More BM artifact variants

[SetsunaChan]

I wouldn't go blaming druids for our bm weapon being "lacking". I'd blame it on more on lack of direction/lack of good lore reasoning of the weapon. And I'm pretty sure different art team people work on different items so I'm going to say the druid people most likely did not work on the hunter stuff.

And that's what I was hoping that our bm weapon would be like the voice of quilen gun atleast like that. But I do hope what it lacks in looks it better and I mean it really better have a unique shooting animation like how the sonic pulse gun shoots waves or how the crypst fiend slayer has a whole big animation to fire an arrow. Heck even the nesingwary 5000 had a unique little puff a smoke while firing.

So if our gun isn't going to look cool it better be actually firing lightning or else the whole "harness the essence of a storm" in it is well not true.

[Shade]

I wouldn't go blaming druids for our bm weapon being "lacking". I'd blame it on more on lack of direction/lack of good lore reasoning of the weapon. And I'm pretty sure different art team people work on different items so I'm going to say the druid people most likely did not work on the hunter stuff.

^That

But, I am pretty hopeful when looking at the new druid cat forms, like this:



LOOK AT THOSE MARKINGS!

I am really, really impressed with these 'spotted tiger' type of markings on this model, hoping that means that some of the new tameable cats on the Runesaber model might get some pretty markings a touch like these. I know they won't do an exact copy, but I could see them reusing a bit of it to give us some cats that are not just one solid color.

[pop]

I wouldn't go blaming druids for our bm weapon being "lacking". I'd blame it on more on lack of direction/lack of good lore reasoning of the weapon. And I'm pretty sure different art team people work on different items so I'm going to say the druid people most likely did not work on the hunter stuff.

And that's what I was hoping that our bm weapon would be like the voice of quilen gun atleast like that. But I do hope what it lacks in looks it better and I mean it really better have a unique shooting animation like how the sonic pulse gun shoots waves or how the crypst fiend slayer has a whole big animation to fire an arrow. Heck even the nesingwary 5000 had a unique little puff a smoke while firing.

So if our gun isn't going to look cool it better be actually firing lightning or else the whole "harness the essence of a storm" in it is well not true.

Our artifact lore has absolutely nothing to do with BM, like 0 at all, just that it's a gun, which a weapon our class could use. I wish it was more interesting than that, maybe the first ever gun invented, or a Mantid made gun that is used by kunchong handlers, heck even Nesingwarry's gun would feel more epicer. I think your idea that an artifact gun originated from the Mogu is right on the money; The mogus are technologically advanced, used guns AND they use quillens which is an exotic pet; all of these scream or at least sound BEASTMASTER to me!

[Malackai]

Tbh I think they should have gone with Bows for MM and Crossbows For BM
and then added additional Gun skins for both MM and BM as unlockables (could have been pvp related or something).

Then people could have chosen to go either bow or gun.

Don't want to sound like some cranky old hag but the more the exp get revealed the more I am getting irritated that not a single spec of the hunter I loved for nearly 10 years is actually appealing to me anymore. because the rest looks actually interesting enough to try it out.

I know I can still mog that atrocious gun to a bow. But the more I think about it the more I think whats the point? Artifacts in legion are going to be what garrisons where to WoD they are pretty much the central point of this exspac.

[Lupen202]

Yeah I don't see why they've been ignoring crossbows so much recently. They're pretty neat and while I still prefer bows, I quite like crossbows. And they give me more of a primal feel which fits BM, much better than a highly advanced, lightning-shooting gun...

But I know they wont just trash all of the work they've done on the gun. Maybe they could at least give us one crossbow look... I'd be happy.

Still peeved about the lore more than anything though.

[Sukurachi]

I'm bothered by the very concept of the artifact weapons. Period.

It locks whatever spec you're playing into a very specific weapon.

For the last few expansions, for example, Wands have been almost entirely pointless - staves almost always had far better stats. And yet WoD had some of the most beautiful wand designs I'd seen in a while.

With Legion, they've reduced the chance of using a wand even more, making my Shadow Priest use a dagger, for example (an extremely un-priestly weapon, if you ask me).

Now my hunter will be stuck with a gun, and the colour/effects of my gun will rely on what activities I partake in - like PvP or raiding. Which means I MAY (read: "will almost definitely") end up stuck with a weapon look that I absolutely hate, since I don't raid, I don't PvP, I don't do battlegrounds and arenas.

All these "cool looks" for the artifact weapons are pointless if each specific look is locked to a single activity. For example, if the only way to get a blue gun is to do PvP, and the only way to get a red one is through raiding.

and besides, a gun and BM just doesn't fit, no matter how many dwarves and gnomes cheer and scream "finally!" Elves are not gun people. Tauren are not gun people. And Nesingwary is not a hunter. He's an animal killer.

[pop]

The least they could do is to design 2 more designs for BM artifact guns; dual wield crossbows and dual wield guns. I was hopping the boar dagger artifact gun could be made smaller into dual wield model variants.

[Kalhoun]

I guess the one with the scope is kind of neat. I want to like the short one with the dagger only because of the rotating gear on it... but why is it so small? Just feeling meh over all of the designs, really. I will most likely transmog over it and use Kalhoun's "IC" rifle, which kind of ruins a lot of the excitement over the whole artifact weapon thing for me. Bleh. Oh well.

[PrimalTazza]

a gun and BM just doesn't fit, no matter how many dwarves and gnomes cheer and scream "finally!" Elves are not gun people. Tauren are not gun people. And Nesingwary is not a hunter. He's an animal killer.

I don't want to be the nit-picker, but don't tauren hunters start with guns? I know, if nothing else, they used to. One of the quests in the starting area revolves around retrieving stolen tauren rifles. There's an elven Farstrider outpost in Eversong with several guns set up on tripods and possibly even gun racks on the walls.

Blizzard's hunter lore seems to suggest that we are, indeed, perfectly willing (if not seeking) to hunt animal game. A lot of areas where hunter trainers are, there is some sort of taxidermy at play. Even the elves in Silvermoon have a stuffed bear and I think a plainstrider put up. Nesingwary seems to exemplify this aspect of being a hunter, he's the ultimate big game hunter, and he has a lot of qualities that point to him being a beast master.

While we are the heroes of the story, we are also warlocks, rogues, warriors, shadow priests and soon demon hunters, all of which have some sort of "evil" quality. If your warlock IC tries to be a nice guy, that's fine, it really is. But Blizzard is basing all these artifacts on the archetypes, and the archetype warlock is a soul-sucking, demon-summoning, dark-magic-slinging guy who's more than willing to kill you to get what he wants.

Tauren have this little bit of lore: "Though the noble tauren are peaceful in nature, the rites of the Great Hunt are venerated as the heart of their spiritual culture. Every tauren, warrior or otherwise, seeks identity both as a hunter and as a child of the Earth Mother. Having reached the age of maturity, you must test your skills in the wild and prove yourself in the Great Hunt."

I'm a little iffy on some of the lore myself, but it is what it is. The hunter class is not immediately a friend of animals, it is able to befriend/able them and use its animal companion to assist in its hunt of more dangerous prey. Nesingwary did this very thing in Sholazar.

I really, really hope they keep the weapon as-is. There very well could be several more models/colors we haven't seen yet, so just keep hoping you get something you enjoy. I keep seeing people immediately write it off as "dumb for BM" or "it doesn't fit my elf" or "it'll scare the animal." The lore is in a state of refurbishing and change anyway, some beast masters in game have used guns, not every hunter is an elf, and your pet dinosaur shouldn't be sent into battle against a demonic Legion if gunfire is going to scare it witless. It doesn't sound like we're using this thing to hunt anyway. We're using this lightning rifle to defeat the Legion, not to shoot today's meal.

[SetsunaChan]

I wouldn't go blaming druids for our bm weapon being "lacking". I'd blame it on more on lack of direction/lack of good lore reasoning of the weapon. And I'm pretty sure different art team people work on different items so I'm going to say the druid people most likely did not work on the hunter stuff.

And that's what I was hoping that our bm weapon would be like the voice of quilen gun atleast like that. But I do hope what it lacks in looks it better and I mean it really better have a unique shooting animation like how the sonic pulse gun shoots waves or how the crypst fiend slayer has a whole big animation to fire an arrow. Heck even the nesingwary 5000 had a unique little puff a smoke while firing.

So if our gun isn't going to look cool it better be actually firing lightning or else the whole "harness the essence of a storm" in it is well not true.

Our artifact lore has absolutely nothing to do with BM, like 0 at all, just that it's a gun, which a weapon our class could use. I wish it was more interesting than that, maybe the first ever gun invented, or a Mantid made gun that is used by kunchong handlers, heck even Nesingwarry's gun would feel more epicer. I think your idea that an artifact gun originated from the Mogu is right on the money; The mogus are technologically advanced, used guns AND they use quillens which is an exotic pet; all of these scream or at least sound BEASTMASTER to me!

That's what I was trying to say in my post you quoted.

It really seems that whom ever worked on the bm artifact, really wasn't given a good sense of lore for it or anything to really make it scream that this is some important thing tied to the history beast mastery. Let alone the fact the lore itself for the gun just seems slapped on. Heck most of the other lore weapons have more good Stories or reasoning. Outlaw rogue is cursed sabres owned by a notorious pirate, while the prot warriors is a scale from neltharion before he was deathwing.

If they really really wanted to stick to an ulduar/nordic theme for the gun thorim wasn't the best choice to me. Odyn "blizz's spelling" was the god of the wild hunt and had numerous animal companions partially wolves and ravens. "in Nordic lore" Or they could've used Skadi well she was the goddess of bow hunting but for some reason blizz made the character a guy on a proto drake, let alone a boss that we killed.

But sadly Blizz is already using Odyn for the warrior artifacts.

I'm hoping there is more models to the artifacts besides the few that have been datamind. I mean the marks bow has a Xbow variant, so why does the Bm weapon not have such a variant?

As for an idea of what the could've done... While sticking to the Ulduar theme.

Odyn based crossbow

Gungnir, Fenryr's Bane
Carried by the titan Odyn, this crossbow was meant to defeat the dreaded warg Fenryr. It was said to been able to lauch large lance like bolts with great force to pierce Fenryrs' hide. During Odyn's fight with Fenryr the weapon was lost in storm peaks. But it was rumored that Mimirion might've found the artifact to tinker with.

The motif of the crossbow probably be mix of wolf and raven bits to fit into the whole lore of Odyn. While the crossbows ammo would be a nod to Odyn's weapon of choice the lance known as Gungnir. And for added affect maybe something along the lines of the voice of the quinlin for the tinker bit of mim's doing.

[Castile]

a gun and BM just doesn't fit, no matter how many dwarves and gnomes cheer and scream "finally!" Elves are not gun people. Tauren are not gun people. And Nesingwary is not a hunter. He's an animal killer.

I don't want to be the nit-picker, but don't tauren hunters start with guns? I know, if nothing else, they used to. One of the quests in the starting area revolves around retrieving stolen tauren rifles.

Even though for some reason they now start with guns (not sure if they always did as I made my moo cow hunter in vanilla) I didn't think they fit either. And although I'm very much aware of "the rites of the hunt" I didn't see it as blasting through the plains more like stalking with a bow or crossbow which considering the more earthly nature of tauren is a better fit.

[Mousecandy]

the more I see of other artifacts, the more it feels like hunters in general other then SV, and especially BM got left behind, its like they went all happy with SV, and then got a little confused and gave MM the bow, and then realized there was still a spec left afterword....

the reasons I made a hunter. I like ranged dps, my preferred weapon is a bow, I adore having a pet at my side. Its now impossible for me to play my class for the reason I chose it, unless I transmog to a lesser item, and when the expansion is all about the artifacts it feels like were missing out on something great, and only getting the scraps

[Equeon]

I'm bothered by the very concept of the artifact weapons. Period.

It locks whatever spec you're playing into a very specific weapon.

For the last few expansions, for example, Wands have been almost entirely pointless - staves almost always had far better stats. And yet WoD had some of the most beautiful wand designs I'd seen in a while.

With Legion, they've reduced the chance of using a wand even more, making my Shadow Priest use a dagger, for example (an extremely un-priestly weapon, if you ask me).

I know that you're against the concept, but I don't see any other way that we could have "an artifact" without locking players into using that one type of weapon. That being said, I think having at least one bow/gun/crossbow, polearm/staff, and sword/mace variant for each of those types would be nice because of their similarity. As for the Shadow Priests, I personally couldn't think of a better tool for an borderline-insane, Old God-channeling cultist than a creepy sacrificial dagger with an eyeball on it.

Now my hunter will be stuck with a gun, and the colour/effects of my gun will rely on what activities I partake in - like PvP or raiding. Which means I MAY (read: "will almost definitely") end up stuck with a weapon look that I absolutely hate, since I don't raid, I don't PvP, I don't do battlegrounds and arenas.

All these "cool looks" for the artifact weapons are pointless if each specific look is locked to a single activity. For example, if the only way to get a blue gun is to do PvP, and the only way to get a red one is through raiding.

I know the Artifact is a bigger part of this expansion than previous weapons or armor sets, but otherwise how is this any different from every other expansion? If you never did any content outside of dungeons, then you were stuck with a comparatively limited choice of appearance. The coolest looking gear almost always came from raiding and PvP. Those activities you dislike have to provide incentives besides just seeing bigger numbers, you know.

Blizzard claimed that customizing your artifact would reflect the type of content you like to do. I'm sure there will be at least one artifact variant easily accessible by casual players, between the possibilities of dungeons, special questlines, reputations, professions, achievements, or raiding/PvP content with minimal time and effort involved like LFR or only a few levels into the new "Prestige Mode". And if you still aren't happy with the artifact appearance, there's always transmog. I'm sorry, but it's hard to feel sorry for you if you aren't going to participate in 50%+ of the game's main content and then complain that you're lacking rewards.

and besides, a gun and BM just doesn't fit, no matter how many dwarves and gnomes cheer and scream "finally!" Elves are not gun people. Tauren are not gun people.

I'm pretty sure that humans, worgen, orcs, and goblins all use guns regularly. Tauren hunters used to start with guns, though this may have changed at some point, and there are still plenty of gun-wielding Tauren. Though Elves may not use guns very often, I don't think the choice for an artifact should be based around one or two races.

And Nesingwary is not a hunter. He's an animal killer.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but chuckle at this part. I mean, seriously, just read it.

All fun aside, I realize that hunters in WoW are usually associated with animal companions, but even old Hemet has tamed a beast or two in his time - a Mammoth in Sholazar, and I seem to recall a turtle in the Valley of the Four Winds. Granted, his "beast mastery" seems to be more mastery over beasts than of/with them - personally, I think Rexxar would be a better BM representative - but you can't deny that Hemet is one of the most influential hunters in WoW.

[Araucaria]

Gungnir, Fenryr's Bane
Carried by the titan Odyn, this crossbow was meant to defeat the dreaded warg Fenryr. It was said to been able to lauch large lance like bolts with great force to pierce Fenryrs' hide. During Odyn's fight with Fenryr the weapon was lost in storm peaks. But it was rumored that Mimirion might've found the artifact to tinker with.

The motif of the crossbow probably be mix of wolf and raven bits to fit into the whole lore of Odyn. While the crossbows ammo would be a nod to Odyn's weapon of choice the lance known as Gungnir. And for added affect maybe something along the lines of the voice of the quinlin for the tinker bit of mim's doing.

Awesome idea! It would fit perfectly well with the lore, given that we have a version of Fenryr, and it still follows Blizz's idea to make something quite mechanical.
This is more or less what came to my mind

BM Artifact Fenryr's Bane.jpg (62.09 KiB) Viewed 8216 times

edit: I'm not sure of how the lance looks, unfortunately

[Nachtwulf]

Tauren have always and still do start with guns. Just throwin' it out there. Even the gun-using NPCs on Thunder Bluff use guns (the model referred to as 'Tribute Gun' with a tomahawk head and feathers stuck on it). Sure, the Native Americans primarily used bows but man, once they got their hands on guns, you better BELIEVE they used the hell out of them. Guns were a huge status symbol because they were far more powerful than bows.

Anyway. I think the one model of the gun is kind of silly because it's way too short, but on the other hand if you have a gnome, dwarf, or goblin hunter, you don't want the muzzle of your weapon clipping into the ground (this happens ALL THE TIME on my gnome furywar...) so I can understand the choice. I don't mind the idea of the weapon at all, and the ties to Mimiron/the titans is pretty cool, frankly; if I had to have one overall nitpick it's that I really don't like the weird flared 'bell' muzzle on basically all the models. It makes it look like a vacuum cleaner more than a firearm...

[pop]

Gungnir, Fenryr's Bane
Carried by the titan Odyn, this crossbow was meant to defeat the dreaded warg Fenryr. It was said to been able to lauch large lance like bolts with great force to pierce Fenryrs' hide. During Odyn's fight with Fenryr the weapon was lost in storm peaks. But it was rumored that Mimirion might've found the artifact to tinker with.

The motif of the crossbow probably be mix of wolf and raven bits to fit into the whole lore of Odyn. While the crossbows ammo would be a nod to Odyn's weapon of choice the lance known as Gungnir. And for added affect maybe something along the lines of the voice of the quinlin for the tinker bit of mim's doing.

Awesome idea! It would fit perfectly well with the lore, given that we have a version of Fenryr, and it still follows Blizz's idea to make something quite mechanical.
This is more or less what came to my mind

BM Artifact Fenryr's Bane.jpg

edit: I'm not sure of how the lance looks, unfortunately

OK I LOVE THAT I LOVZE YOU NOW

[SetsunaChan]

Gungnir, Fenryr's Bane
Carried by the titan Odyn, this crossbow was meant to defeat the dreaded warg Fenryr. It was said to been able to lauch large lance like bolts with great force to pierce Fenryrs' hide. During Odyn's fight with Fenryr the weapon was lost in storm peaks. But it was rumored that Mimirion might've found the artifact to tinker with.

The motif of the crossbow probably be mix of wolf and raven bits to fit into the whole lore of Odyn. While the crossbows ammo would be a nod to Odyn's weapon of choice the lance known as Gungnir. And for added affect maybe something along the lines of the voice of the quinlin for the tinker bit of mim's doing.

Awesome idea! It would fit perfectly well with the lore, given that we have a version of Fenryr, and it still follows Blizz's idea to make something quite mechanical.
This is more or less what came to my mind

BM Artifact Fenryr's Bane.jpg

edit: I'm not sure of how the lance looks, unfortunately

Wow! Glad to see someone liked the idea enough to make some awesome artwork of it! But really happy to see that my little story bit was able to inspire someone.

Heh it's ok about the lance, I'm not sure either. Probably just be along the lines of the spears/ballista ammo that's stuck in the fenryr model.

Guess onto some good news about the gun mmo-champ seems to have the skill tree for it and their is some really neat stuff added to it. Some have pointed out a talent that may actually allow you to have two pets out! The talents for the gun also seems to add some solo buffs too, like more healing to mend pet as well as a lightning shield for your pets.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I for one have played a BM Hunter from the start. I've never altered that, even when other specs passed us in DPS. I remained true. While I'm not "ALL BOW!!! NO GUNS!!" I don't like being locked into 'these' guys. I do think BM Fits better with a bow, a quiet weapon that wouldn't 'spook' your animal companion. I think MM as a 'sniper' should have... a sniper's weapon... a gun.

Still I don't think I'd have as much a problem with it (and I do have a problem with it on the concept level) If the gun they did give us, looked like they put some work into it. The 'base' gun looks less impressive than the engineering gun from WoD. The upgrade, less impressive than the engineered upgrade. The "Short' one with the bayonet looks stupid. Then.. there's the "Gonna shoot elephant snot" One.. that looks very very VERY plain. Box with a circle. A huge elephant trunk, two tusks. We got those back in Wrath. Much more impressively done too. Not that I liked them then, but this one just looks like a lame knock off. A questing green from Wrath. The snake laser with the strung blades looks... 'interesting' but I'm not in love with it either.

The lore they've given us (So far. This is just alpha...) doesn't seem to match with our spec what so ever. It seems so random and just out of no where. Add that in, to the lore we're given, does NOT MATCH THE WEAPONS. Even if we just took the lore, swallowed it and accepted it, the weapons don't look like they came from where the lore says they're from.

*Shakes head*

As for the different races using guns vs bows... Eh... yeah Tauren used guns. Night Elves used bows. "Traditionally" Even if alot of people have Tauren in their own head canon using Bows.

With our specs as they are. I'm not sure why they didn't give us 4 of one and at least 1 of the other. Or heck. Give us 3 1 and 1. One spec have 3 guns 1 bow 1 cross bow. The other have 3 bows 1 gun and 1 cross bow. Make everyone happy. MM sort of hits it with their cross bow option, but still. Locking us into ONE SINGLE WEAPON (Or hey, use old transmog if you don't like it a-hole) Is a strange route to take.

it leads to... things like this thread where huge segments of your population feel they can't play "Their' spec if 50-75% of the expansion is invalid to them.

My Orc Hunter uses bows mostly. If it's a COOl gun he'll use that. Our guns, being forced on me. Just aren't cool. Unless they shoot laser beams PEW PEW PEW. They're just not cool. They're pretty lame.

As to the 'What hunter's are and what they're not.

Some hunters hunt animals, for sure. Maybe even most would 'for food', but there's differences in the lore and in head canon.

My hunter is BM. He was never a 'big game hunter'. _Ever_. He ran WITH animals... what did he hunt? ____PEOPLE___ The most dangerous prey. Those that endangered his Clan. His people. His kingdom. When thrall raised those banners, Crashdown went to war. Using his bow (Or gun) To shoot as his most trusted companion, be it wolf, cat, or what have you fought for and with him.

He never hunted animals for pleasure. he existed beside them. With them. He hunted men and women and monsters that preyed on little orcs or blood elf children.

Now,, that's my headcannon for my Char. I imagine MANY Nightelves share that sort of outlook on their characters. Maybe even some other orcs.

Sure, some "hunters' See their char's as big game hunters. But that wouldn't be 'BEAST MASTERY' hunters.... those would be the other side of Marksmen. The one's that hunt trophies instead of just plain snipers. Those that -hunt- for the reward. Killing people or animals. Not to be WITH animals.

And that's fine. Clearly many people want hunters with out pets. I applaud the move. I actually think Marksman hunters will rock with out pets as that's just not what they're "About" They're "ABOUT" being snipers, and or big game hunters. Not pals with the furry kind.

More over I like that Survival is going melee. I think that's a great twist on the class. Get in there and mix it up. Personally I'd have given them dual wield axes. Let them play a class inspired by Rexar. (Or Wild hammer Dwarves. or night elves with twin daggers, or trolls with... whatever.) A few powers to throw axes (Like they throw their spears) then get in there with your pet and hack and slash. THAT would have been even more awesome. I've --never-- since Vanilla played Survival on any hunter. Even alts, where I've tried marksman now and then. NOW With Legion. I'm thinking of trying it on an alt, or even a second spec for my main. I think there will be interesting game play there and it's like an entire new pet class. (Not ranged so it doesn't feel like 'HUNTER' to me.)

So there's plenty of room for 'Your hunter and how you see them in your head and how you want to play them'

but if we're going for "The STORY of the class, the Stereotypical image of the class, the lore of the class" BM and guns aren't a good match for any of that. Nor are the -guns- we've been given, worthy of the lore they're trying to slap on them. It's like someone reading the brochure for a Dodge Challenger or Camero or Mustang, while leaning up against a 87 Yugo and nodding and winking at you! Sure.. it's got 4 wheels and rolls. It'll get you from point a to point b, but that's not what the brochure described, and it's going to look pretty lame as you drive it, and when everyone else is flying by with their snazzy sports cars (( LOOK AT DRUIDS FOR GODS SAKE)), your yugo is just going to look and FEEL that much worse.

[Aquillian]

Personally I think the rifles we got questing through WoD look way nicer than any of the artifact variants. I kept every single color of the quest guns, I liked them that much. It upsets me that I like those more than any model of what will be my shiny new weapon for an entire expansion. Though I may stick with SV on my primary hunter, if it ends up being as fun as it sounds.

[Rhyela]

I don't have much to add other than the arguments against guns because they would scare the pet are absurd. If our pets can chomp on the hindquarters of dragons and constructs and demons and every other huge, monstrous and terrifying being that's stomped on Azeroth, and not get scared and hide under a bed, then I HIGHLY doubt a gun would phase them. Especially now that they sound like pop guns. I've farted at higher decibels than those guns. So choose whatever argument you want against guns, but this particular one?..... Just no.