Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Everything Hunter-related, except pets.
Forum rules
Treat others with respect. Report, don't respond. Read the complete forum rules.
User avatar
pop
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 1934
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:25 am

Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by pop » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:48 am

I just played my toon post patch. Besides the usual frustrating stuff like clunkiness and addons updates, I find that aspects cooldown are too high; 3 minutes.

IMHO they should be between 30-60 seconds cd with talents to further bringing them down, buffing its timer or amplifying the effects.

Anyone else agree or do you think my complaint is unwarranted? Anybody on beta can propose changes to our Aspects?

User avatar
Lupen202
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:19 am
Realm: Burning Blade, Frostwolf, Proudmoore
Gender: Female

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Lupen202 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:07 am

I feel the same way... Aspect of the cheetah is not on par at all with the sprints other classes get. I think at the most it should be a 1 min CD. But... I'd rather just have the original back. :/

Aspect of the turtle should either be on a 1 min CD as well or get a 2nd charge imo. Otherwise, it just can't compare to deterrence.
Last edited by Lupen202 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Image
Neiara - 120 BE hunter - Burning Blade (US)

| My Mount Collection |
| Flight Rising |


User avatar
Lisaara
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 17419
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:11 pm
Realm: Moon Guard
Gender: Genderfluid
Location: US
Contact:

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Lisaara » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:10 am

Aspect of the Cheetah is useless compared to Dash and Sprint. ;-;

Image
LisaaraPokefarm
Sig Credits: Lisaara, Ashaine


User avatar
Wain
The Insane
The Insane
Posts: 12269
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:54 am
Gender: Male

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Wain » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:16 am

They had to rip powers out to differentiate the specs, rather than the harder work they would have had to do to make positive changes, which they had neither time nor staff to handle. In a way it's like making three islands more distinct with simply digging away all their shorelines.

The other reason they had to rip out some powers is so they can give them back to us in a gimped form in the artifact. So there are artifact traits that lower the CD on Cheetah. Not back to anything usable but at least a bit. In this way, it's like digging up the island's sand and selling part of it back to the inhabitants while telling them it's a new product.
Shaman avatar by Spiritbinder.

User avatar
SpiritBinder
Mount Master
Mount Master
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:45 pm
Realm: Aman'Thul
Location: Australia

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:07 am

If they were going for differentiation they should have kept the old version, it was so unique compared to any other classes speed boost. And it's weird because all 3 specs still have Cheetah too, it's not like they were using it to define a spec. The problem was that all aspects pretty much became cooldown abilities, and they wanted to push this "New Aspects" theme so hard and Cheetah was the odd one out.

They fucked cheetah, they fucked it so hard that they made it the worst speed boost/bonus in the game that I can think of. Yes I'm sore about it, and I forever will be, as there was absolutely ZERO reason for them to gut it. We have had it since the game launched, it's never been that OP, It's just a steaming pile of "class designing"

If they wanted it to be a cooldown/on use ability, they could have made it like Burst of Speed or something, giving a 30/40% speed boost for 6 seconds for minimal focus. There, done, a cooldown/on use cheetah, not that hard. :roll:

This is just one of quite a few things that just prove they have no idea. I find the lack of thought dropped into our hunters this expansion disgusting and I'm so uninterested in playing wow in the 1st time since vanilla. :(

T A N N O NT H E S P I R I T B I N D E R

­
­
­

User avatar
Kalliope
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 14062
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:40 am
Realm: Dethecus
Location: Thedas
Contact:

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Kalliope » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:10 am

Between a bunch of hunter cooldowns going up and the human racial being nerfed into the ground (it's no longer a trinket, just a stun break - and it shares a 30s cd with the PvP trinket effect, which itself has a 3m cd instead of 2m), I'm dealing with way more adjustments than I had anticipated.

Image
Kalliope's Pantheon of Pets
YouTube Edition
Thanks to Serenith for the avatar and signature!


User avatar
Rhyela
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 6857
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:13 pm
Realm: US - Ysera
Gender: Female playing males and females
Location: My chair

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Rhyela » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:49 pm

I have nothing useful to add, and I apologize for that, but I just wanted to say that the more I read about all these changes, the more I feel my heart sink. I really don't understand why they've done some of the things they've done. It really does feel like they've made these drastic changes just for the sake of changing things, but they made it worse by doing so. :cry:

Image

Signature and avatar created by Serenith!

Slickrock wrote:Given their current trend, we'll probably get a spirit toucan that farts loops.

Xota
Master Hunter
Master Hunter
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:08 pm
Realm: Ner'zhul (US)

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Xota » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:42 pm

I know I'm in the minority on this, but good riddance to old aspect of the cheetah/pack. If it were removed completely, I wouldn't mind. Too many times some other hunter would leave pack on, even when being told in whispers, raid chat, and raid warnings to remove it. Sometimes because they were trolls, sometimes because they were stoned off their gourd or otherwise completely oblivious. That's why you can't have nice things.

Use disengage with posthaste for a sprint. It just takes a little practice to spin and jump at the right times.

User avatar
SpiritBinder
Mount Master
Mount Master
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:45 pm
Realm: Aman'Thul
Location: Australia

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:33 pm

So because someone annoyed you with Aspect of the Pack, you're saying good riddance to Aspect of the Cheetah, in fact your cool with it being removed.... Oh and you're blaming stoners as to "So thats why we can't have nice things (ie our speed bonus)"

Then you follow up with instead we should be happy and just use disengage with posthaste for a sprint... Serious?

So your saying we have to use our escape mechanism, if we want to have a speed boost, oh and you'd have to spec into it as well if you want it. That's some seriously freaking terrible game designing. So next we are going to have to use our Aspect of the Turtle to boost our DPS, and we should just rid of DPS cooldowns?

Sorry, but none of that makes sense.

T A N N O NT H E S P I R I T B I N D E R

­
­
­

User avatar
Vephriel
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 16075
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:07 pm
Realm: Wyrmrest Accord US
Gender: Female
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Vephriel » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:10 pm

I don't really mind Pack being gone so much as Cheetah itself. :( I used it all the time (not to mention Camouflage) to quickly speed through old raids and instances. It's just...ugh. I'm so disappointed.

User avatar
Lupen202
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:19 am
Realm: Burning Blade, Frostwolf, Proudmoore
Gender: Female

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Lupen202 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:14 pm

Xota wrote:I know I'm in the minority on this, but good riddance to old aspect of the cheetah/pack. If it were removed completely, I wouldn't mind. Too many times some other hunter would leave pack on, even when being told in whispers, raid chat, and raid warnings to remove it. Sometimes because they were trolls, sometimes because they were stoned off their gourd or otherwise completely oblivious. That's why you can't have nice things.

Use disengage with posthaste for a sprint. It just takes a little practice to spin and jump at the right times.
So... why not just remove Aspect of the Pack but leave in Aspect of the Cheetah?? If you keep dazing yourself then that's your own problem; at least you aren't affecting everyone else.

Or better yet, leave both in but remove the stupid daze mechanic completely. Make the old glyph default for both spells. Problem solved, no more idiots slowing down the entire group.

Either would be 100x better than punishing everyone because of the few.

Image
Neiara - 120 BE hunter - Burning Blade (US)

| My Mount Collection |
| Flight Rising |


User avatar
Rikaku
Master Hunter
Master Hunter
Posts: 1356
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:50 am
Gender: Female

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Rikaku » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:19 pm

I hate the new Cheetah, a ton. I want my old Cheetah back. And I have to agree with Spiritbinder a bit on part of their assessment.

It's absolutely not fair to remove an ability just because of a 'few trolls'. Yeah, I have dealt with the troll-hunters using Pack to annoy people. I've dealt with them as the tank, healer and dps of the groups over my history in WoW. But there was already a method for dealing with those people. If a Hunter left on Pack, I would simply tell them politely to turn it off (hey maybe they forgot or didn't know if they were new). If they didn't after a few minutes, then I would say it one more time before telling them they'd be removed. And if that didn't succeed, vote to kick.

But to remove our ability because of a few trolls? I kind of can't agree with that :/

The same could literally be said about Growl. Should Growl be removed from all Hunter pets because trolls/bad hunters leave Growl on?

Because if my Aspect of Cheetah was murdered due to trolling/bad Hunters, then I want Blizzard to murder "Leap of Faith" because I am sick of troll Priests. And I don't mean that as a mean jab, but I seriously hate that ability. I don't know how many times I got Life-gripped into the pile of rocks in Highmaul near that algae boss from priests purposely getting people stuck in the pit of doom hidden in there.

I guess overall I just feel like if trolling/bad players was the legitimate reason for Blizzard to do this, then there were much better ways to solve this problem. Remove pack only and keep cheetah as someone else pointed out. Or keep cheetah the way it was in pre-7.0 and make Aspect of the Pack a "sprint buff" for the raid like Stampeding Roar that wears off fairly quickly. There were a lot of ways to fix this other than murdering cheetah.


User avatar
SpiritBinder
Mount Master
Mount Master
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:45 pm
Realm: Aman'Thul
Location: Australia

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:48 pm

Vephriel wrote:I don't really mind Pack being gone so much as Cheetah itself. :( I used it all the time (not to mention Camouflage) to quickly speed through old raids and instances. It's just...ugh. I'm so disappointed.
I'm not that fussy about Pack either, as Xota mentioned it really sucked when people would forget it and I would simply not use it just in case that was me. I would feel terrible if I ever did/had.

My main issue with the removing things that defined our class for over a decade, that had no negative impact and with no reason what so ever (Like AotC), and then giving it back in some layman's version. It's really just not ok, and dam cruddy game design.

They then extend this classy behavior by now dangling "Oh look, shiny Legendarys" in front of us, that simply give us back what they took away?!?

The Apex Predator's Claw
  • Equip: Your pet gains the passive abilities of all pet specializations and deals 10% increased damage.


Oh look it's our Adaption they stripped away....

Roar of the Seven Lions
  • Equip: Bestial Wrath reduces the Focus cost of all your abilities by 20%.
Oh look it's our focus reduction they ripped out of our Bestial Wrath, I wondered where that went...

Roots of Shaladrassil
  • Equip: Standing still causes you to send deep roots into the ground, healing you for 4% of your maximum health every 3 sec.
Funny that, I wondered why I was constantly dying, there's my old Spirit Bond...

It all leaves a very bitter taste in ones mouth.

T A N N O NT H E S P I R I T B I N D E R

­
­
­

Xota
Master Hunter
Master Hunter
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:08 pm
Realm: Ner'zhul (US)

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Xota » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:53 pm

SpiritBinder wrote:So because someone annoyed you with Aspect of the Pack, you're saying good riddance to Aspect of the Cheetah, in fact your cool with it being removed.... Oh and you're blaming stoners as to "So thats why we can't have nice things (ie our speed bonus)"

Then you follow up with instead we should be happy and just use disengage with posthaste for a sprint... Serious?

So your saying we have to use our escape mechanism, if we want to have a speed boost, oh and you'd have to spec into it as well if you want it. That's some seriously freaking terrible game designing. So next we are going to have to use our Aspect of the Turtle to boost our DPS, and we should just rid of DPS cooldowns?

Sorry, but none of that makes sense.
That's why I said I would be in the minority opinion on this. Aspect of the Pack has been horrible for over a decade. It's not just "someone" or a "couple" of idiots. It's been a constant nuisance to the point of causing wipes and losing BGs. I'm glad it's gone. And if old aspect of the cheetah goes with it, I think it's still better than having aspect of the pack daze everyone*. It's not just stoners, but other oblivious players and trolls too. Whether from malice or incompetence, daze aura has been a problem for a long long time. You can't always vk. If you want to talk about poor game design, then start there. There still is an aspect of the cheetah, it's just a sprint now instead of a constant run-speed bonus. And MM gets windrunning anyways.

And yes, posthaste makes our escape mechanism have bonus functionality. Aspect of the Turtle also has bonus functionality from artifact talents (for MM and BM). It heals. So you can use it to block incoming damage, or to heal yourself up, or both at the same time. And yes, sometimes players may be put in the situation to ask themselves, "Should I use this for function A, or save it for function B?" I think that's interesting game design.

So there's two sprints a hunter can have. If you'd rather not have posthaste as one, then don't take it. It does have higher uptime than feral's dash and even rogue's sprint, but you don't have to take it in order to have a speed boost. I didn't say you had to be happy about it, just that you could use it. It may not appeal to you, but it doesn't make no sense.

Growl is a self-solving problem. Just let the pet tank the boss until it dies. Growl doesn't ruin BG or Ashran. Leap of Faith can be blocked with a Neural Silencer. Neural Silencer doesn't block daze aura.

*If I'd have been designing it, then I'd have left both in, but aspect of the pack would deal 10% max health damage to the hunter each time a party member was struck. But I still think removing pack is a vast improvement over daze aura, even if a nerf to cheetah goes with it.

User avatar
SpiritBinder
Mount Master
Mount Master
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:45 pm
Realm: Aman'Thul
Location: Australia

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:03 pm

Xota wrote: There still is an aspect of the cheetah, it's just a sprint now instead of a constant run-speed bonus. And MM gets windrunning anyways.
Like I was saying..
SpiritBinder wrote:They then extend this classy behavior by now dangling "Oh look, shiny Legendarys" in front of us, that simply give us back what they took away?!?
####
It all leaves a very bitter taste in ones mouth.
Oh look, lets rip out cheetah and put it on a legendary... even better lets put it on an artifact so only one spec can benefit from it. So classy, so original.

I have no idea who we have for our class design teams these days, but they must on the same team thats been writing Melania Trump's speeches...

Anyways, it's not like it's going to change now and I should just roll over on it. It's just heart wrenching when you love something so much and it then just gets ripped apart in front of you, and there is literally nothing you can to do stop or reason with it.

T A N N O NT H E S P I R I T B I N D E R

­
­
­

User avatar
Kalliope
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 14062
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:40 am
Realm: Dethecus
Location: Thedas
Contact:

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Kalliope » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:11 am

The saddest part of all of this is that it's not just hunters that have been run into the ground and changed beyond recognition.

My dwarf disc priest? No longer has fear ward. She's had fear ward since BC. I barely even recognize the kit anymore. I've always played discipline priests and now I'm seriously considering going holy just because I've lost so many of the abilities that I've relied upon.

I think it's a mistake to incorporate the artifacts so completely into the new specs, just like I think it's a mistake to hide vendors with removed skills around the game. Why should we have to work/pay for abilities we already had?

(And don't even get me started on the removal of Northrend flying. That actually got me killed when I wormholed to Sholazar Basin in survival spec.)

Image
Kalliope's Pantheon of Pets
YouTube Edition
Thanks to Serenith for the avatar and signature!


User avatar
Rikaku
Master Hunter
Master Hunter
Posts: 1356
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:50 am
Gender: Female

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Rikaku » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:54 am

Kalliope wrote: (And don't even get me started on the removal of Northrend flying. That actually got me killed when I wormholed to Sholazar Basin in survival spec.)

Last I checked, that was a bug. According to the hotfix list of issues, that one is being fixed. So you should be getting that back soon :D
July 20
Bug Fixes
Zones
(Work in progress) Cold Weather Flying should be granted to characters who previously obtained it.
From: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/4180 ... s-july-21/


User avatar
Kalliope
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 14062
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:40 am
Realm: Dethecus
Location: Thedas
Contact:

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Kalliope » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:43 am

Ah good. Least I didn't go buy it on all my chars, just the couple who had been in the area. >_< Thanks for the heads up.

Image
Kalliope's Pantheon of Pets
YouTube Edition
Thanks to Serenith for the avatar and signature!


User avatar
Helsinki
Expert Hunter
Expert Hunter
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:22 am
Realm: Dalaran - US

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Helsinki » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:45 am

I'm super happy with the new pets, but for once it may not be enough. I've been maining a hunter since I stopped raiding at the end of wrath. Now I'm considering demon hunter (they are crazy fun) or just not playing at all. Time will tell.
Sarynotsorry - Dalaran
Helgada - Nesingwary

User avatar
Rhyela
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 6857
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:13 pm
Realm: US - Ysera
Gender: Female playing males and females
Location: My chair

Re: Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

Unread post by Rhyela » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:02 am

SB, I seriously want to just give you a huge hug. :(

Image

Signature and avatar created by Serenith!

Slickrock wrote:Given their current trend, we'll probably get a spirit toucan that farts loops.

Post Reply