Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Discuss Burning Crusade Classic, and the development of our Burning Crusade Classic site.
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Wain
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Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:01 am

Here I want to compile a list of key info about BCC pets:

An important page from old Petopia of that era is here. It presents tables of all the families, diets, stat modifiers and skills.


New Families

There are six new pet families (compared to original Classic), bringing the total to 23:
  • Dragonhawk (General): Eats Fish, Raw Fish, Fruit, Meat, and Raw Meat. Learnable skills: Bite, Dive, Fire Breath.
  • Nether Ray (Defense): Eats Meat and Raw Meat. Learnable skills: Bite, Dive.
  • Ravager (Offense): Eats Meat and Raw Meat. Learnable skills: Bite, Dash, Gore.
  • Serpent (General): Eats Fish, Raw Fish, Meat, and Raw Meat. Learnable skills: Bite, Poison Spit.
  • Sporebat (General): Eats Bread, Cheese, Fruit, and Fungus. Learnable skills: None!
  • Warp Stalker (Defense): Eats Fish, Raw Fish, and Fruit. Learnable skills: Bite, Claw, Warp.
Also note that Birds of Prey are still called Owls at this point. They didn't change their name until WotLK.


New Pets

I haven't added the new pets yet, but I have their data and am working on getting them in shape for addition to the database soon.

Besides all the Outland stuff, BC brought a new tameable "ghost wolf" to Dustwallow Marsh: the Grimtotem Spirit Guide. Blizzard originally said they'd allow it to remain as a pet, but eventually changed their minds and hunters could no longer tame it. It'll be interesting to see what they do this time.


Removed Pets
At least 9 beasts were removed during the Dustwallow revamp that came with Patch 2.3. They'll be missing from the very start of BC Classic: A bunch of surviving NPCs in the same zone changed levels at the same time. Those changes also seem to be active from the start of BC Classic.



Pet Skills & Stats

In BC there were still no official family "specs", as Petopia of that era uses the same same general family roles as it did for Vanilla: Offense, Defense, and "Well-Rounded" (which I've been referring to as "General"). These are based on their stat modifiers for damage, armor and health.



Pet Skills

- New skills (added after Classic): Fire Breath, Gore, Poison Spit, Warp , Avoidance, and Cobra Reflexes. Avoidance and Cobra Reflexes were added in 2.1 but in BC Classic they exist at release.

- Skills were still learnable / teachable from certain beasts you could tame.

- I have a list of all the skills that new pets can teach, which will go up when I add the new pets.

Old pets that gained new skills they could teach (we'll need to check these changes on the test realm to confirm): Old pets that lost teachable skills they knew in Classic (we'll need to check these changes on the test realm to confirm):
  • Drywallow Snapper (4343) lost Claw 5 sometime during one of the later BC patches (but gained the Bite skill it was always meant to have)
  • Greater Kraul Bat (4539) seems to have lost Cower 3 for some reason
  • Prairie Wolf Alpha (2960) seems to have lost Furious Howl 1. Not sure why this would be! I can find no actual reference to it, it just changes in the databases
Old pets whose teachable skills seem to have changed ranks in BC (we'll need to check these changes on the test realm to confirm):
  • Barnabus (2753)'s Bite skill was lowered from rank 6 to rank 5
  • Longtooth Howler (5287)'s Furious Howl skill was raised from rank 2 to rank 3

Attack speed

Attack speed was standardised to 2.0 in all pets by the time BC was launched, so I shouldn’t need to record it for individual pets like I did in Original Classic.


"Caster" Pets

Caster pets were still a thing in BC, but since this was fixed in original Classic I expect it will similarly not be an issue in BCC.


Diet Additions

BC was when "Raw Fish" and "Raw Meat" were added to the possible diet options of pet families.


Pet Look Changes (compared to original Classic)

I think crabs lost their mohawks in BC. The images I can find on Wowhead seem to confirm this.


Links to some Mania's Arcania posts that are useful as references:

Other stuff to research

- stable size and stable management
- known quirks of the era
- anything else of importance

I haven't looked at any of this yet, but will fill in the details above as I do.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary

Unread post by Wain » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:51 am

OK, the pages will be assembled here: https://www.wow-petopia.com/classic_bc/

Not much has been done so far. It's based on a copy of the original Classic pages, so for now it'll look very similar, and some of the guides will still refer to original Classic.

The families, abilities and new pet looks are up. The new pets are next.
The guides are just the Classic guides, I haven't touched those yet, except for the abilities one.
The logo and colours all need to be changed.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary

Unread post by Wain » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:58 am

OK, the new looks are up for BCC. Pets are next. Those will take some time to format.

I wonder if they'd consider making pets tameable that weren't so back in BC days (but are now). I'm not talking entirely different models here, just individual NPCs that are the same model as tameable ones, but weren't flagged tameable and for no particular reason.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary

Unread post by Vephriel » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:08 pm

Wain wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:58 am
OK, the new looks are up for BCC. Pets are next. Those will take some time to format.

I wonder if they'd consider making pets tameable that weren't so back in BC days (but are now). I'm not talking entirely different models here, just individual NPCs that are the same model as tameable ones, but weren't flagged tameable and for no particular reason.
cries in Gezzarak :cry:

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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary

Unread post by Wain » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:09 am

I'm getting there with the data wrangling, but there are always more complications. These aren't serious stumbling blocks, but I wanted to grumble about them anyway ;) I found a version of Petopia in the Wayback Machine that lists all the BC pets , with their levels, locations and which abilities they know when you tame them, but it doesn't indicate which of them have notes/additional info and it would be painful to check every one of ~550 individual pet pages to see if there are notes attached. During the WotLK Beta the site changed to include a tag if the pet has notes on its page, which is really handy, but at that point the site stopped listing whether the pet knew any abilities (because abilities went away in LK!). This early Wrath version also includes Wrath pets, but I can easily filter those out. So one version has one subset of info I need, and another version has another subset. Both versions require me to manually copy family page code then erase all the extra crap and get it into a usable spreadsheet format. Then I can compare them, check the pet names against our modern database to get their NPC IDs, check which ones may or may not have been removed sometime during BC (so they may or may not appear at the start, depending on how they handle patch progression). Then it should be good to go.

So far I have one set of pet data formatted, but I haven't yet got NPC IDs or notes for the BC stuff. But it's a decent start.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary

Unread post by Wain » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:58 am

I've updated the OP with details of changes to the teachable abilities of old pets. Many of these changes were due to Gore (which was a new ability in BC) being given to a bunch of older boars. Some of the other changes also made sense, but others seem to be for no reason. The problem is that after all this time I can't find many clear references to these changes occurring, like there are no comments from people saying "I just noticed this change". Instead, the data just change in the databases, which could always be an error, but where possible (which is only sometimes) I've tried to corroborate the changes with Thottbot / Allakhazam data from the same era.

I've also added a list of pets that were deleted (from Dustwallow Marsh) in 2.3. We'll have to see if these changes are implemented at the start of BC Classic.

The new BC pets are still on their way. I'm currently manually confirming NPC IDs for the all the ones I couldn't find automatically, which adds up to still quite a few.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:59 pm

All of the BC era pets, and their inherent abilities, have now been added.

A large number of missing original Classic pets have also been added to both Classic and BC. But all but a couple of those are untameable, and so they aren’t very important. Also, most were added in 1.11, so I guess the Petopia data that I based the original Classic on mustn’t have included 1.11 :p

To do:
- Correct the abilities for a number of original Classic-era pets that had their inherent abilities change in BC. I still need to check that some of these are real changes and not just database omissions.

- Correct the levels and/or elite status for a bunch of original Classic-era pets whose levels changed in BC. Many of these changed in 2.3 so it’s hard to know if they’ll have already changed in the first BC Classic patch or not. :/

- Same with Dustwallow NPCs that were deleted with a zone revamp in 2.3. Will those changes be implemented at the start or not?

- Rewrite guides from Classic

- Petopia site logo for BC. Not sure what to do about it at this stage.

- Need to decide on a colour scheme. I guess BC fel green will play a role.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:27 am

I've opened up the test version of the site:
https://www.wow-petopia.com/classic_bc/

Image


The logo is temporary and something I just cobbled together. I've commissioned a better one :) The colour scheme hasn't been set yet (that's the original Classic one).

Hopefully all the info is accurate but I'm still uncertain if 2.1 and 2.3 changes will exist from the start in BC Classic.

The guides should be correct, but if they aren't then it's possible the game itself has not yet been set right. Or maybe I got something wrong.

Please let me know of any issues :)
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by BradBlondebeard » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:55 am

Great to see the new site up. I posted it in the hunter classic discord.

Here are a few issues I found:

1. The wowhead links are to the classic version, not tbc classic.

2. If you click on one of the pet skills, it takes you to petopia classic instead of petopia tbc.

3. The storm crow carrion bird appearance does not have a wowhead link. I believe it should be this one: https://tbc.wowhead.com/npc=21042/dire-raven

4. Nethermine ravagers are currently not in the beta. I assume they will be added once netherwing quests are put in. How do you think you will handle pets if they are phased in?

Will the notes for pets and pet abilities return? I am not sure how much value they have but some seemed interesting.

Thanks for updating the site.

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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:57 am

That's fantastic! Thanks for all those corrections, I'll get to them tomorrow. I knew I would miss some links :P

Update: I've already done most of the fixes. I'll check the rest tomorrow :)

As for NPCs that won't appear until later phases I'll probably continue to include them on the site but set their status to "Upcoming".
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by BradBlondebeard » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:50 pm

Found a few more things when looking at the pet search page:

1. The Teaches Ability / Rank dropdown does not include TBC skills.

2. The Can Learn Ability dropdown does not include TBC skills.

3. The Diet dropdown does not include raw fish or raw meat.

4. Once you use the search function, the link for general/offensive/defensive role points to shadowlands petopia (this also happens in the classic petopia)

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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:31 am

Ok:

- The search things should all be fixed.
- For the "can learn" abilities list, it no longer lists ones that are available to all families, as there's no point searching for that.
- The "role" column no longer uses links, as there isn't a Classic role page to link to. I should create one.
- The missing dire raven was bcause I entered its appearance name wrong. In the process I found a few more creatures (serpents and crabs) that had wrong appearance names too. All fixed.

Thanks for catching all those! :)
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:19 am

I've now confirmed that Avoidance and Cobra Reflexes can be learned from the trainer at the start of BC Classic (they were originally only added in 2.1). This isn't surprising but still needed to be checked.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:34 am

The Dustwallow changes also seem to exist from the start of BC Classic. I haven't yet checked the level range of every last NPC that was modified in Patch 2.3, but so far it all looks like all level changes (and NPC deletions) will exist from the start.
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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by BradBlondebeard » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:07 am

I found a few articles on the archived TBC petopia that I believe would be helpful as guides. The first one would be applicable to both TBC and Classic, the second and third are only relevant to TBC.

1. http://web.archive.org/web/200808100420 ... oyalty.php

2. http://web.archive.org/web/200808080019 ... caling.php

3. http://web.archive.org/web/200808090110 ... threat.php

I am not 100% sure if the scaling is accurate in the beta right now.

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Re: Burning Crusade Classic Summary and Website Updates

Unread post by Wain » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:22 am

Ok thanks! I'll check them out :)

I'm still busy confirming pet level and ability changes between original Classic and BC. It's taking a while but so far everything checks out.
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