssh screw balance, I want OP pets. I want my pvp/pve rhino to have rhino blood.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#4 Unread post by GormanGhaste » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:53 pm

pop wrote:pssh screw balance, I want OP pets
We've been arguing in other threads about what defines us BM hunters, and I think you've hit the nail on the head! :)
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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#5 Unread post by pop » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:30 pm

GormanGhaste wrote:
pop wrote:pssh screw balance, I want OP pets
We've been arguing in other threads about what defines us BM hunters, and I think you've hit the nail on the head! :)
IKR our pet should be a force of death, hard hittin, and harder to die.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#6 Unread post by Ziarre » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:43 pm

Worba wrote:I see a balancing nightmare in your future... ;)
Yup. Hard-hitting pets are good, and we have those. BM pets are 40-50% of our dps on live. OP pets will just get us nerfed back into the dark ages.
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It's like daring someone to go insult a bunch of kindly old nuns. You'll wind up going back to your friends with a story about how they smiled at your insults and tried to give you cookies, or something.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#7 Unread post by pop » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:45 pm

Ziarre wrote:
Worba wrote:I see a balancing nightmare in your future... ;)
Yup. Hard-hitting pets are good, and we have those. BM pets are 40-50% of our dps on live. OP pets will just get us nerfed back into the dark ages.
Master of Beast should have stronger pet, not just hard hitters.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#8 Unread post by Ziarre » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:52 pm

...We do. That's what I just said. :|
Acherontia wrote:

It's like daring someone to go insult a bunch of kindly old nuns. You'll wind up going back to your friends with a story about how they smiled at your insults and tried to give you cookies, or something.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#9 Unread post by pop » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:58 pm

Ziarre wrote:...We do. That's what I just said. :|
strong =/= can cause damage

strong == can withstand damage.

Having said, which part of the game would make us op of this is implenmented? PVE? a hard hitting tenacity pet would be just the same as a ferocity pet if this is implemented. PVP? tenacity pet could easily die in pvp, and it's like BM are competitive in end game pvp anyway.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#10 Unread post by Ziarre » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:01 am

I think you underestimate just how much of a nightmare a pet with all spec abilities would be in PvP.
Acherontia wrote:

It's like daring someone to go insult a bunch of kindly old nuns. You'll wind up going back to your friends with a story about how they smiled at your insults and tried to give you cookies, or something.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#11 Unread post by pop » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:30 am

Ziarre wrote:I think you underestimate just how much of a nightmare a pet with all spec abilities would be in PvP.
For other classes? about time XD

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#12 Unread post by Ziarre » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:53 am

You misunderstand. That nightmare would be for all of us, as it'd get us hit with the nerfbat so hard we'd be seeing Vanilla.
Acherontia wrote:

It's like daring someone to go insult a bunch of kindly old nuns. You'll wind up going back to your friends with a story about how they smiled at your insults and tried to give you cookies, or something.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#13 Unread post by Tahlian » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:19 am

I agree with Ziarre. I do NOT want to return to the days of post-BM nerf Wrath, when beast masters were referred to as excrement, when if you preferred that spec you were called - mentally deficient? - and were deemed to be "carried" by whatever raid was "dumb" enough to let you in.

Beast Master's pets are just fine *as they are.* Yours is a crazy idea, but it won't work. It looks like BM is going to be just fine in MoP as it is. In point of fact...we're a little bit too fine, as BM has surpassed both MM and SV in the realm of AoE damage, and now they're trying to figure out how to bring the other two specs up to BM's level without unintentionally further buffing BM in the process. I find it heartening that they aren't talking about nerfing BM in this, but buffing the other two specs - but I damned sure don't want to give them a reason to nerf us.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#14 Unread post by Worba » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:41 pm

pop wrote:
Ziarre wrote:...We do. That's what I just said. :|
strong =/= can cause damage

strong == can withstand damage.

Having said, which part of the game would make us op of this is implenmented? PVE? a hard hitting tenacity pet would be just the same as a ferocity pet if this is implemented. PVP? tenacity pet could easily die in pvp, and it's like BM are competitive in end game pvp anyway.
k if you want pets who can withstand more damage we have something to talk about... OP pets though, not so much.

Problem is that BM is already as close as you can get to being a tank spec... without being a tank spec.

So giving them that on top of existing power levels (DPS*, utilities, etc) would walk us into the balancing nightmare I mentioned.

The only possible way I could see of making the idea work would be, down the road sometime in a future xpac, split BM spec into "Beast Master" and "Beast Lord" trees along same general lines as they did for feral cats and bears, e.g. Beast Master would be more of a DPS spec e.g. not something you'd use for heavy solo tanking like we do now, and Beast Lord would be an actual (group) tank, but with correspondingly less hitting power. This would also serve the community as a whole by increasing tank population and thereby easing queues.


*Please no "BM DPS sucks!" tangents - for every person I've heard saying that, I hear someone else saying they're 1st or 2nd place on the meters.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#15 Unread post by pop » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:25 pm

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/

BM and MM are both LOWEST dps compare to OTHER DPS SPECS in current content.

Yes, BM and MM, 2 hunter specs are the lowest of em all.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#16 Unread post by Worba » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:35 pm

As currently rated; has- and will- change again.

All of which is beside the fact that increasing pet's dmg ABSORPTION ability will have zero impact on that.

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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#17 Unread post by Ziarre » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:34 pm

Someone asks for no 'dps sucks' tangents and then someone goes ahead and does it anyways. Beautiful!
Ghostcrawler wrote:I mentioned already the problem with comparing parses. They are reasonably good for comparing say rogues to mages, but terrible at comparing the various specs of rogues. The reason is because of the sampling bias, where all of the good rogues (and many of the not-so-good ones) swap specs to whatever spec the highest DPS parses use. There are some problems with this. Some of the highest DPS rotations are challenging to execute. Just because the best rogue in the world hit those numbers doesn't mean you ever can. It also doesn't mean that your DPS will go up by a certain percent just because you used his spec. Some fights just work out really well for some specs, because of adds or movement or burn phases or fight duration. Are these gimmicks that should be tossed out? At some point, you're tossing out every fight. Now to be fair, I'm not saying that Subtlety is secretly the highest DPS fight on Ultraxion and nobody knows about it. However, the delta between Sub and Combat is probably smaller than most people think. The sample size for Sub is much smaller and presumably its numbers are diluted by a lot of uninformed or lesser geared or skilled players or other people just messing around.
Replace Sub with BM, and Combat with MM/Surv, and there you go. Back to discussing things without 'BM dps sucks' tangents aye?
Acherontia wrote:

It's like daring someone to go insult a bunch of kindly old nuns. You'll wind up going back to your friends with a story about how they smiled at your insults and tried to give you cookies, or something.

Shaiel - 110 Night Elf Hunter
Sahkar - 110 Mag'har Orc Hunter
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Re: Crazy Idea that just might work

#18 Unread post by Worba » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:08 pm

/headdesk

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