The War Within Beta - Beasts Thread

[Valnaaros]

And if it is removed, there is no point really on getting angry about it.

I 100% disagree with this statement, and you do not get to tell people they shouldn't be angry. People are allowed to be angry. Why are some unintended tames ok, and others not? I get why the "fire" pet was removed, but most of the unintended tames do not offer a DPS increase.

I have a grub on one of my hunters. I have the slime on another hunter. Why do I get to keep these, but not the baby salamanther, the worm, or the baby Vorquin? People got to keep their baby mammoths and their murkfur pup. The lack of consistency is what's making _me_ angry.

Of course people are allowed to be angry, but ultimately it isn't going to change anything, that's what I'm saying. I don't entirely understand Blizz's reasoning as to why some things are allowed to be kept and others not, but their reasoning isn't going to be changed because some hunters get angry about it.

[Gyflie]

And if it is removed, there is no point really on getting angry about it.

I 100% disagree with this statement, and you do not get to tell people they shouldn't be angry. People are allowed to be angry. Why are some unintended tames ok, and others not? I get why the "fire" pet was removed, but most of the unintended tames do not offer a DPS increase.

I have a grub on one of my hunters. I have the slime on another hunter. Why do I get to keep these, but not the baby salamanther, the worm, or the baby Vorquin? People got to keep their baby mammoths and their murkfur pup. The lack of consistency is what's making _me_ angry.

Of course people are allowed to be angry, but ultimately it isn't going to change anything, that's what I'm saying. I don't entirely understand Blizz's reasoning as to why some things are allowed to be kept and others not, but their reasoning isn't going to be changed because some hunters get angry about it.

Arguing the semantics of the "point" of being angry isn't helping. People are allowed to be upset. The anger has a point--game dev inconsistency and lack of transparency, but even if it didn't that shouldn't matter as long as it isn't hurting anyone. Feelings are meant to be felt. Being angry has more of a chance in resulting in a change than being static and having no response, however infinitesimal that may be.

[Shade]

Dangit-have to chime in and agree on being upset about the worm and salamanders. Lost the voaquin to this way too.

Most upsetting and frustrating part is if they are going to remove or replace unintended tames, they should do it for EVERY unintended tame-any baby pet, the slime, the werewolf, the spirit totem wolf, etc.

Its unfair that some are kept and some are removed and its all so willy nilly. If they do not want us having unintended tames, okay, fine with that, but enforce that and remove all of the unintended tames. Its aggravating that they leave some be and take away others.

Gonna go release the ones I tamed then, as they are not, in their current form, anything I'd ever use.

[WerebearGuy]

Note: I suggest we have the glitch pet discussion broken off and moved to Pet Discussions, seeing as how it's inevitable that we'll bring up older pets that were removed. I'll still dump my two cents on the matter, but this is the last time I'll post about em until the next unintended tame removal. This is the War Within Beasts Thread, after all.

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It's definitely consistency we need to know about. Years have passed, and it's still not obvious what's allowed and what isn't. We've had exploits and normal tames alike with varying degrees of success, but nothing makes sense.

Code: Select all

Clever Use of Game Mechanics Pets:
- Ancient Grimtotem Spirit Guide: Grandfathered.
- Garwal: Model swapped. Note: Went through numerous and torturous nerfs until it finally settled as a regular white worg.
- Buff Pets: Grandfathered. Note: very fragile, can lose their buffs easily.
- Cloud Serpents: Grandfathered. Note: required a bugged Maldraxxus item that worked everywhere. Said item was rapidly fixed.
- Tsulong (gold): Grandfathered. Note: see above.

Exploit Pets:
- Stunted Direhorn: Grandfathered. Note: Was gigantic, but is now super tiny due to using a Polymorph/Hex model.
- Dreamway Prowler Pup: Removed.
- Nah'qi: Locked behind mythic-only raid mount ownership. Note: Initially removed from those who tamed it with an exploit, but people could have it restored by a GM through tickets. Nice.

Regular Tameable Mob Pets:
- Spirit of Atha: Became tameable normally several expansions later.
- Spirit of Ha-Kalan: Grandfathered.
- Spirit of Koosu: Grandfathered.
- Goroshi Grub: Grandfathered.
- Amber Parasite: Grandfathered.
- Shadowlands fire elemental: Grandfathered. Note: I forgot its name, but it was in the Maw.
- Tundra Vorquin Foal: Model swapped. Note: Was safe for an entire patch cycle (very long time).
- Frostytrunk Calf: Grandfathered.
- Snowy Mammoth Calf: Grandfathered. 
- Murkfur Pup: Grandfathered.
- Highland Hatchling: Model swapped.
- Chasm Maker: Model swapped.

I may be missing some, but a good chunk of our unintended tames got to stay. Garwal got blasted because Worgen would eventually become a playable race, as well as Blizzard not wanting players to have anything resembling slavery (reminder that warlocks literally enslave demons). Dreamway Prowler Pup required one person to RaF summon a warlock to a Druid-only location, and then said warlock and two others would summon players into the zone to tame a puppy. Blizzard's stance was that baby pets weren't intended, yet they let us keep the Stunted Direhorn (a direct contradiction) and use baby animals as battle pets (which consists of many torturous ways of harming them). This contradiction further expanded when the mammoth calves were left alone after being made untameable.

Tundra Vorquin Foal was available from the very start of Dragonflight, but required Lesser Dragon taming. It was the first of many new victims as the foal was an oddity; it was left tameable for months. It almost felt like Blizzard loosened up, but then the great stag purge happened, causing every tamed foal to turn into its adult version. Some players were rightfully furious at this because it was entirely out of nowhere, as well as the fact that our stables were tampered with for seemingly no reason. Then, there's the curious case of the Murkfur Pup, where a normal tameable mob was randomly given a baby model entirely out of nowhere. This was also a grandfathered pet, as the few players who got it were allowed to keep it while the wild mob was unflagged AND made friendly. Just like the backlash from other pets, this sparked a heated here on Petopia. The recent issue with Highland Hatchling and Chasm Maker only added more fuel to the fire. Both were only tameable during the early access period of The War Within, were unflagged and seemingly grandfathered, and then randomly changed in the middle of the day on September 4th. Needless to say, nobody liked that.

It's confusing, it's tiresome, and it only makes people unhappy when this is done. Some clarity from Blizzard would go a hell of a long way at this point, but the little contact with the developers we have is already a very thin link. The developers seem to care more about what random streamers and their mindless lemming viewers parrot rather than listen to a bunch of people who just like collecting things.

[Mottik]

The red eel and the sea slug remain unchanged. Slug is still mini pet sized.

I've also noticed something called "Forgotten Conduit" in the tunnel from the surface to the caves, near the cave side. A titan portal looking object in the ground. It causes massive lag (sometimes a loading screen) as soon as it's in view, then it vanishes. WoWhead has it listed but as location unknown and no other info. I get a cogwheel on mouse over but I can't get close enough to click it. Does anyone else see it or know what it's for? I kinda wonder if it's related to Aradan.

[Dialga]

And if it is removed, there is no point really on getting angry about it.

I 100% disagree with this statement, and you do not get to tell people they shouldn't be angry. People are allowed to be angry. Why are some unintended tames ok, and others not? I get why the "fire" pet was removed, but most of the unintended tames do not offer a DPS increase.

I have a grub on one of my hunters. I have the slime on another hunter. Why do I get to keep these, but not the baby salamanther, the worm, or the baby Vorquin? People got to keep their baby mammoths and their murkfur pup. The lack of consistency is what's making _me_ angry.

Of course people are allowed to be angry, but ultimately it isn't going to change anything, that's what I'm saying. I don't entirely understand Blizz's reasoning as to why some things are allowed to be kept and others not, but their reasoning isn't going to be changed because some hunters get angry about it.

Expressing anger should not be a forbidden thing as long as no personal attacks are involved and it's just someone expressing how they're feeling, even if it's wildly negative. It's alarming that so many forums are dutifully scrubbed of people venting when they're entitled to their feelings and expressing how they've been hurt. I think Blizzard should see how hunters feel about it, because how else would they know?

EDIT: To clarify, I am only arguing against the stance of 'there is no point' when, I do think the player should be allowed to express negative feedback and I think people trying to tell others to not get angry just spins them up more.

[Aroim]

I also think it's okay to say I miss him, I miss my worm too.
It's also okay to say... I'm angry now. But not like many people do.
To say: If I'm not allowed to have something, no one else is allowed to have it is childish behavior or selfish, you can see it however you want.
Or to insult someone for it, to blame them or to generally say that everything is crap now that the pet has been removed. It's somehow unfair to those who are working to ensure that we get new beasts, unfair to the beasts that exist.

[Valnaaros]

I was intending to just let this conversation go wherever it ended up going, but seeing as people keep going after me I'm going to say this: I'm not forbidding anyone from getting angry or expressing that anger. Do I think that getting angry and going on X or the WoW forums is going to do anything? No, I don't. Pets have been removed many times before, and people have gotten far more upset about it and made it far more known (such as went the foal was removed), and nothing was ever done, let alone explained.

I agree with you, Aroim, in that it is a selfish thing that because particular pets have been removed from some, to call for others to lose their pets, too. And Blizz has done a TON for Hunters - far more than any other class, by far. Every single xpac we get tons of new things (let alone patches), and the devs don't have to do that. Two NPCs that were not intended to be tamable were removed, out of the nearly 1,000 that are tamable for us this xpac, and likely several hundred more before the xpac is over.

That's all I'm going to say about this now. This thread isn't meant for this discussion, and Wain will likely step in soon to end this discussion, since some have appeared to ignore his past warnings regarding this.

[Wain]

I don't mind discussion here now, because the beta is over and this entire section of the forum will soon be moved to the archives. Keep it civil, do not attack anyone.

It is a bit tiring when the same arguments appear every time an unintended pet is made untameable or is removed from stables because there never is - and never will be - agreement, and people on various sides just shout the same things at each other over and over. But as long as it doesn't continue for too long I'm happy for people to vent (note: we have also a Rant thread for proper venting when needed!)

I understand why Blizzard makes unintended pets untameable, though unless a pet is some kind of exploit or completely absurd (like those elementals, which I had fun with too, and then released when they were bricked) I wish they would stay in the stables of those who got them. I don't know the reasons why some are and some aren't, but I wonder if people are trying to find patterns where they don't exist: it could be entirely down to the opinion of whichever class or area dev is handling each one and there may not be hard and fast guidelines.

I agree consistency in these decisions would be good, but I think the lack of it is due to the fact that hunter pets aren't a centrally regulated part of the game and it's down to individuals whether they add them, and how they correct mistakes. Without being defamatory, I'll simply say that in all the years I've run Petopia I've never encountered any evidence that the class team was involved in adding pets.

I understand why people are sad when they lose them, though I'm personally very stoic about it these days - if you tame something knowing it could well be removed then you have to steel yourself for that.

If you want Blizzard to go back and remove all past unintended tames from stables, well... my guess is they're not going to do that (both because from an optics perspective it would look very heavy-handed and also the fact they're all overworked). But you're perfectly within your rights to visit the official forums and list what you think should be removed and why.

[Karasan]

And if it is removed, there is no point really on getting angry about it.

Hunter precedent for nearly 20 years was that if something shouldn't be tamed (outside of something like Garwal that was about to be a playable race or untargetable fires that were glitched beyond just visual) the hunters that hunted it down got to keep it. The foals were a huge blindside since they were kept so long and it upset the hunter community. Now this? This is just saying to hunters that we are lower class than we used to be and that any newer players can never enjoy some of the interesting things that veteran players did. I say we get mad and we let Blizz know that this isn't some little thing. Player feedback is one of the few things that can actually impact any of this right? So lets give them plenty of disgruntled feedback. Squeaky wheel get's the grease after all.

[WerebearGuy]

I know worms and lizards are the hot topic, but something else got unflagged that we didn't notice until now; three Loa Toads. This is according to Wowhead's database, so it's very likely true, but Colossal Spadefoot, Whiptongue, and Yaz'za the Devourer are currently unflagged for some reason. A friend and I are running islands to check on them, but the island RNG is a major deterrent. On NA realms, Havenswood is back, so all frogs are able to spawn there. Can anyone attempt runs to help find and verify this issue ingame? Because that'd suck for some folks who like to keep unique names since Yaz'za kept its name when tamed.

[Valnaaros]

I know worms and lizards are the hot topic, but something else got unflagged that we didn't notice until now; three Loa Toads. This is according to Wowhead's database, so it's very likely true, but Colossal Spadefoot, Whiptongue, and Yaz'za the Devourer are currently unflagged for some reason. A friend and I are running islands to check on them, but the island RNG is a major deterrent. On NA realms, Havenswood is back, so all frogs are able to spawn there. Can anyone attempt runs to help find and verify this issue ingame? Because that'd suck for some folks who like to keep unique names since Yaz'za kept its name when tamed.

I tamed Yaz'za about a week ago on Live. They're fine. Just an error with Wowhead, I think.

[WerebearGuy]

Well that's just it. Wowhead tends to have errors and missing information (such as how EVERY loa toad has been confirmed to spawn on Havenswood, despite Wowhead saying otherwise), and it's good to know what's right or wrong from actual proof from players rather than relying on the database alone. As for the flag, they were tameable last week. This happened after the unjustified worm and lizard purge. Collateral damage (probably), and whatnot!

[Wain]

I wouldn't panic too much about the toads, unless one of us manages to confirm the loss of tameability.

The reason I'm not too worried yet is that Island Expeditions tames have always been reported erratically on Wowhead (and have sometimes been erratic in game as well, as there are times they've been tameable in one difficulty and not others). There's something weird about difficulty levels and tame flags that confuses the data.

I'm also not too worried because (unlike the salamanther and worm) these were deliberately made tameable, so it's less likely (though not impossible) that would be reversed.

Still, thanks for checking as I'd really like to know!

[DannyGreen]

I personally feel like allot of the frustration comes from feeling like we're never heard.
When there was that amazing council post made, Blizz just ignored it.
When we complain about major pet issues, we're just ignored.
I am Eu, Blizz never looks at the eu forums. There's never any real communication for what really the vibe is, just. You get what you're given.

[Kööna]

I know worms and lizards are the hot topic, but something else got unflagged that we didn't notice until now; three Loa Toads. This is according to Wowhead's database, so it's very likely true, but Colossal Spadefoot, Whiptongue, and Yaz'za the Devourer are currently unflagged for some reason. A friend and I are running islands to check on them, but the island RNG is a major deterrent. On NA realms, Havenswood is back, so all frogs are able to spawn there. Can anyone attempt runs to help find and verify this issue ingame? Because that'd suck for some folks who like to keep unique names since Yaz'za kept its name when tamed.

You scared me for a second. My Loa* toads are still doing just fine in my stables. Phew!

[PorrasouxRex]

I will say Blizzard promoting a culture of "having something someone else won't ever have" in things like retired mounts, or retired pets doesn't help this situation.

Devs for blizzard have sadly came and went, and sure certain visions for the community has changed, but encouraging people to run the hamster wheel to chase the unobtainable to show off in the major cities has not changed at all.

[DannyGreen]

At least the trading post/twitch makes it a little easier.

Since we're here I have an idea how to allow old pets and discontinued models.
Why not put them in the darkmoon faire?
Pay a bunch of darkmoon tickets to have the animal handler look the other way as you tame one.

[Maizou]

Some of the removals I understand.

Like the Worgen (they were planning to make them tameable, and thus completely sentient/sapient). The Slime (not an actual animal, though I dont know why they were allowed to keep them). Etc.

But others I just don't get. The ghost crocodile? We have multiple undead pets now. Why is it STILL untameable? Baby Pets? They've acknowledged hunters want cute pets like 3 expansions ago but still do not give us many options. We can pet battle with baby pets and force them to fight to the death, but taming is out of the question? I don't get it. The grubs that I have that were made untameable? Why are grubs untameable but caterpillars and other worms are tameable?

Etc. It's not even about them needing to be consistent for me.

It's about the changes needing to make sense. I'd 100% understand no baby pets if pet battles didn't exist. But they do. And there was literally a pet battle WQ in Dragonflight where we sent baby pets to fight a FULL GROWN DRAGON.

I'd understand removing the tameability of grubs if other similar worms weren't tameable, but there are others that are.

Like I said, I understand ones like the Worgen and Slime, and even the ghost crocodile prior to Shadowlands.

But the decisions just don't make sense and it's frustrating. It's not consistency, it's simply the decisions they make not making sense.

[PorrasouxRex]

Some of the removals I understand.

Like the Worgen (they were planning to make them tameable, and thus completely sentient/sapient). The Slime (not an actual animal, though I dont know why they were allowed to keep them). Etc.

But others I just don't get. The ghost crocodile? We have multiple undead pets now. Why is it STILL untameable? Baby Pets? They've acknowledged hunters want cute pets like 3 expansions ago but still do not give us many options. We can pet battle with baby pets and force them to fight to the death, but taming is out of the question? I don't get it. The grubs that I have that were made untameable? Why are grubs untameable but caterpillars and other worms are tameable?

Etc. It's not even about them needing to be consistent for me.

It's about the changes needing to make sense. I'd 100% understand no baby pets if pet battles didn't exist. But they do. And there was literally a pet battle WQ in Dragonflight where we sent baby pets to fight a FULL GROWN DRAGON.

I'd understand removing the tameability of grubs if other similar worms weren't tameable, but there are others that are.

Like I said, I understand ones like the Worgen and Slime, and even the ghost crocodile prior to Shadowlands.

But the decisions just don't make sense and it's frustrating. It's not consistency, it's simply the decisions they make not making sense.

And even on the ghost croc point we've had a ghostly saber cat since vanilla lol.