Ravager Question:

[Cerele]

I vote they are mammal,
They care for their young, a feature insects and repitiles usually don't have, they are highly intellegent and work seperately from each othe unlike an insect, and they have only two eyes on the front of their heads, something both reptiles and insects lack.

Ravager=mammal,

I'm sorry, but no. They don't fit the definition of a mammal at all.

Any of various warm-blooded vertebrate animals of the class Mammalia, including humans, characterized by a covering of hair on the skin and, in the female, milk-producing mammary glands for nourishing the young.

They are definitely more insectoid than they are mammalian.

Have you lifted up your Ravager's skirt? who knows maybe it does have mammary glands, and a really bad skin condition, pish n o creativity here

[Worba]

They don't have skirts?

[CrystalKitten]

My own opinion is that it's not likely to be anything that's classifiable. Without knowing the actual internal physiology, it would be difficult to tell for certain. I would say the closest thing would be an insect, based on the legs, and the fact that it has a carapace, or seeming exoskeleton. However, other animals have had both an exoskeleton AND internal skeletal/cartilaginous structure, so without knowing the internal structure (does it have a spinal structure? or is all structural support on the exterior?) it's difficult to say for certain.

In Zangarmarsh, the druids/night elves seem to call MUCH of the outland wildlife insectoid. That extrapolation could then consider them insects. The top half of the skull seems vaguely reptillian, and depending on the internal morphology, I would say that it could be POSSIBLE it's reptillian, however, them being insectoid seems much more likely, based on the leg structure, mention of carapace, and how many of the "visitors" to outlands seem to consider much of the wildlife to be insectoid.

[Cerele]

They don't have skirts?

i was saying it could be stored in the mother, or only active after shes given birth, animals are weird

[Zuilu]

Definitely an insect, imo. The only reptilians that have carapaces are turtles and tortoises (unless google has deceived me) The segmented body and leg structure pretty much gives it a dead give away for a bug. I couldn't find a single reptile that would look anything like this..I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's theory, but I truely cannot see the resemblence of reptiles - ravager. But, I don't think anyone mentioned this before, ravagers look kinda..grub like. The body does. If you look at a picture and just take away the legs, it looks like a grub. I definitely think its an insect, and maybe they were fully a grub before evolving into a ravager..

[Vephriel]

*nod* Agreed with Zuilu. I can't think of any reptiles that have legs that just end in points such as a Ravager's. Reptiles either have no legs or some sort of feet with claws. The segmented appendages seem completely insectoid to me.

[CrystalKitten]

The other option could be some kind of crustacean. But, again I refer to my argument that visitors to outland tend to refer to a lot of the alien life as bugs, or insects.

[Vephriel]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that Crystal. Crustacean seems a likely comparison as well.

[Worba]

Yes, crustacean would be a plausible alternative to insectoid.

Also the head looks rather... orcish.

[Sukurachi]

let anyone forget, they lay eggs as well.

[Worba]

Who, orcs?

[CrystalKitten]

let anyone forget, they lay eggs as well.

Egg laying, while generally considered exclusive to certain things, is in fact.. not a defining factor. Both insects AND reptiles lay eggs, as do most amphibians, fish, and arthropods (including crabs, and other crustaceans). Then there's also a few mammals which lay eggs, and some from the categories that are generally considered egg layers.. which give live birth (example.. sharks are fish.. but many give live birth... I believe I've heard of some snakes which do the same).

[GormanGhaste]

ravagers look kinda..grub like

I now have this excitement that some day, at some unheard signal, all the ravagers are going to spin cocoons and then hatch into...what? I can't wait!

[Sukurachi]

let anyone forget, they lay eggs as well.

Egg laying, while generally considered exclusive to certain things, is in fact.. not a defining factor. Both insects AND reptiles lay eggs, as do most amphibians, fish, and arthropods (including crabs, and other crustaceans). Then there's also a few mammals which lay eggs, and some from the categories that are generally considered egg layers.. which give live birth (example.. sharks are fish.. but many give live birth... I believe I've heard of some snakes which do the same).

I wasn't giving it as a "defining"factor, but rather as an additional element to take into consideration.
Someone mentioned that they thought of ravagers as mammals.

Egg laying in mammals is not the norm, and is generally seen as demonstration of stalled or halted evolutionary process.

Sharks actually never have "live birth". The ones who simulate live birth in fact lay eggs. The eggs, complete with hard-shelled egg casing like all other sharks, are hatched within the body cavity of the mother. They are then released at a proximal later date.

Caveat: the information on sharks dates from a time I was thinking of going into marine biology (30 years ago). I will readily accept that more recent findings may have altered the general scientific consensus on the issue.

[GormanGhaste]

Sharks actually never have "live birth". The ones who simulate live birth in fact lay eggs. The eggs, complete with hard-shelled egg casing like all other sharks, are hatched within the body cavity of the mother. They are then released at a proximal later date.

Some insects do this as well! We've bred Madagascar hissing cockroaches, and you can see the female partially extruding the egg case as she creates it, then drawing it back inside once completed. The babies crawl out once they've hatched.

[CrystalKitten]

Sharks actually never have "live birth". The ones who simulate live birth in fact lay eggs. The eggs, complete with hard-shelled egg casing like all other sharks, are hatched within the body cavity of the mother. They are then released at a proximal later date.

Caveat: the information on sharks dates from a time I was thinking of going into marine biology (30 years ago). I will readily accept that more recent findings may have altered the general scientific consensus on the issue.

I did a dissection on dogfish, which are sharks. One of them was pregnant, and inside were 3 embryos. Granted, they appeared quite formed (this was a vert class, not developmental, so I don't know what stage exactly they were at) however, the yolk sac WAS still present, large (I would say still nearly the same volume as the embryo), and quite distinct from them. There was no evidence within of any shell. This is what I based my information off of, as I admittedly haven't learned to much on the specifics of fish/shark reproduction yet. That said... in either case it depends on what you definition you want for live birth. Perhaps they do most of their development within the egg inside.. and then finish outside the egg(I'm thinking.. kind of like kangaroos or pandas, which are birthed before fully developed).. in which case.. I think it would be more a mix between the two (as some development would be in the egg.. and some external to it...)... When I have less studying to do I may use our school's access to scientific papers, or my text books, to try and find out EXACTLY what's going on.. As now I'm definitely interested.

Back on topic: And yes, I understand the point you were trying to make. However, my counter was simply that there are exceptions, or alterations to the norms even here on earth. Who KNOWS how an alien species might evolve to reproduce. Who knows if their eggs are even eggs as we think of them? It's the same as how I think that technically, Ravagers don't belong to any earth classification (same with nether rays and spore bats... wtf would you classify THEM as o.O) especially without knowing more about the biology of them.. However, if we go by external characteristics, AND the comments of the organizations visiting outland.. I still stand by my vote for them being insectoid (or at the least, crustacean/arthropods, which is a bit broader than "insect")

[GormanGhaste]

Out of curiosity I did a quick search, and sharks can be oviparous, ovoviviparous, or viviparous.

[Melentari]

Wow, this stirred up a lot more discussion than I thought it would!

I'm still undecided, though. They do look buggy, at least from leg-tip to leg-base, but they look a little reptilian from there up, and then there's the whole egg issue (which I'm reminded of female alligators that mind their nest and cart the babies around in their mouths)... I'm kind of hoping that, when my little hunters get to Outland, they'll find a ravager they click with! Because if you can say "Well, I'm not sure what it is!", maybe it fits in either of their schemes...

[Ceravan]

they remind me of some of the bugs in starship troopers

[Sukurachi]

they remind me of some of the bugs in starship troopers

most definitely.
first time I saw a Ravager, I thought "BUGS!"