Insurance wont cover you if you have one of these dogs

[Aleu]

I still argue Westies are the true demon dogs. << >> Kidding. XD I don't mind them, but the ones I've come across were spoiled brats.

Either way, some insurance companies still will cover you, but if you have any of their listed breeds, they'll just charge you more.

[Wain]

Out of interest, the BBC report on the dog that was just put down in Ireland is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18794360

There's more to the story than him just being a sweet dog that happened to look like a pit bull. The council acted with reasons. It doesn't mean it was right to destroy him, but they didn't act on just his looks. And unless the report is wrong, the owner did accept that he was a "pit bull type", which is illegal in the British Isles. There are exemptions for such, but it sounds like the owner never applied for one until after he was discovered, and they considered him too dangerous to award one anyway.

[Bonita]

Ty for that link

[Redith]

Out of interest, the BBC report on the dog that was just put down in Ireland is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18794360

There's more to the story than him just being a sweet dog that happened to look like a pit bull. The council acted with reasons. It doesn't mean it was right to destroy him, but they didn't act on just his looks. And unless the report is wrong, the owner did accept that he was a "pit bull type", which is illegal in the British Isles. There are exemptions for such, but it sounds like the owner never applied for one until after he was discovered, and they considered him too dangerous to award one anyway.

Their reasons were shite. They even had someone here in America offer to pay all expenses to have him shipped to USA. But the jackholes went "Nope hes dangerous, must kill"

[Rawr]

But Labs and Goldens have more biting incidents than German Shepherds.

Do you have some stats on that? You just quoted two of the most popular breeds in the world, so I'm wondering if it's because of that and their bite chance per dog is actually a lot less. From what I've seen they're in the low bite chance group.

Yes the two most popular, most popular means more of them, many states outlaw dog breeds deemed "vicious" so there are less of them i.e. less dogs equals less biting, I have seen the statistics on them and as soon as I find them I'll link it but I'm going out to dinner and will have to get back to you. Also many statistic sides have skewed numbers as half of Americans can't tell the difference between an American Bulldog and a Pitbull or a Husky and a Tamaskan (these were just examples).

[Agravaine]

That list seems close this one: http://listverse.com/2011/08/23/top-10- ... og-breeds/

Came across it while looking up info on wolves and wolfdog breeds.

[Wain]

This one, which cites peer-reviewed research is interesting, and has a neat table: http://indigorescue.org/?page_id=83 . A couple of small breeds top the list, but of course are less likely to inflict serious harm on an adult. I wouldn't trust one I didn't know well with a child though. Dachshunds really stood out! Many of the other breeds up there on the list are ones bred for biting or nipping. For example Border Collies and Australian Cattle Dogs are bred to nip the legs of livestock to get them to move, so sometimes they carry this trait over to humans they don't regard as their superiors, but it's frequently more of an unpleasant nip than anything really serious. Jack Russells and Beagles are bred for grabbing (quarry) first and thinking later. Pit Bulls are up there as well, but they have a greater capacity for damage when they do bite, which is a lot of the concern.

Another case-controlled study is here, but doesn't break down by individual breed (though it does list the top breeds and bottom breeds). It is only for Denver County, so a smaller study and also omits pit bulls because they were banned in the county. Highlights:

Dogs predominantly of German shepherd, chow chow, collie and akita breeds were substantially more frequent among biting than nonbiting dogs.

Dogs predominantly of chihuahua, golden retriever, labrador retriever, poodle, Scottish terrier, and Shetland sheepdog breeds were more common among nonbiting than among the biting dogs.

A couple of those were found to be more frequent biters in the previous study (like chihuahuas), so there's a bit of contradiction there.

A legal site specializing in dog bite cases (so is commercial, but seems to represent both the accused and victims so hopefully not too biased) discusses some stats on dog bites and fatalities here: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-stat ... -kill.html . The breeds that topped the list are the most familiar.

I would, however, LOVE to see a study on dog bites vs owner quality, but I'm guessing that might be hard to do. Studies that judge the character quality of human beings, especially trashy ones, are rather delicate You'd also have the complication of dog personality vs owner (are some breeds more influenced by their owners than others?).

[Miacoda]

dog breeds do exhibit behavioural differences. It's not what we'd like, and it doesn't fit the dog version of an "everyone is equal" philosophy, but it is science. Some are more aggressive or more likely to bite than others and shouldn't be encouraged as suburban pets, just as some breeds are more prone to hyperactivity or compulsive fetching or need more exercise than a suburban backyard can provide and probably should also be discouraged. Sure there's a lot between-individual variety but breed differences do exist. It's true the owner has to take responsibility, but the fact is that's not always going to happen. Trashy people with breeds that need more discipline are always going to be a problem. The same is true with their children, but we can't just take their kids from them until they already show signs of serious abuse.

I do understand that trashy people with higher risk dogs will always happen, but why punish the dog for it? Honestly.
I also understand that some breeds tend to be more aggressive than others, but it all comes from a high protective instinct (except in situations like some small breeds, as you mentioned earlier). It can be their family, territory, food, whatever, it's just wired into their brain, but it's a behavior that can either be corrected or it can be spurred on, and I bet there are many dog behavior experts that would gladly correct those behaviors in dogs that are in trouble.

Out of interest, the BBC report on the dog that was just put down in Ireland is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18794360

There's more to the story than him just being a sweet dog that happened to look like a pit bull. The council acted with reasons. It doesn't mean it was right to destroy him, but they didn't act on just his looks. And unless the report is wrong, the owner did accept that he was a "pit bull type", which is illegal in the British Isles. There are exemptions for such, but it sounds like the owner never applied for one until after he was discovered, and they considered him too dangerous to award one anyway.

What I'm really annoyed at is that many experts offered there opinions, and Victoria Stillwell offered to take him to a dog sanctuary in the US where he would be away from the public. They turned down even meeting up with her to discuss it.
And They say he was unpredictable and dangerous, but dogs can act differently in different situations. Imagine being Lennox, not knowing what's going on and why you were taken away from your "pack." some dogs just don't react well to the stresses of confinement. We don't know what conditions he was kept in or what attention he was given.
And yeah, the owner had him illegally, so freaking fine the owner and at least let the dog live. And perhaps, when observing a dog as dangerous or not, observe them in a normal environment.
The other day I watched the documentary 'One Nation Under Dog' and in one part, a shelter dog that was claimed aggressive was pulled out of that confined environment, and immediately calmed down and was loving and licking to the man who saved her.

I will absolutely never see a reason for a dog to be put down unless he or she is either rabid or is suffering from something incureable. (Or...as much as I hate it, if a dog killed someone. I feel like that dog would just end up suffering due to media coverage.)

Here's another article, a bit older, focusing more on the owners side: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb ... 91800.html

I just... Really hate it how laws treat animals as if they have ill intent when they don't. =/

I know I'm totally biased. I just get really annoyed with humanity sometimes. >.< This is just one of those things.

[Crotalus Horridus]

and the only time it didn't bark was when I gave it chicken nuggets.

Arh HAR! So it all comes back, in full circle!



Don't lie Rattle Snake, we know what "chicken nuggets" you where feeding that puppy... You where trying to get it to DE-evolve back into a dinosaur!!!!!
Your plot has been EXPOSED!!!!

Rats! My plan to turn the dog into a Prehistoric Bear Dog has been foiled! *Slithers away*

By the way, have a Prehistoric Bear Dog.

[Sukurachi]

the breed's "work" class is certainly one of the defining factors in its behaviour. So yes, herding dogs can be naturally "nippy". Fighting dogs ARE bred to be biters, in a sense (they also tend to lose the "white neck" reflex - a natural canine reflex where the sight of a losing opponent's exposed neck [generally white] shuts off aggressive behaviour).

It kills me to see Huskies on any "dangerous breeds" list.
The sad thing is, idiots get Huskies. They're relatively big. And they shed like the devil!
So what happens? The dog gets put outside all on its own.
What does that cause? Dogs are naturally social animals. Isolation makes them aggressive. (along with boredom)
Isolation also removes socialization.

Huskies are running dogs. Absolutely nothing in their genetic makeup indicates any sort of propensity to aggressive behaviour. They are high-energy dogs that REALLY need an escape valve for all that pent up doggy octane.

My girl runs like mad in our yard... and I chase her, and try to catch her, and she will run for 10-15 minutes non-stop. Then she comes into the house, all happy and pooped out, and she's good for the day. Aggressive? Lord no. She might scare the crap out of a burglar, mind you... mostly because Huskies don't really "bark"... she makes the weirdest, scary noise you can imagine instead.

In my opinion, keeping a dog outside should be illegal.
If you get a dog, it should be able to socialize with you and your family.
If you cannot, or won't, do that, then the dog should be removed and given to a family who will.

I think it's animal cruelty to keep dogs chained outside, or in the yard 24/7, with a doghouse.
It's psychological abuse.

[GormanGhaste]

I think owning these larger dog breeds should require training. People who own potentially dangerous exotic animals have to be licensed, I don't think dog owners should be exempt from that.

[Wain]

In my opinion, keeping a dog outside should be illegal.
If you get a dog, it should be able to socialize with you and your family.
If you cannot, or won't, do that, then the dog should be removed and given to a family who will.
I think it's animal cruelty to keep dogs chained outside, or in the yard 24/7, with a doghouse.
It's psychological abuse.

I couldn't agree more My old girl slept in my room from the day I got her till when she died at 15. But even if the dog sleeps elsewhere, it's psychological cruelty to leave them outside on their own, away from the rest of their family, for most of the time. I have to hold my tongue so often when I find people do that, but I try to be more subtle in making them think about how the dog feels. If you have multiple dogs it's probably nowhere near as bad.

I know some of what I've said in this thread probably makes some people think I'm a bit callous, but it's quite the opposite. I'd rather people realize there are often differences in behaviour between breeds, rather than believe it's all just the owner and end up with something unsuitable, which in the end will only make life more miserable for both dog and owner. And I despise people who don't take full responsibility for the wellbeing and actions of their animals, much as I despise bad parents who do the same. Maybe both should require licences

And coincidentally this pic seems to be doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment and it's very appropriate:

[Redith]

In my opinion, keeping a dog outside should be illegal.
If you get a dog, it should be able to socialize with you and your family.
If you cannot, or won't, do that, then the dog should be removed and given to a family who will.
I think it's animal cruelty to keep dogs chained outside, or in the yard 24/7, with a doghouse.
It's psychological abuse.

I couldn't agree more My old girl slept in my room from the day I got her till when she died at 15. But even if the dog sleeps elsewhere, it's psychological cruelty to leave them outside on their own, away from the rest of their family, for most of the time. I have to hold my tongue so often when I find people do that, but I try to be more subtle in making them think about how the dog feels. If you have multiple dogs it's probably nowhere near as bad.

I know some of what I've said in this thread probably makes some people think I'm a bit callous, but it's quite the opposite. I'd rather people realize there are often differences in behaviour between breeds, rather than believe it's all just the owner and end up with something unsuitable, which in the end will only make life more miserable for both dog and owner. And I despise people who don't take full responsibility for the wellbeing and actions of their animals, much as I despise bad parents who do the same. Maybe both should require licences

And coincidentally this pic seems to be doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment and it's very appropriate:

This is actually up on our training wall in PetsMart, and its why they focus so hard on training is because most dogs are surrendered just for behavior problems I could help ya fix in like 20 minutes lol

[Miacoda]

Oooh I'll have to find that and share it... On both Facebook accounts (I have one for friends I haven't met in person because I'm a weirdo, Lololol. Also the majority of my "I've met in person" friends couldn't care less about WoW. <.<)!

[Miacoda]

Wow.. there was definitely something suspicious with this case...

From Victoria Stillwell on Facebook:

• "I want to know why Belfast City council won't give Lennox's body back to the family and why they won't even return his collar to Brooke even though they were asked to do so by the family so that she could have something to remember him by. There is something corrupt going on and an independent review of the council's actions in this case needs to be done. I want answers. Why not return the body? Was Lennox even still alive and what physical condition was he in at the time of his death? We already have evidence of his poor physical state during Sarah Fisher's behavioral evaluation of him last year. Hair loss, sores on his body,a hurt neck and damaged paw. The council have many questions they need to answer because I think they have something to hide."

I really have to agree. This just screams suspicion.

And here is one of the actual behavioral experts that evaluated him (the BCCs "expert" was just a retired police dog trainer, not a qualified dog behaviorist) and his say on the matter (it's a long read): http://canineaggression.blogspot.com/20 ... e-off.html

Aaaaand here's Victoria and a BCC representative talking about it on the radio: http://positively.com/2012/07/11/victor ... the-radio/

I feel like I've been under a rock. I knew BSL was horrible but... I dunno, I guess 'One Nation Under Dog' just woke me up. I just didn't know it could be THIS bad.

[zedxrgal]

I didn't want to have to post this but being the bully breed advocate that I am .................. I'm going to.
WARNING!!! GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING IMAGES!
"Pit Bull Problem"

[Redith]

Well not trying to promote my own crap but here is the video on how to tell a good pitbull from a bad pitbull
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0zRslRM ... ature=plcp


And heres another dog vid i did on dog fighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9oae5lo ... ature=plcp

[Nanotrev]

Dogs... dogs dogs dogs... and a fairly large group of people will willingly defend their right to have them, which is great! I love dogs too, but I can't have one.

/jealous

Something to be aware of is that the Humane Society of the United States actually wants to ban your dogs and cats. They're merely starting with reptiles first, and a mere dollar from every hundred you donate actually goes towards animal shelters. The rest goes to their lobbying and paying their own checks.

Something to know.

[GormanGhaste]

Something to be aware of is that the Humane Society of the United States actually wants to ban your dogs and cats.

Something to be aware of is that if you have a point you're trying to make, this sort of absurd statement is not actually helping your cause.

[Sukurachi]

Something to be aware of is that the Humane Society of the United States actually wants to ban your dogs and cats.

Something to be aware of is that if you have a point you're trying to make, this sort of absurd statement is not actually helping your cause.

the point, I believe, is that there are serious allegations regarding the Humane Society of the United States.

http://www.animalscam.com/

I don't know whether to take any or all of it with a grain of salt, but I am VERY leery of anything that is in any way, shape or form associated with PETA. I am NOT a supporter of PETA.