Hunter Changes on wednesday

[Slickrock]

From the actual patch notes...

Classes
Hunter
General
[Requires a realm restart] Arcane Shot now deals 10% more damage.
[Requires a realm restart] Cobra Shot now deals 10% more damage.
[Requires a realm restart] Hunter Pets summoned by Stampede now only use auto-attacks against their target.
[Requires a realm restart] Steady Shot now deals 10% more damage.
Talents
[Requires a realm restart] Blink Strikes now increases pet basic damage by 40% (down from 50%). The teleportation effect now has a 10-yard minimum range, and cannot happen more than once every 20 seconds.

So a damage reduction, plus only auto-attack, vs buffed Arcane and Cobra (or Steady and Arcane).

So Stampede is dead as a burst cooldown, probably can be mostly ignored like FocusFire.

I wonder if this would actually be an overall buff for Marks/SV?

[Neilaren]

I wonder if this would actually be an overall buff for Marks/SV?

Yeah, seems that way. An BM is either breaking even on ideal raid fights or looking at a 1% loss on least ideal raid fights (meh).
Looks like they changed their minds a bit and dropped the Arcane buff a bit to also buff Cobra/Steady so it wouldn't all be piled into one shot. That should mitigate SV's concern about Arcane vs Explosive shot, I think.

I'm worried about the flavor aspects. Stampede is bland now. We were already kind of bland to begin with. Come on, devs, give the specs some spice!
Especially if they're gong to just keep approaching these "problems" with the worst solutions that don't seem to have any real thought put into them... but that's often what a hotfix is!

I'll have to see what they have in mind for 5.4 since they put such a "wait and see!" tagline on it.

[Slickrock]

One more update, supposedly the BlinkStrikes damage nerf was reverted... who knows what will be on live.



Stampede is getting pretty weak as a lvl 87 talent.

From the official post:

Hunter

General
Arcane Shot now deals 10% more damage. [Requires a realm restart]
Cobra Shot now deals 10% more damage. [Requires a realm restart]
Hunter Pets summoned by Stampede now only use auto-attacks against their target. [Requires a realm restart]
Steady Shot now deals 10% more damage. [Requires a realm restart]
Talents
Blink Strikes now has a 10-yard minimum range, and the teleportation effect cannot happen more than once every 20 seconds. [Requires a realm restart]

With the BlinkStrikes change reverted, PVE dps should be fine, but I wonder if wasting a CD on Stampede will be worth it now?

[SpiritBinder]

From the actual patch notes...

Classes
Hunter
General
[Requires a realm restart] Arcane Shot now deals 10% more damage.
[Requires a realm restart] Cobra Shot now deals 10% more damage.
[Requires a realm restart] Hunter Pets summoned by Stampede now only use auto-attacks against their target.
[Requires a realm restart] Steady Shot now deals 10% more damage.
Talents
[Requires a realm restart] Blink Strikes now increases pet basic damage by 40% (down from 50%). The teleportation effect now has a 10-yard minimum range, and cannot happen more than once every 20 seconds.

So a damage reduction, plus only auto-attack, vs buffed Arcane and Cobra (or Steady and Arcane).

So Stampede is dead as a burst cooldown, probably can be mostly ignored like FocusFire.

I wonder if this would actually be an overall buff for Marks/SV?

Ok, I'm in agreement that the constant adjusting is just becoming ridiculous, but the please let’s not act like chicken little.

So Stampede is dead as a burst cooldown, probably can be mostly ignored like FocusFire.

Really? If you want to ignore it then and don’t push one button that will net you DPS, even if it has been nerfed, well don’t then. But I'm sorry, likening it to Focus Fire… no, it's nothing like focus fire.

I get it, things are changing and our CC and burst is being reduced, yet again. It's not fun and we only have one major patch before the next expansion, why not just wait and shuffle it all up then? We have used it and come to rely on it in its current form for all of MOP.
However.. Yes it's change, and it can be annoying, but the sky is not falling. Our overall DPS will be higher with the CS, SS and AS buffs, we are just losing ability distinction and flavour.

The blink strikes, well we saw that coming, they said they did not like it's damage for a "Set and Forget" type talent, they said it as soon as it went live (yes they should have picked up on it during the PTR, but they didn't) For it being the “best for the dpsz” for BM and one does not have to even push a button, personally yes I think that is poor game design. There is no reward to incorporating extra button into your rotation.

The thing that I find the most annoying is that they are removing damage from an interesting source, and nerfing them. To then just to move it into a very uninteresting source, buttons that we HAVE to push and have no control over. It's lazy and poor game design. It means that we will require even less skill than pushing stampede (at least stampeded timing could be better and worse if you knew when to push it, you could actually gain more DPS from it if you lined it up correctly. You still can and will be able to, but it will be less detrimental)

Also as many have said, I'm not surprised, it's just another knee jerk reaction to PVP issues effecting PVE. I'm not surprised, but then I'm still disappointed…

[Aeladrine]

It's less a "chicken little" response and more a "we didn't have all the information" response; the original post was edited to reflect patch notes.

And, after all they've been putting us through, I think we're entitled to a little bit of chicken little-ing.

[SpiritBinder]

With the BlinkStrikes change reverted, PVE dps should be fine, but I wonder if wasting a CD on Stampede will be worth it now?

Not really, the BlinkStrikes change was not reverted, just the 40% back to 50%. The "teleportation effect now has a 10-yard minimum range, and cannot happen more than once every 20 seconds" is still in place.

and No, you will not be wasting a 1 CD to use stampede, I'm sure a stampede use will net you more DPS than an arcane shot, that’s essentially what your likening it to.

[SpiritBinder]

It's less a "chicken little" response and more a "we didn't have all the information" response; the original post was edited to reflect patch notes.

And, after all they've been putting us through, I think we're entitled to a little bit of chicken little-ing.

I get it Aeladrine, it's a nerf to blink strikes and stampede, it's kind of shitty and it came from nowhere, our burst is quite possible becoming the worst of all classes if it keeps up... BUT.

Our sustained dps is going up with the other buffs (although in a very boring fashion) AND when people are going to say things like "probably can be mostly ignored like Focus Fire" and wondering if a 5 minute cool down is worth one global. That’s when I think people need to stop saying "The sky is falling!"

Again, this change is naff, but some of the replies are becoming a little over zealous in misinformation.

[Silivren]

I don't play a hunter anymore, this is partly the reason why.. If I played a hunter it'd be for pet collecting only. I feel bad because of all these nerfs I see. It's like.. It's just annoying anymore and it isn't even my main class. >.<

[Castile]

I don't like it, dps boost or not. It feels like BC all over again where you hit one shot and had a windserpent. That was pretty much our class then and it seems it will be again. Our one interesting and exciting boost spell is pretty much 5 kittens licking the boss. Yawn.

[Neilaren]

The thing that I find the most annoying is that they are removing damage from an interesting source, and nerfing them. To then just to move it into a very uninteresting source, buttons that we HAVE to push and have no control over. It's lazy and poor game design. It means that we will require even less skill than pushing stampede (at least stampeded timing could be better and worse if you knew when to push it, you could actually gain more DPS from it if you lined it up correctly. You still can and will be able to, but it will be less detrimental)

Also as many have said, I'm not surprised, it's just another knee jerk reaction to PVP issues effecting PVE. I'm not surprised, but then I'm still disappointed…[/color]

Pretty much my beef, too. In raiding my damage is going to stay equal, but there's certainly less excitement, which leaves me feeling empty. My opener is my favorite part of every fight! Oh, Blizzard, you could have done this in better ways and as a game developer aspirant it makes me so very angry at you. :<

Maybe we'll finally get the warlock treatment next expansion... you know, three entirely different-feeling specs. That's all I want!

[SpiritBinder]

I don't like it, dps boost or not. It feels like BC all over again where you hit one shot and had a windserpent. That was pretty much our class then and it seems it will be again. Our one interesting and exciting boost spell is pretty much 5 kittens licking the boss. Yawn.

Hahaha, love it!


"So, I Heardz You Haz a Boss Dat needs Lickin?"


Honestly though, I guess they could have been more creative... maybe a buff to AOTH?

Patch 4.0 Aspect of the Hawk increases attack power by 600.
Patch 4.1 Aspect of the Hawk now increases attack power by 2600, was 600.
Patch 4.3(.5) Aspect of the Hawk now increases attack power by 3200(?), was 2600.
Patch 5.0 Aspect of the Hawk increases attack power by 10%.
Patch 5.1 Aspect of the Hawk now increases attack power by 15%, was 10%.
Patch 5.3 Aspect of the Hawk now increases attack power by 25%, was 15%.

Patch 5.4 Aspect of the Hawk now increases attack power by 35%, was 25% ?

[Maizou]

I understand and have no problem with the change.

Blink Strikes was just too strong, and they've always said it should be more rewarding to use an active skill correctly than to use a passive skill.

I for one welcome the 10% damage buff to arcane shot and Steady/Cobra Shot. All of these changes will account for a DPS increase for people who do their rotation correctly.

[Gimlion]

The 10 yard min range is actually a pretty big nerf, considering pets are rarely 10 yards from their target. This means a pet will like only blink once per fight unless you're on add control. Major loss in damage if you ask me.

Secondly, WHY THE FUCK are all these bitches crying to that Dev's twitter you posted? I went through and literally every tweet was a response trying to defend some of the 'compensation' we got because everyone is crying for us to get nerfed into the fucking ground.

One person even said that hunters RUINED PVP this expac. WHAT IN THE HELL?! I PvPd until I quit, and nothing I did could ever get me to burning down a healadin or surviving the stunlock of a damn rogue. That shit is too much. Fuck WoW, and fuck the majority of the community, selfish greedy bitchy assholes who do nothing but cry. Thank God there's a lack of those people in this forum, otherwise all my ties to the game would be obliterated.

[AdamSavage]

The 10 yard min range is actually a pretty big nerf, considering pets are rarely 10 yards from their target. This means a pet will like only blink once per fight unless you're on add control. Major loss in damage if you ask me.

Secondly, WHY THE FUCK are all these bitches crying to that Dev's twitter you posted? I went through and literally every tweet was a response trying to defend some of the 'compensation' we got because everyone is crying for us to get nerfed into the fucking ground.

One person even said that hunters RUINED PVP this expac. WHAT IN THE HELL?! I PvPd until I quit, and nothing I did could ever get me to burning down a healadin or surviving the stunlock of a damn rogue. That shit is too much. Fuck WoW, and fuck the majority of the community, selfish greedy bitchy assholes who do nothing but cry. Thank God there's a lack of those people in this forum, otherwise all my ties to the game would be obliterated.

Till Blizzard starts making changes that only apply to PVP, then we will keep getting this.

[Slickrock]

It's less a "chicken little" response and more a "we didn't have all the information" response; the original post was edited to reflect patch notes.

And, after all they've been putting us through, I think we're entitled to a little bit of chicken little-ing.

I get it Aeladrine, it's a nerf to blink strikes and stampede, it's kind of shitty and it came from nowhere, our burst is quite possible becoming the worst of all classes if it keeps up... BUT.

Our sustained dps is going up with the other buffs (although in a very boring fashion) AND when people are going to say things like "probably can be mostly ignored like Focus Fire" and wondering if a 5 minute cool down is worth one global. That’s when I think people need to stop saying "The sky is falling!"

Again, this change is naff, but some of the replies are becoming a little over zealous in misinformation.

Hey Spirit, you know, you are as knee-jerk as the rest, in just a more arrogant pissant way.

Regarding FF, if you had done your reading on EJ, it's been found that FF was at best a marginal dps increase over keeping the Frenzy stacks up on your pet, depending on fight mechanics. And it's a clunky in it's latest implementation, since it can't be bound with anything to take advantage of burst, since it's off the GCD.

Have you done any math to sim the new Stampede? Do you know what it hits for? Well?.. I'm waiting.

The Blink change will be a nasty AOE nerf, but it won't effect boss fight dps much.

But you are right in one thing, they are adding back the lost dps in the most boring way possible, which will be the worst for PVP, and possibly bring back Arcane spam for MM.

[Slickrock]

The 10 yard min range is actually a pretty big nerf, considering pets are rarely 10 yards from their target. This means a pet will like only blink once per fight unless you're on add control. Major loss in damage if you ask me.

Depends on the fight.. Solo boss fights, no loss. Council? So busy doing other things, hadn't payed attention to see how much Blink contributed on that fight. But it will hurt AOE trash packs, likely putting SV way ahead again on that.

[Slickrock]

I understand and have no problem with the change.

Blink Strikes was just too strong, and they've always said it should be more rewarding to use an active skill correctly than to use a passive skill.

I for one welcome the 10% damage buff to arcane shot and Steady/Cobra Shot. All of these changes will account for a DPS increase for people who do their rotation correctly.

For PVE it wasn't that OP, thankfully they rolled back the damage nerf.

I can live with the AOE loss since boss fight dps is what really matters. But we really didn't have the chance to see what the real impact was, and how to best use it. Sadly Blizz is in dartboard mode with changes, so who knows what the hotfixes will be next week.

[Maizou]

Just out of curiosity... you guys HAVE looked at how miniscule the damage from Bite/Smack/Claw is on Stampede on Live without Blink Strikes, right?

It's like 2-3% of the stampede's damage. Their main damage comes from the auto attack.

It made Blink Strike WAY too strong. That is why they buffed Arcane and Steady/Cobra to compensate for those who don't use Blink Strikes.

This change is simple. It was too strong in combination with Blink Strikes, and in PvP, Smack/Bite/Claw from 5 different pets caused a lot of pushback on top of their auto attacks.

[Castile]

Just out of curiosity... you guys HAVE looked at how miniscule the damage from Bite/Smack/Claw is on Stampede on Live without Blink Strikes, right?

It's like 2-3% of the stampede's damage. Their main damage comes from the auto attack.

It made Blink Strike WAY too strong. That is why they buffed Arcane and Steady/Cobra to compensate for those who don't use Blink Strikes.

This change is simple. It was too strong in combination with Blink Strikes, and in PvP, Smack/Bite/Claw from 5 different pets caused a lot of pushback on top of their auto attacks.

Our class overall is weak though..they should of left Blink and Stampede. In the grand scheme of things it by no means made us OP nor did it bring us close to being on par with anyone.

And in pvp it was our one strong ability. It didn't stop us being locked down by a rogue or killing a pally like others have said. Arcane shot is a very small compensation for an expansion of s^&**y treatment of hunters imo.

[SpiritBinder]

Hey Spirit, you know, you are as knee-jerk as the rest, in just a more arrogant pissant way.

Regarding FF, if you had done your reading on EJ, it's been found that FF was at best a marginal dps increase over keeping the Frenzy stacks up on your pet, depending on fight mechanics. And it's a clunky in it's latest implementation, since it can't be bound with anything to take advantage of burst, since it's off the GCD.

Have you done any math to sim the new Stampede? Do you know what it hits for? Well?.. I'm waiting.

The Blink change will be a nasty AOE nerf, but it won't effect boss fight dps much.

But you are right in one thing, they are adding back the lost dps in the most boring way possible, which will be the worst for PVP, and possibly bring back Arcane spam for MM.

Wow,ok... way to get rather... direct. I thought I was being pretty level headed about it all

I know the benefits (or lack of) from FF and how it's a very marginal dps increase. That’s why I said that I didn't understand why stampede was now being compared to it, and thrown into the same basket of "probably can be mostly ignored like FocusFire." Your telling me to do my reading on EJ about something that we already agreed on.

You also tell me to do the maths on the new stampede, that I can't test, because it's not live yet... impossible much? But as already Tweeted by Holinka
"Pet special abilities on stampede represent less than 1% of your DPS on a fight but cause a big problem in PvP"
(from what I've read (but cannot confirm), the main reason they removed the specials from pets was the combo of the new blink strikes and stampede. If you had that talent, ALL your stampeding pets would also have it and therefore was quite a DPS Burst they did not expect/find that out before)

In fact, the only reason you are asking me to sim stampede was only because your referring to me questioning your thinking of weather stampede will be even worth a cool down now. Even if the damage was reduced but 50%, it's still worth the zero focus it costs, and the 1 global it takes to push it. I did not say the nerf was a good thing, just that it was still worth a global.

I could question you and your math on why the Blink change will be a nasty AOE nerf, but again, it's not even live so I can't expect you to do that.