Why should SV / MM hunters get Exotic Beast families?

[cowmuflage]

I don't see that working out well. Some pet models would not work well with armour on them and just look ugly :S

[Saturo]

I don't see that working out well. Some pet models would not work well with armour on them and just look ugly :S

How can you say no to an armored sporebat!? HOW!?

[cowmuflage]

heh that would be cool. But some others would not. How would you put armour on a worm it would just fall off lol. a spirit beast well it might just fall thru it or something lol

[Rhyela]

I don't see that working out well. Some pet models would not work well with armour on them and just look ugly :S

And see, I'm a step ahead of you in that you could choose whether or not to display it. And maybe not all people would think armor looked ugly on all pets. You may think an armored tallstrider would look silly, but I think Rainey would rather like a shining suit of armor. hehe

[Rhyela]

heh that would be cool. But some others would not. How would you put armour on a worm it would just fall off lol. a spirit beast well it might just fall thru it or something lol

But we already have the Spectral Tiger mount! It has armor!!! It would work, I tell you!

[cowmuflage]

Shush you.

[Slickrock]

How would you put armour on a worm it would just fall off lol. a spirit beast well it might just fall thru it or something lol

If it stays on the star-ponies, it can stay on a spirit beast..

[Shandorei]

Well, in that case, it sounds sort of like what they're planning to do with BM Mastery in Cata, so you'll see a variety of it, at least.

Kidding me? Ahh sweet love of God, THANK YOU VERY MUCH :D:D:D:D:D

[Slickrock]

BM goes through the AP->Agi->ArP progression just like everyone else, but at different gear levels. I personally prefer not to go for ArP as that decreases pet dmg output, though increasing your own--I think if you do that, why not just spec MM : /

I forget what the break-point is, but in my gear-set it made sense to go ahead and start gemming ArP. Once you are at that level, you are only really raiding, so, pet damage is not that big a deal. And it's not like it was a direction I chose. Blizz has so much ArP on the gear now, that it eventually happens. They are giving you ArP instead of Agi, Hit, Crit, or AP, so it makes sense to go with the flow.

Of course, all this will change in Cata, so it's not worth arguing about it being a bad or good choice.

And yes, the shot rotation is stupid with high-ArP setups. It's literally Sting/Steady. Aimed and Multi aren't even needed.

[Slickrock]

Well, in that case, it sounds sort of like what they're planning to do with BM Mastery in Cata, so you'll see a variety of it, at least.

Huh?... that's not my interpretation of it.. the mastery bonuses are basically that, stat buffs. I don't remember anything about items.

[Saturo]

Yeah, you get mastery rating on your gear, let's call it "petgear". "Petgear" increases your pets damage, like normal gear. Sure, not really the same, but it works similarly, if you read the post I was referring to.

[Shandorei]

Ahh will do, thanks Saturo:D I will PM you about ... something ... soon

[Turgus]

I think that if Exotic pets will be tamable by every hunter then they would no longer be Exotic and would be just another pet.
I can handle that. (I am opposed to the idea, but I can handle it)
However, there is the loss of the defining aspect of the BM spec to contemplate.

Now, the 4 points that a pet gets from being a BM pet shouldn't go away, and should be tied into oh, maybe Kindred Spirits or something like that. I would like to see maybe even increasing to 6 extra pet talent points or something like that. With a level of talents you can't get at unless you are BM spec, period.
Now, I think they need to work on the pet talent trees, especially the Tenacity and Cunning ones.
I would love to see glyphs made that increase pet stats, like one that increases their strength and stamina by 20% or something like that. (Like death knights and warlocks have glyphs that affect their pets)
Oh, I am getting a little off topic, but it is so easy for me, lol

Alright, back to talents... I like the idea of having two pets out at the same time, but I see allot of issues with it. Looking at just the way I would play if I could have two pets out at the same time. I would not have the same kind of pet out (Tenacity/Cunning/Ferocity) I would mix it up. If I was soloing, I would have one Tenacity and one Ferocity or maybe even two Tenacity pets out (the idea of crazy AOE grinding comes to mind); If I was PvPing, I would have one Cunning and one Ferocity or maybe even two Cunning pets out (dealing with those pesky rogues); and if I was raiding/grouping I would probably have two Ferocity pets out (Max DPS, lol.)
Just looking at this, I would need to have two different pet bars, being able to control which one had growl on, and be able to micro manage their abilities. Having them attack the same mob I am completely fine with, but I would HAVE to be able to control growl and each of their abilities separately.
I think this idea is doable, and interesting, but has a few issues that come into mind when dealing with managing two pets at the same time.
I am dubious about Blizzards willingness to let hunters have two pets out at the same time though.


Now to the signature shot idea, it would be some sort of "Serrated Arrow Shot or whatever", dealing XXX damage and adding a debuff on the target that would increase the damage of your pets next attack by XXX, the debuff being consumed upon your pets attack. (Damage modified by agility of course)
Since Blizzard is doing away with cooldowns, it would have oh... a 45-60 focus cost, like Chimera or Aimed Shot.
It would have to increase both the hunters damage, and the pets damage to scale properly with the other specs.

It does seems that Blizzard has also identified that BM doesn't have a "signature shot" and will be making Cobra Shot the default shot for BM instead of Steady Shot for focus regen.
I am not sure why they are doing this, or what real effect changing out the one shot will be, but I will have to wait and see.


For BM to really be a viable spec though, they need some other talent, maybe even a modified current talent that would give them some kind of ability the others don't have, something like scatter shot, or silencing shot do.

Lets take Spirit Bond for example.
If I had my way, any healing that you or your pet received, the other would receive as well, including Mend Pet. Maybe even just a percentage (50%/25%) of the amount healed.
(Instead of the current 5/10% increased healing received per the current talent.)
Yes, I know how that may sound, but think about it. (Bear in mind that Rogues will be getting a self heal in Cataclysm)

Or lets take Animal Handler. In addition to increasing the duration of Masters Call, it also increases the Hunters speed by 20%/30% for Masters Call's duration.

Truely I don't have the answers. But, I think most would agree that this line of thinking may come to some real ideas.

And Goodness! While I was typing this up there were 20 posts!! LOL

[Slickrock]

Yeah, you get mastery rating on your gear, let's call it "petgear". "Petgear" increases your pets damage, like normal gear. Sure, not really the same, but it works similarly, if you read the post I was referring to.

But the mastery points themselves were generic, weren't they? and your combined mastery bonus just applied to the trees depending on how many points you put in them.

Remember, those mastery bonuses are meant to offset the passive bonus talents that they are removing...

[FuzzyDolly]

Jumped in and gave my 2 cents

Anyway, the visual effects of the BM spec also counts to many, mostly the exotic pets are big, ferocious and looks deadly, with some neat tools (Like the chimera in your signature )

Even if the MM / SV specs got them, I would be fine with that, in trade of something that is visual, perhaps making the last talent in BM scale the pets to grow abit bigger, because as you said, we are masters of beasts, and -our- beasts should look stronger than the SV / MM beasts without looking at the HP and buffs we get from BM tree.

Think that idea would keep the feeling of being a BM still hang around, because.. The size of that devilsaur is NEAT, agree there

Like maybe having the BM pets stay original size? Now that would be cool. Or maybe just have them reduce by 25% instead of 75%. lol Plus, I'd love if BM had more pet buff abilities. I don't want the other specs cool shots. I learned that when I dual specced MM (what a waste of $1,000 G) I want to be able to back up my pet. Yes, I said it... to back up my pet. That to me is what Bm should be about. A special bond between hunter and pet that allows our pets to do more than a regular pet. Maybe let everyone tame all beasts, but let BM pets have a special attack all to their own. Think of it as a MM shot but through our pets.

[Shandorei]

Ahh FuzzyDolly, kinda like intimidation, or what its called? You do that trough the pet etc :p

[KeemZ]

Frankly, I would like to see the opposite.. take pets away from MM entirely. Make them into true sharpshooters. Just give them an extra talent to make up for the wolf buff, and remove the pets entirely from that tree. SV would only get cunning pets for the utility. Then BM would be truly unique and different.

If you think it's not fair to take our exotic pets away from us, why is it fair to take every pet away from the Marks or Survival hunters, some of whom do love their pets and have as deep a bond with their pets as the beast masters do, but must spec MM or SV for particular reasons, i.e., being in a serious progression guild, playstyle, just can't stand BM like I can't stand MM/SV, etc?

That's not any more right. And we'd probably lose a lot of hunters from the class if that were the case - and perhaps might even lose some of the posters from this board, who aren't beast masters but still love their furry friends in Azeroth.

Far as I would be concerned, keep the exotics on BM but leave my pets alone LoL. I dont use wolves and prolly never will but I love my pets just as much as any BM. Don't get me wrong, BM got some great looking pets(Core hounds rock, LoL) but for as much as I play alone, I like my animal brotherrs keeping me company .

[Otterpops]

I'd still like to see a Ranger class made... Something that doesn't get pets, but can Either be like a MM hunter, or a Rogue, or some third spec, that way, the fools who just use pets as stat sticks can either re-roll or be left out by true hunters. That, and I'd just love to have something similar to how Legolas can fight. LoTR ftw. =)

And I would disagree on your statement about how Exotics are the only thing keeping BM 'afloat' Kryte. Hell, with how I've seen some hardcore BM raiders do things, and put their adversaries in their places, i wouldn't even call it a 'Drowning' spec.

I don't raid, so I can't really speak to the viability of anything. I'm basing my argument on the doom and gloom pronouncements in this thread, that BM would be a dead spec if not for exotics. To me, that sounds ridiculous. Now, I love pets, but that ultimately comes down to saying, "I'm only this spec because of a cosmetic." That, to me, is messed up. A person should be, say, speccing Shadow because they like the spec, not because Shadow form turns them purple. If that really is the only reason that people spec BM, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the spec, and it should be reworked.

I really liked this comment. I was mm/bm on my last hunter and yes it was JUST to have a chance to try the exotics. There was no other reason to use a spec that was considerably that much weaker even in basic PVE it would take 3 times longer to hunt and skin than when I was in MM. I know it's stupid but eventually I became very embarrassed walking around with an exotic in public, like I was a spectacle of weakness. I gave up BM.

Just my opinion but they need to make exotics tamable by all and make BM a strong solid spec.

For BM abilities? They should have their own shots in the same way mm & sv. Maybe allow them to have pets that are swarms like a colony of rats, pack of wolves, swarm of meerkats.

I've seen hunters that do run around and do dungeons without pets. I think it's just a little creepy, not sure why...

[Ryai]

I'm just gonna say it again.

Allowing non Beast Master hunters to tame EXOTICS would be like allowing Beast Master Hunters the option of learning Silence Shot/Chimera shot OR Scatter/Wyvern/Black Arrow/Explosive Shot.

You may claim it's not the same but it is. Because we have to specc for it and with it gone we only gain '+4 talents' and you may go oh but this will make Blizz give us our own shot. NO IT WILL NOT. Blizz already is giving us a 'nature replacement' for STEADY shot of all god damn things. Don't you see, if we lose our pets, lose the option of taming exotics, we lose what makes, what DEFINES BM atm because Blizzard isn't going to give us something to replace it.

Exotics being BM only makes sense because as a SHOTS SPECIALIST like MM or SV would you take the time, the drive, have the desire to steel your nerves, body and mind to prepare yourself to tame beasts smarter, faster and better than the average joe? Cause I can certainly tell you that as 'smart' as non exotic pets are, Exotics are probably twice as smart and twice as deadly.

Or do you want to end up being snack food.

So yeah if Exotics are opened up for all hunters, I want MM exclusive shots or SV exclusive shots, because if keeping exotics to BM trees makes no sense, then keeping shots exclusive to trees makes no sense either!

[Shandorei]

I really liked this comment. I was mm/bm on my last hunter and yes it was JUST to have a chance to try the exotics. There was no other reason to use a spec that was considerably that much weaker even in basic PVE it would take 3 times longer to hunt and skin than when I was in MM. I know it's stupid but eventually I became very embarrassed walking around with an exotic in public, like I was a spectacle of weakness. I gave up BM.

Just my opinion but they need to make exotics tamable by all and make BM a strong solid spec.

For BM abilities? They should have their own shots in the same way mm & sv. Maybe allow them to have pets that are swarms like a colony of rats, pack of wolves, swarm of meerkats.

I've seen hunters that do run around and do dungeons without pets. I think it's just a little creepy, not sure why...

Mate I'm sorry, but I would bet I could take you down fairly easy anyday in a duel against you in your MM spec as BM.. You surely don't know the power a BM hunter wields with the correct use of spells and timing. Let me tell you this: I beat nearly every single class one on one, healers aswell. SV / MM Hunters hit hard, but only for those 2 secs, then they got to wait for CDs.. If I pop my CDs, and use my combination of Arcane and aimed shot you would be nuked down pretty fast. I'm sorry, but stating you feel weak in the spec just makes me sad and honestly you must be bad then. Just had to say it, DO NOT feel weak in this spec. I feel like a boss in it, I can beat almost everyone with an exception of Spriests and locks.


Edit; Speaking on behalf of my main, not the 37 hunter in the signature.

Quelthasa - Magtheridon