New Camouflage in Cataclysm Alpha

[Golden]

lets keep our fingers crossed that they wont change it!!!

but... where did u read that the designers were against the camouflage from the preview?

They were against hunters getting a "real" stealth, so instead the camo shown in the preview was more of a ranged deterrence that would go away if you get hit in melee or by aoe.

[Ryai]

Is this a true stealth or just a you look like a mirror walking around stealth?

And I'm not that keen on it, sure droods and rogues get a -30% speed reduction when stealthed. But they have talents in specific trees to negate this.

Will hunters get that option?

If we even get this spell?

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I think we should be happy to get a stealth at all, Ryai. That being said, don't cross your fingers. This popped up in Wrath's alpha too, and we see where that went. Right along with bear trap, and a frost trap that took damage to break.

I THINK there is a new move of data and changes going on in the alpha, hence the reinforcement of the NDA. We got to see some purty things, but now that the serious stuff is starting, it's lights out kiddies.

[Chrizesu]

Hey guys, it's not a true stealth. They were thinking of adding it as a stealth originally in WotLK, but decided against it.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Incorrect. It has been changed on the current alpha client to include true stealth, and even goes so far as to stealth your pet. It comes with a reduced movement speed, and an increased opening shot. FOR THE MOMENT. I for one fully expect this to change.

[Ryai]

Incorrect. It has been changed on the current alpha client to include true stealth, and even goes so far as to stealth your pet. It comes with a reduced movement speed, and an increased opening shot. FOR THE MOMENT. I for one fully expect this to change.

yeah.

Druids: QQ

Rogues: QQ

Mages: QQ

Paladins: QQ


....

>.>


tbh I'd give up stealth for dual wielding pistols in melee range.

With Titanium Weapon Chains. Then lets see people disarm me and kill me in 3 seconds flat then >:(

[Chrizesu]

It's probably from coping off of the original WotLK version and have yet to add the proper version.

Since they already stated that.

Camouflage (level 85): The hunter enters an obscured state that prevents him or her from taking ranged damage. The character would still be subject to melee or area-of-effect attacks, and dealing or taking damage will break the Camouflage effect. The hunter can move and set traps when under Camouflage, and will receive a damage bonus when attacking while under Camouflage (which will then break the effect).

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 6675&sid=1

A clarification of Camouflage and what becoming obscured actually means:
Camouflage is *not* stealth. Your enemies will never wonder where you are. We're trying to use the new Cataclysm water effect to put a shimmering PREDATORy visual on you. It's protection from ranged attacks and it gives you some combat bonuses, but it's not like Shadowmeld or rogue / druid stealth where players can't find you.

The idea with it is that Hunters are only vulnerable to melee attacks or ranged AEs while they are in the obscured state. If you target a camo hunter or a rogue using Smoke Bomb, you will get an error message saying something like "Target obscured." You can see them and target them, but can't use your attacks. Imagine they are behind a pillar or something. You can try and get off an AE near them or you can move to melee.

As most of you know, we tried Camo once before, but because it was true stealth it was very hard to balance, plus it felt like we were just handing out the same cool abilities to every class instead of coming with unique mechanics. Hunters were so overwhelmingly excited about the basic idea that we wanted to try it again, but not as stealth.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/cata ... ew-hunter/ as well

[Sphax]

i aggree with Chizesu

its still Alph they might not have yet made the new mechanic of "obscured" and simple copy pasted the old camouflage from wotlk beta.

Although its kinda of an unfair mechanic. Why? because if someone would run low graphics would see the hunter like a normall target... that would mean that the pvpers wouldnt use the "new graphics" so they could spot the hunter easier


Sooooooo..

its either option 1 that obscured mechanic isnt ready or 2: that they dont want to use the new glow/mirror graphics on the hunter.


for my self i hope we keep the stealth... i can fnnaly do stealth runs in old instances to get achievments more easily XD

[Skyshot]

I would do a couple hundred back flips irl out of pure glee if this goes live. I'm not going to get my hopes up too high though. >_<

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Yes, we KNOW about the class previews. That being said, this version of Camoflauge was uncovered along with COBRA SHOT, which did NOT exist in WotLK. Not only that, but the tooltip for heroic leap has changed to it's new tooltip. It seems to point to them messing around with real stealth for hunters at the moment.

THAT BEING SAID, I and several other people have already said that even if this IS a real version of it, that it probably won't make it to release. Should it? Hell yes it should, it's not like we'd be able to use it as effectively as druids or rogues anyway, with it on a minute cooldown. Our misdirection was given away, so why can't we get a slightly lesser version of other classes mechanics?

[Chrizesu]

The second part of my post was actually from a blue clarification.

[Golden]

The second part of my post was actually from a blue clarification.

However that was when the previews were published and Camo's function has obviously changed from that. The tooltip that appeared in Alpha is way too different compared to the preview one, so it seems that they changed their mind about it - again.

[Chrizesu]

The second part of my post was actually from a blue clarification.

However that was when the previews were published and Camo's function has obviously changed from that. The tooltip that appeared in Alpha is way too different compared to the preview one, so it seems that they changed their mind about it - again.

Possible. It could be that the obscured mechanic was also too difficult to stabilize and they're going as a change of mind.

Programmers do that.

Edit: That reminds me, I need to ask mania some things for a career project.

[Mania]

Ask away! Well, probably better to e-mail or PM me.

[Falconer]

This sounds really cool, but I liked that in the old version you could attack mob and not get hit by ranged or spells.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Now, I'm no programmer or anything, but the other way sounded like it'd be REALLY hard to do from a technical standpoint. It basically sounded ((Or sounds, since I still have no idea which variant is really on it's way)) like it was going to create an 'invisible wall' in front of the hunter that could be melee'd through, or AoE'd through, but could not be ranged through, and would force mobs into melee range. That is a LOT of flags for one ability. It has to make you immune to two forms of damage ((Not to hard)) but not from another version of those same forms of damage ((Significantly harder)) give an LoS warning to the player or mob trying to single target ((Now we're stacking)), and then allow things to happen from inside of a certain range. This all from the guys who took four years to fix our dead zone bug, who never really fixed our auto-casting bug, and from the people who programed my pet to apparently randomly play race the mob around the area when I send him in.

[Chrizesu]

Now, I'm no programmer or anything, but the other way sounded like it'd be REALLY hard to do from a technical standpoint. It basically sounded ((Or sounds, since I still have no idea which variant is really on it's way)) like it was going to create an 'invisible wall' in front of the hunter that could be melee'd through, or AoE'd through, but could not be ranged through, and would force mobs into melee range. That is a LOT of flags for one ability. It has to make you immune to two forms of damage ((Not to hard)) but not from another version of those same forms of damage ((Significantly harder)) give an LoS warning to the player or mob trying to single target ((Now we're stacking)), and then allow things to happen from inside of a certain range. This all from the guys who took four years to fix our dead zone bug, who never really fixed our auto-casting bug, and from the people who programed my pet to apparently randomly play race the mob around the area when I send him in.

I think you got the gist of it.

And I thought the dead zone was on purpose. Personally I kind of hate the way hunters are going now, since in cata they'll be almost completely defenseless in melee range.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Deadzone was always a bug. Melee is 0-5 yard range, and ranged is 5-35 yard range. Except that for some reason, between 5 and maybe 7 yards, hunters were unable to do anything. It was a well known bug, and it was HEAVILY exploited in PvP, specifically by mages, but smart casters in general knew how to utilize it.

It depends on how they handle melee for hunters. Melee was pretty much an absolute wash for Wrath of the Lich king, which means they can either take the step to make use closer to casters ((Removal of minimum range)) or impliment NEW and different melee abilities, to actually give us a melee option. Actually, they stated early in Wrath that their intention was to make a hunter in melee not so much of a sitting duck, but we never, ever saw anything come of that. Maybe they've finally gotten around to it?

Also side note, it is far more likely that we will get the stealthed version of Camoflauge then the predator version. I'm kind of getting the feeling that they were talking out of both sides of their mouth for those previews, without actually looking into it to see if it could be done. It is entirely possible, mind you, but I can't think of a single other ability that activates that many different little things in game. I'm not refering to damage buffs or armor buffs or what have you from forms, I am talking about the sheer number of complicated actions that have to take place in order for an ability like this to function 100% or as close to it as possible of the time. I am also pretty sure we'd run into the famous vanish problems that rogues have, where spells in flight will penetrate the camo.

All speculation, of course.

[Chrizesu]

I'm thinking they were going to try to go off the code of deterrence.

Deterrence
Instant cast
When activated, increases parry chance by 100%, reduces the chance ranged attacks will hit you by 100% and grants a 100% chance to deflect spells. While Deterrence is active, you cannot attack. Lasts 5 sec.

And then merge it with coding from stealth and toss a visual effect over the hunter (much like an aura). As well as putting a ui error so that people don't waste shots.

If they do manage to cut it together, I think the ui component may be cut to be patched in latter because of coding implications.

It is still to be seen whether it will be a vanish if stealth, or must be out of combat.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

That's different, that's setting certain parameters to 100%, and adding in magic to it, which they just used from death knight's. This is an ability that doesn't render you invincible, it causes, from my understanding, an LoS warning to trigger, which then forces mobs to move to a point where they can attack you. It's not an immunity or a 100% chance to dodge or parry, it works unlike anything we currently have.