[IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

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Vornesoul
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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by Vornesoul » Mon May 18, 2020 3:46 am

Hati is a unique exception due to artifacts and I'm sure they could be limited to BM only. I see no reason why the other Spirit Beasts couldn't be used by Survival or Marksman though.

I'm sure many Undead and Blood Elf hunters would be rather miffed if we limited the Undead looks to BM hunters only. The "themed" pets like Fire and Undead should just be for transmog coordination and not effect mechanics IMHO.

Maybe some challenge tames could be spec limited but I'd rather just let all hunters be able to use the pets they love.

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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by Rikaku » Mon May 18, 2020 5:02 pm

Vornesoul wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:46 am
Hati is a unique exception due to artifacts and I'm sure they could be limited to BM only. I see no reason why the other Spirit Beasts couldn't be used by Survival or Marksman though.

I'm sure many Undead and Blood Elf hunters would be rather miffed if we limited the Undead looks to BM hunters only. The "themed" pets like Fire and Undead should just be for transmog coordination and not effect mechanics IMHO.

Maybe some challenge tames could be spec limited but I'd rather just let all hunters be able to use the pets they love.
This is basically what I meant, but more concise and better worded than my post. So yeah exactly, my comment was mostly just something at the Hati portion. :D


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Equeon
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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by Equeon » Mon May 18, 2020 8:54 pm

Myzou wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:18 pm
What about a BM hunter makes them able to befriend a beast that other hunters can't? Survival Hunters fight *side-by-side* with their pets. If anything, that proves they have a stronger bond than BM hunters
Taken alone, I'm not convinced at all. Consider someone who painstakingly trained their terrier to compete in intense dog competitions, pageants, and races. How easily would that person's skills translate to calming an angry shark trapped in a net, stopping a giant boa constrictor from crushing its prey, or nursing a diseased bat back to health?

The skills wouldn't be useless. But they would likely be insufficient alone. Beast Masters know the intricacies of exotic creatures. A falconer doesn't have to have as close a bond with her hawk as someone with a puppy they adopted. But the falcon is far more difficult to train than something that's basically evolutionarily inclined to view humans favorably. Beast Masters aren't only "I have the best bond with my buddies!" They also display knowledge and know-how in the form of mastery of all beasts.


However, as Wain rightfully pointed out, over the years the exotic label has mattered less and less. Why are Clefthooves, which are basically large herd mammals, "exotic", whereas spiders made of elemental fire, or shimmering arcane serpents, are not? It doesn't make much sense and I believe Beast Masters need to get new abilities for all pets rather than take away looks that have been accessible by other specs for years.

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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by PrimalTazza » Wed May 20, 2020 3:28 am

I'm all for exotic pets being done away with. BM hunters should just get some other skill that makes their pets better, as many others here have stated. Something, perhaps, like making spirit bond an ability available to all their pets? Or the talent that improves family abilities becoming baseline.

On the topic of merging families, I'm actually conflicted. With pets being locked into specs and having a few generic "template" abilities to choose from, merging some pet specs might ironically give me less choice. For example, I like taking large bird pets with me. I have Ji-kun as a carrion bird and a dread roc from Highmountain as a bird of prey. I have two large birds with two different purposes. If they made pet specs selectable and maybe abilities for pets could also be selected with a mini talent tree or pet training-type interface, merging would be far more agreeable to me.

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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by Xota » Thu May 21, 2020 5:16 pm

I was thinking something like subclass for mechanicals. I'd divide up Silithids, with the Colossals (and potentially kunchog, goliaths) going to Beetle, sandreavers going to "worm", and ants and ravagers going to ravager. Silithid could be their BM subclass, with 'speedy' being the BM ability.

Maybe it appeals to others, but dodge doesn't seem like an interesting pet ability to me (unless it worked on spells too). And two versions of shield wall are boring. It feels like they were just trying to pad the number of defensive abilities. A more interesting defensive ability would be a pet able to cleanse some DoTs off of itself. An ability I miss a lot is Devilsaur's grow. It wouldn't even need to grow on other people's screens, I just want to see Harryhausen towering above everything again.

Base abilities still aren't 100% normalized (crab's snare being channeled is the one I remember) and should be. I think there should still be some BM only pets, I don't go for the zoo-keeper builds, I like having one mighty pet, and it'd be nice if there were pets that would broadcast that visually. Not as many BM only pets now, but some. Clefthooves are a perfect example of an 'exotic' that anyone could have.

Unrelated to combat, when you use GoTo with your pet, it should sit, if it has a sit animation. My raven's been flapping for years and could use a rest. Some pets I'd like to toggle their flight/grounded for running (and combat) too.
Last edited by Xota on Fri May 22, 2020 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by PorrasouxRex » Thu May 21, 2020 11:22 pm

I guess just from my perspective Exotics make a nice, lore reason as to why they are Exotic. I agree that over the new additions they make less sense (personally I would have had direhorns, hydras, and feathermanes as exotic) and just taming anything you want with no restrictions takes away from that. Undead-like creatures like the bone eagle is still technically a physical being, I would think it would take more training to tame something hardly clinging to this world like a spirit. Silithids have a complicated hivemind, and to somehow gain enough knowledge or adapt to be able to command that also takes skill.

Though I suppose to make everyone happy you could just make all Exotics become a Skill based family. Have a quest or a drop from a rare/raid boss that ties into what the family is all about. Devilsaurs/Pterradoxes/Direhorns from the Zandalari NPCs, Corehounds from Molten core, and so on. That way you could experience some lore that ties to what it means to be able to command this specific family, and command it with any spec.
"The arrogance of man is thinking that nature is in our control, and not the other way around."

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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by Inay » Fri May 22, 2020 11:51 pm

Though I suppose to make everyone happy you could just make all Exotics become a Skill based family. Have a quest or a drop from a rare/raid boss that ties into what the family is all about. Devilsaurs/Pterradoxes/Direhorns from the Zandalari NPCs, Corehounds from Molten core, and so on. That way you could experience some lore that ties to what it means to be able to command this specific family, and command it with any spec.
I'd really like that, giving a quest for every family currently in Exotic with a bit of backstory, or even just looting an item like currently for direhorns and the crawg beasts. Maybe having to fight some master trainer of those beasts (a Salamander NPC in the Firelands for the corehounds? A ghost for the spirit beasts?) until they have to talk/give lesson item if we don't want it to give too much work to the Dev to implement that. (Also I really want to keep my Loque'nahak with me no matter the spec...)

Right, so currently are exotic: (I'll throw a few ideas on how it could happens)
Chimaeras (Rylak & chimaeras)
Zone: Ashenvale (Alliance) or Frostfire Ridge (Horde)
How: Quest with a Night elf/Mag'har orc giving you instructions on how to bond with rylaks/chimaeras? Or maybe just a night elf, who recognize your deeds and care for animals even if you're Horde.
Details:
Alliance- A chimera rider of the Black Moon army is taking care of her companion as you visit the clearing. She tells you about the cry a mother chimaera makes for her hatchlings and how it get the attention even of an adult, and that they love [x kind of meat] and if you brought them some as a delicacy you can earn some measure of friendship. But never make that whistle, they dislike that.

Clefthoods (clefthoods & rhinos)
Zone: Outland Nagrand
How: Quest with a Mag'har orc telling you about the shared history of orcs and clefthoods, the cycle of nature and the hunt, etc.
Details: An old Mag'har is waiting at a campfire, and tell you all about the hunts they add in his youth, and the majesty of the clefthoods herds that roamed Nagrand, and how it's not like it was. If you listen to his entire story, he tells you about that young hunter he knew in his youth who adopted a baby clefthood, and taught it how to guard the village, and that surely the experience could be repeated. He goes into details of what that hunter did to let the little clefthood be used to people, and by the end you have the competence (based on your previous experience as a hunter) to try as well.

Corehounds (corehounds and cerberus dogs)
Zone: Firelands (not raid)
How: A Salamander houndmaster rare, who drop an item [Notes of the Houndmaster] that teach the competence.

Devilsaurs
Zone: Nazmir
How: A renegade Zandalari beastcaller rare (so it's doable by both Horde and Alliance), who drop an item [Prayer of Rezan] that teach the competence.

Krolusks
Zone: Voldun
How: A Sethrak rare, mounted on a krolusk, who drop an item [Krolusk egg] and maybe a small quest of observing the baby krolusk to teach the competence?

Pterordaxes (Zandalar and Pandaria)
Zone: Isle of Giants
How: Adding them to the Dinomancer tome? Adding an item [Pakurai prayer]?

Stone hounds
Zone: Throne of Thunder (raid)
How: Iron Qon drops [Hound book] (It's a bad name, I'll think about it more)

Shale spiders
Zone: Deepholm
How: Quest with one Earth Elemental in Therazane throne, teaching you about the little pests that are the shale creature but that they are also parts of the cycle in Deepholm and can be useful.
Details: The Earth giant wants you to get rid of some Shale worms next to the throne, and lend you a little flock of shale spiders to do it, so they'll hunt the worms with you. As he have to explain how to direct the shale spiders, he also teach you how to tame your own the next time you'll visit Deepholm.

Silithids
Zone: Silithus
How: Quest with a friendly-ish Silithid, leading you to bond somewhat with part of the hive mind. Or teaching the hunter how to reach the hivemind.
Details: The Chronicler escaped partly the bonds of the hivemind, all to its purpose of chronicling everything that happens to the Quiraji Empire, and miraculously not dead after the recent fall of the Black Empire. It charges you with bringing it fragments from the obelisks in Uldum, and in trade teach you how to read some of the runes, and some of those allow to reach the Silithid hivemind yourself.

Spirit beasts
Zone: Crystalsong Forest
How: An elven ghost gives you a quest to teach you how to open your mind to the Veil between this world and the Shadowlands/Emerald Dream, and how to bond with the creatures not quite from this world.
Details: The quest includes acquiring Spectral Dust from other ghosts, and sacred bones from the vrykul shamans of the nearby regions, and it concludes on a ritual, giving you a vision of the friendly ghost's own companion and their blessing to bond with other spectres.

Water striders
(I never realised they were exotic, to be honest)
Zone: Zangarmash?
How: Friendly Sporeggar people gives a quest on how to tame the striders of the zone.
Details: The quest includes getting some specific spores from plants of the zone, and the sporeggars teach you about how those ones specifically calm down a strider, and those other ones will make it aggressive, and these will help you bond for they are not quite social creatures.

Worms
Zone: I don't know, I've no idea why they are exotics and the wasps are not. I'll think about it more.
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DannyGreen
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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by DannyGreen » Sun May 24, 2020 10:09 pm

Inay wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:51 pm

Worms
Zone: I don't know, I've no idea why they are exotics and the wasps are not. I'll think about it more.
Zone: Highmountain.
Quest giver: Worm rancher Drogbar
The Drogbar once raised these creatures as siege beasts. Though due to the actions of a Tugar Bloodtotem the action has been outlawed and many of there kin has been purged from the face of highmountain. Show them the true value of these noble creatures.

You get given a small Worm, that you do a series of quests with, defending Highmountain. And eventually winning a small ring of blood style scenario with different beast masters who want there species of animals to be the next Drogbar war beasts.

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Inay
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Re: [IDEAS] Pet Family Rework for Shadowlands

Unread post by Inay » Mon May 25, 2020 12:59 am

Yes, excellent!
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