War of the Thorns annoyances

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Castile
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War of the Thorns annoyances

#1 Unread post by Castile » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:48 am

So I did the new quest yesterday on my Nelf Druid. It's fine so far BUT one thing that irked me to no end is that I was fighting Tauren in Ashenvale who where helping Sylvannas who ultimately burns the world tree...WHY?! It goes against everything they are lore wise to even want to do this. They revere mother earth and really what beef (excuse the pun) do they have with the nightelves? For the most part they get along from memory.

I know I know...they are Horde BUT surely they can't be a willing participant in this?! I haven't done the horde side of the quest so if there is something I'm missing feel free to fill me in cause as it stand it makes no sense. The other races sure...but not Tauren.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#2 Unread post by Bowno » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:56 am

From what I've heard.. We didnt MEAN to burn the tree. We wanted to capture it.
$30 says the Naga did it.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#3 Unread post by Flyra » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:00 am

Sylvanas does not want to burn the world tree she wants to capture and occupy it. I think it's going to either be an accident or the Nelfs doing it - preventing people from occupying their tree.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#4 Unread post by Castile » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:19 am

Flyra wrote:Sylvanas does not want to burn the world tree she wants to capture and occupy it. I think it's going to either be an accident or the Nelfs doing it - preventing people from occupying their tree.
I very much doubt the NELFs would burn their own tree...but why are the Tauren there? It still makes little sense to me. Going to war against the NELF which they share a lot of culture with isn't a logical thing to me unless they do something terrible to them first.

Does the Horde questline say that she doesn't want to burn it out of curiosity?

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#5 Unread post by Krysteena » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:43 am

I've already done the quest chain on Krys, but I'll go through with another hunter and get some screenshots for you for what Sylvanas actually says about taking the World Tree. She wishes to deal a big blow to the Alliance, and particularly the Night Elves, by killing Malfurion and removing their presence from Kalimdor. From what I'm aware, she doesn't intend to burn the World Tree. We'll have to wait until later to confirm this, but I believe that something goes wrong when taking the Tree, which causes it to catch fire. One could imagine that Azerite is rather volatile and, in enough large enough quantities, could be catastrophic if it explodes, as a possible explanation.

As for the Tauren moving in, the most logical thing I can think of is that Baine is not in any position to turn around and deny his people marching on the World Tree. Sylvanas doesn't exactly take no for an answer. I am with you that it really doesn't make sense for the Tauren to turn on the Night Elves and move to attack their home considering how closely linked the two are, but-- I'm really hoping there's a decent explanation to this from Blizzard in the upcoming quests.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#6 Unread post by Thwip » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:14 am

Yes. In the Horde quest chain, Sylvanas -specifically states- that she wants to -capture- and -occupy-. Not burn everything to the ground. Something major happens here. What it is, however, we still don't know as Blizzard hid the final cutscene from us on the PTR before this went Live.

I am not sure how to make a spoiler tag, but seeing as this is out already, I'm not sure it needs one?

From the WoWhead quest text:
The Warchief Commands
Find Saurfang in the Northern Barrens.
Description
Silithus. That has been the name of the game... or rather, that is what I wanted the Alliance to believe. Make no mistake, Azerite is just as powerful as it is rumored to be but I have bigger plans in mind. High Overlord Saurfang is leading an army towards Silithus. By now, he should be in the Northern Barrens. I want you to intercept him and notify him that the preparations are complete. Preparations for what, you ask? Why, we are going to capture the World Tree.
And if you speak to her when she has a dialogue popup after accepting the quest afterwards:
Sylvanas: "You would ask a question of me, <Character Name>?"

You: "Warchief, may I ask why we want to capture Teldrassil?"

Sylvanas: "Time is not a luxury we possess, but I respect your desire to know more. <Sylvanas points to Silithus on the map>. THIS has forever altered the balance of power in Azeroth. Deposits of Azerite are being located across the world, <Character Name>. Though we do not yet understand its full potential, it is clear that this substance has vast destructive capability. What will war look like in twenty years? In a hundred? How can the Horde hope to defend its borders if the Alliance controls the flow of Azerite?"

You: "It is uncertain, Warchief."

Sylvanas: "What IS certain is that the Alliance will use Darnassus as a safe harbor for funneling Azerite into the Eastern Kingdoms. Anduin Wrynn will build powerful new weapons, and sooner or later he will turn them upon our homelands. First he will strike at the Undercity and Silvermoon, then his gaze will fall upon Kalimdor. For the sake of the Horde's future, we must be the first to act. By occupying Darnassus, we will control the flow of Azerite and ensure it cannot be used against us. The Alliance will dare not attack its own city for fear of harming civilians. With a single stroke, we will guarantee generations of peace."

You: "The night elves will fight us at every step."

Sylvanas: "The kaldorei will defy our occupation... unless we break their spirits. We must inflict a blow that will show them what is at stake. They need to lose something... someone... in whom they have absolute trust and faith. A symbol of hope. <The Dark Lady narrows her eyes.> Malfurion Stormrage must die."

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#7 Unread post by Valnaaros » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:15 am

The NEs would never burn Teldrassil under any circumstances. As for the Tauren, it doesn't make sense for them to be alright with any of this. Baine is not happy with Sylvanas' rule and decisions, which he expresses both in the most recent novel and in Zandalar. Unfortunately, Blizz has written him as being too spineless atm and isn't taking any action against her. And even if he feels like his arm is being twisted, the rest of the Tauren people should have a major moral dilemma with wanton destruction and slaughter of nature and beings of it.

All in all, there isn't a reason for any of the Horde to be going into this war. Even if the events at Teldrassil are a complete accident, everything up to that point was intentional. The destruction of nature, the slaughter of innocents, the hostile takeover, etc. The Alliance has every reason to go to war with the Horde at this point. Stormheim hasn't been brought up at all by anyone in the Horde (and that couldn't be done by Sylvanas without her having to explain what her intentions in Stormheim were), nor the killing of Goblin miners in Silithus (Azeroth herself has expressed a strong dislike for Goblins).

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#8 Unread post by cowmuflage » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:14 am

Castile wrote:
Flyra wrote:Sylvanas does not want to burn the world tree she wants to capture and occupy it. I think it's going to either be an accident or the Nelfs doing it - preventing people from occupying their tree.
I very much doubt the NELFs would burn their own tree...but why are the Tauren there? It still makes little sense to me. Going to war against the NELF which they share a lot of culture with isn't a logical thing to me unless they do something terrible to them first.

Does the Horde questline say that she doesn't want to burn it out of curiosity?
I did not see a single mention of burning it down. It's worth more not burnt to the horde then burnt.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#9 Unread post by Sukurachi » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:30 am

Valnaaros wrote:The NEs would never burn Teldrassil under any circumstances.
Maybe not, but I certainly wouldn't put it past Genn Greymane.
There are any number of other people on the Alliance side who could go to extremes simply to cause problems for the Horde.

I'm praying to the Sunwell that Blizzard does NOT go the "let's make the leader of the Horde the bad guy" route again. I want it to be some Alliance scum who thinks like a radical and is blinded by hate and fury.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#10 Unread post by GormanGhaste » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:27 am

The history of wow is littered with flimsy excuses for hostilities. I didn't expect anything better from this expansion.
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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#11 Unread post by Shelassa » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:31 am

There is a good article on Reddit as to why Sylvanas does what we see in the War of Thorns.

As for the Tauren, what have the Night Elves even done for them? Did they help them when the Centaurs threatened to wipe them out? Or, maybe, when the Quillboar were attacking due to drought after the Cataclysm? No? Only united forces against world-threatening enemies? Thought so. Similarities in faith only go so far and last so long. Look at Elves and Humans - their faith is also similar and it didn't stop them from spatting at one another even before the Horde has been formed.

My Tauren (druid, by the way) personally has been attacked by the Alliance during their ambush and assassination attempt in Stormheim, right in the middle of her quest to get the Aegis of Aggramar to save the world. The Forsaken forces sent to help her in the quest had to be redirected to be fighting Gilneans instead.
She has also been in Silithus and seen dead Goblin Miners and SI7 spies (the same SI7, by the way, that got infiltrated by the demons and lead united armies of the factions into the trap on the Broken Shore, causing massive losses and deaths of Varian Wrynn and Warchief Vol'jinn).
Now the Warchief says there are SI7 spies sneaking around Orgrimmar - and, as the Night Elven fleet moves out to Silithus according to the false information Sylvanas planted, I have no reason to not trust her that a war is coming and decisive action can stop it before it brews fully.

Yes, the loss of Malfurion Stormrage would have been a great blow to the whole world, and I think my character would not have been able to kill him in Saurfang's shoes, but war is war. And Malfurion's not on the same side this time.

Edit: There is also a big thread with various Horde druids explaining their PoV on the official forum!

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#12 Unread post by Wain » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:28 am

Sukurachi wrote:
Valnaaros wrote:The NEs would never burn Teldrassil under any circumstances.
Maybe not, but I certainly wouldn't put it past Genn Greymane.
From someone who plays both Alliance and Horde all the time, I can say that this is insanely unlikely. Except, so is a tauren druid agreeing to kill Malfurion, or helping the forsaken spread plague across the landscape and wipe out all life, human, plant and animal. So, really, who knows any more? :P
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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#13 Unread post by Tomb » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:36 am

that irked me to no end is that I was fighting Tauren in Ashenvale who where helping Sylvannas who ultimately burns the world tree..
You don't know that.

The tree can burn down for a multitude of reasons. For all we know, Malfurion steps on a spike and stumbles back with his hair on fire and accidentally sets the tree on fire. The Tauren are helping her capture the tree.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#14 Unread post by Valnaaros » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:10 am

The issue I see with the reddit article is that it isn't acknowledging what has been shown in BtS (Before the Storm) and later in BfA. Anduin, in the novel, and to an extent the rest of the Alliance leadership, don't really want to go to war with the Horde. Anduin even states that Azeroth needs to be healed, but that Sylvanas shouldn't get any Azerite since she would use it to wage war.

Sylvanas, and the other hand, wants to wage war against the Alliance and doesn't care about peace or saving Azeroth. When Magni comes to her and requests the Horde's help, she lies and tells him that she will send aid. She also assumes that Anduin will utilize Azerite to attack the Horde, even though nothing suggests that he will.

We also know that both Sylvanas and Nathanos view humanity as a burden and undeath as a blessing. In the novel, one of Sylvanas' goals is to sack Stormwind so that she can reanimate all of the humans there. Nathanos remarks in BfA that all humans will eventually serve Sylvanas.

In regards to the Tauren, their Druids would still have a huge problem with this. All Tauren druids are members of the Cenarion Circle. The Cenarion Circle is an organization deidcated to the preservation of nature. You can have individuals that can make excuses for what they are doing, but the majority of Tauren druids would be against burning forests, killing beings of Nature (furbolgs, dryads, wisps, etc), and the burning of Teldrassil (which would be considered akin to the destruction of a sacred location).

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#15 Unread post by Valnaaros » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:13 am

Wain wrote:
Sukurachi wrote:
Valnaaros wrote:The NEs would never burn Teldrassil under any circumstances.
Maybe not, but I certainly wouldn't put it past Genn Greymane.
From someone who plays both Alliance and Horde all the time, I can say that this is insanely unlikely. Except, so is a tauren druid agreeing to kill Malfurion, or helping the forsaken spread plague across the landscape and wipe out all life, human, plant and animal. So, really, who knows any more? :P
Agreed. In BtS, Genn's hatred against the Horde (and the Forsaken) and greatly diminished. I do not think that he would attempt to burn the tree. But like you said, Wain, there are a lot of things that are happening that shouldn't be :lol:

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#16 Unread post by Teigan » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:30 pm

Sylvanas literally want Horde players to make the forest cry. That's an actual quest. *shrug* It has got to suck to be a Horde druid right about now.

I agree that I can't see worgen/Genn burning the tree. It's their home too, remember.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#17 Unread post by Valnaaros » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:04 pm

That's a good point, Teigan. Further, Genn's wife Mia lives in Darnassus. I highly doubt that he would start burning the tree knowing that she is there.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#18 Unread post by cowmuflage » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:42 pm

Probs the Old gods. They are the real bad guys in this expack and it would be a perfect thing to do to sew chaos.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#19 Unread post by Aleu » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:41 pm

Honestly, my guess is Azshara. It'd be a plan for her not only to help escalate a war between both factions, but at the same time get back to the Night Elves by burning their tree. I'm pretty sure Sylvanas did not have the intention of burning it. It's worth far more intact then it would be destroyed.

...If not Azshara then probably old gods. They love chaotic things.

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Re: War of the Thorns annoyances

#20 Unread post by Iowawolf » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:40 pm

Nomi did it I have inside sources saying so. :mrgreen:
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