Final Boss of Expansion....

[SylviaDragon]

Can we still get to beat up that Bronze dragon guy? I mean if he and Garrosh did not team up we would not be in this mess

I hope this will help point the way towards an infinite drake mount? yes? please? maybe?

[pop]

Next expansion would be zaela+garrosh baby riding wrathion as final boss cause we need more orc baddies

[Krysteena]

Can we still get to beat up that Bronze dragon guy? I mean if he and Garrosh did not team up we would not be in this mess

I hope this will help point the way towards an infinite drake mount? yes? please? maybe?

I like your way of thinking

[Royi]

THIS JUST IN

END BOSS IS ANOTHER ORC

NO ONE IS SURPRISED

I'm calling it as well, there's gonna be another troll raid.

The Eye - BRAND NEW INSTANCE - tuned to level 100 - yes all the bosses are the same - yes it still takes 10 minutes for KT to stop talking and attack - but.....


Actually i wonder how many BC raids they are just going to Re-do. I am excited about a updated UBRS (hopefully 10 man and dungeon finderable) and the MC 40 man LFR.

And I really hope its just not another Orc. I want to fight some Burning Legion - or Gul'dan or Ner'zhul or Gamon or whatevs.

[Royi]

Can we still get to beat up that Bronze dragon guy? I mean if he and Garrosh did not team up we would not be in this mess

I hope this will help point the way towards an infinite drake mount? yes? please? maybe?

some blizzard guy did tweet that a request for Infinite Drake was "noted"

[Xella]

Spoilers all 'round here :x

Thrall is the one that kills Garrosh, and the questline/scenario that it occurs in (in Nagrand) is really... blech. There was a really nice summary of the current issues with it here.

A friendly level 90 elite brown orc corpse labeled Kairoz <Keepers of Time> was also been found in the "Time-Lost Glade" above Shatt, but nobody else seems to have seen any sort of quest or gossip text that actually mentions what happens/ed to him, except that he's a corpse and orc-shaped. The orc shape makes sense, the corpse bit requires a bit more explanation as far as I'm concerned :P

[Krysteena]

Spoilers all 'round here

Thrall is the one that kills Garrosh, and the questline/scenario that it occurs in (in Nagrand) is really... blech. There was a really nice summary of the current issues with it here.

A friendly level 90 elite brown orc corpse labeled Kairoz <Keepers of Time> was also been found in the "Time-Lost Glade" above Shatt, but nobody else seems to have seen any sort of quest or gossip text that actually mentions what happens/ed to him, except that he's a corpse and orc-shaped. The orc shape makes sense, the corpse bit requires a bit more explanation as far as I'm concerned

I've had enough of...I don't want to give more spoilers. I've had enough of green Jesus for Goodness sake. The quest had a silly name, even from the horde perceptive. Why can't Vol'Jin come in? I get he's had special treatment lately, for obvious reasons, but Garrosh was ass brain to his people. And Lor'themars people. Why not have Lor'themar or Vol'Jin come do the honours, and actually fight beside you? This probably didn't need to all be in mini text, but just in case ^_^

[SylviaDragon]

hopefully this is not considered a spoiler since its commenting on a side rant twice removed concerning Thrall, but i shall never the less hide it just to be safe.

I wish we saw less of thrall and more of Vol'jin and the other leaders. I feel like Thrall's moment in the spotlight is over. he has saved the world, given up the title of warchief & got his butt kicked in soo. he has gone from being an npc you could kill as part of [ for the alliance!] to an earthen ring friendly npc that helps out both factions. not to mention he is visibly growing older and is a dad now. go take care of your kid man, let the other leaders have a chance to gain some depth and advance the plot before blizz decides to kill you off.
I would like to see the blood elves and undead get some more plot development. I want to see vol'jin establish himself as the new leader and start calling the shots.
at this point it feels more like Thrall is a part of the earthen ring rather than the horde so seeing him take the lead on their behalf feels weird to me; even if he does feel responsible for putting Garrosh in a seat of power.

if we keep doing this we will need a decoder ring and a black light to find all the hidden messages.

[Krysteena]

hopefully this is not considered a spoiler since its commenting on a side rant twice removed concerning Thrall, but i shall never the less hide it just to be safe.

I wish we saw less of thrall and more of Vol'jin and the other leaders. I feel like Thrall's moment in the spotlight is over. he has saved the world, given up the title of warchief & got his butt kicked in soo. he has gone from being an npc you could kill as part of [ for the alliance!] to an earthen ring friendly npc that helps out both factions. not to mention he is visibly growing older and is a dad now. go take care of your kid man, let the other leaders have a chance to gain some depth and advance the plot before blizz decides to kill you off.
I would like to see the blood elves and undead get some more plot development. I want to see vol'jin establish himself as the new leader and start calling the shots.
at this point it feels more like Thrall is a part of the earthen ring rather than the horde so seeing him take the lead on their behalf feels weird to me; even if he does feel responsible for putting Garrosh in a seat of power.

if we keep doing this we will need a decoder ring and a black light to find all the hidden messages.

*activating decoder ring* yes. I agree with you.
if Thrall isn't careful with his running off to save the day thing, his son is going to grow up with daddy issues and boom, we've got a whole new expansion just on that. Main character? Green Jesus.
I think Vol'Jin is being submissive at this point. He's just become warchief and (quoting here) feels he's not worthy. I know that man, but please do something exciting! Man up! Be blue Jesus!

[Nazja]

Can we still get to beat up that Bronze dragon guy? I mean if he and Garrosh did not team up we would not be in this mess

He's actually already dead, afaik. You find his mag'har body in some glade.

[PorrasouxRex]

This is probably going to be my biggest complaint about WoD. I can accept going back in time, I can accept no flying, and other changes that people have been getting upset about.

But this is ridiculous. I know a lot of people here are mainly Alliance, and maybe you dislike Horde's story or plot. But I main Horde, and Horde has always been my faction for several years. Warcraft 3 sure, he was a bit of a hot-head until he redeemed himself by freeing the Orcs. But this "alternate timeline" was a chance to have Grom back without being enslaved, and for his character to truly shine.

Blizzard just made one the Horde's BIGGEST heroes, into Garrosh 2.0. Sure, again he was a hot-head. But he was a warrior from another planet that was enslaved by DEMONS. And more importantly, he REDEEMED HIMSELF AND FREED THE ORCS. Alliance have not been getting a lot of love over these past few years, and I get that. But now it seems like Blizzard is disrespecting THE HORDE'S ORIGIN. Like orcs or not, they were what formed the Horde.

Sure, make Thrall's father a good guy still. Having the blood of Thrall clearly makes you immune to bad writing.

I wanted the Burning Legion to come back and have a big bad demon as the final boss, to go along with Mists of Pandaria's theme of "The Burning Legion are coming back!" Not another Hellscream boss...

[Lupis]

But this is ridiculous. I know a lot of people here are mainly Alliance, and maybe you dislike Horde's story or plot. But I main Horde, and Horde has always been my faction for several years. Warcraft 3 sure, he was a bit of a hot-head until he redeemed himself by freeing the Orcs. But this "alternate timeline" was a chance to have Grom back without being enslaved, and for his character to truly shine.

Blizzard just made one the Horde's BIGGEST heroes, into Garrosh 2.0. Sure, again he was a hot-head. But he was a warrior from another planet that was enslaved by DEMONS. And more importantly, he REDEEMED HIMSELF AND FREED THE ORCS. Alliance have not been getting a lot of love over these past few years, and I get that. But now it seems like Blizzard is disrespecting THE HORDE'S ORIGIN. Like orcs or not, they were what formed the Horde.

Sure, make Thrall's father a good guy still. Having the blood of Thrall clearly makes you immune to bad writing.

Mmm, yeah, I'm with you on this. Grom is... not big-bad-villain material. At all! Making him into yet another Hellscream villain seems like really lazy, bad writing. They're doing with same thing with Grom that they did to Garrosh, where they have several character concepts that CANNOT mix and then they mash them all together into one terrible train wreck.

I just can't see Grom being... who they're making him into. He's a hero of the Horde, one of the biggest there is, and now he's evil? That's like making Broxigar suddenly be a villain! That's like making Garrosh into a vi- oh wait they already did that. Because what is cohesive writing.

Just not pleased with this at all. The Alliance needs a LOT more attention, and for the love of the gods, the Horde needs to stop being villainized at every possible opportunity. Can we PLEASE stop having big Horde lore characters go evil on us when they have no actual motivation to do so?

(I will argue, however, that Thrall/Thrall's lineage are not at all free of bad writing. Thrall is almost as big a train wreck as Garrosh, he's just a ~*good guy*~ train wreck. I'm STILL furious about what they did to his character.)

[PorrasouxRex]

But this is ridiculous. I know a lot of people here are mainly Alliance, and maybe you dislike Horde's story or plot. But I main Horde, and Horde has always been my faction for several years. Warcraft 3 sure, he was a bit of a hot-head until he redeemed himself by freeing the Orcs. But this "alternate timeline" was a chance to have Grom back without being enslaved, and for his character to truly shine.

Blizzard just made one the Horde's BIGGEST heroes, into Garrosh 2.0. Sure, again he was a hot-head. But he was a warrior from another planet that was enslaved by DEMONS. And more importantly, he REDEEMED HIMSELF AND FREED THE ORCS. Alliance have not been getting a lot of love over these past few years, and I get that. But now it seems like Blizzard is disrespecting THE HORDE'S ORIGIN. Like orcs or not, they were what formed the Horde.

Sure, make Thrall's father a good guy still. Having the blood of Thrall clearly makes you immune to bad writing.

Mmm, yeah, I'm with you on this. Grom is... not big-bad-villain material. At all! Making him into yet another Hellscream villain seems like really lazy, bad writing. They're doing with same thing with Grom that they did to Garrosh, where they have several character concepts that CANNOT mix and then they mash them all together into one terrible train wreck.

I just can't see Grom being... who they're making him into. He's a hero of the Horde, one of the biggest there is, and now he's evil? That's like making Broxigar suddenly be a villain! That's like making Garrosh into a vi- oh wait they already did that. Because what is cohesive writing.

Just not pleased with this at all. The Alliance needs a LOT more attention, and for the love of the gods, the Horde needs to stop being villainized at every possible opportunity. Can we PLEASE stop having big Horde lore characters go evil on us when they have no actual motivation to do so?

(I will argue, however, that Thrall/Thrall's lineage are not at all free of bad writing. Thrall is almost as big a train wreck as Garrosh, he's just a ~*good guy*~ train wreck. I'm STILL furious about what they did to his character.)

I agree with you on all fronts. And by Thrall's lineage being immune to bad writing, I meant that they don't suddenly turn evil on a flip of a dime. In the Seige of Orgrimmar trailer Garrosh walks down the bridge with explosions in the back round saying "All will burn in the fires of my hatred" WHAT HATRED? BECAUSE THE OTHER HORDE RACES DIDN'T AGREE WITH SOME OF YOUR DECISIONS?! *table flip*

[Lupis]

Don't even get me STARTED on late-MOP Garrosh. *throws six tables* So many characters have been butchered recently. Jaina's "quick we need drama" character flip of the century (and her apparent complete ignorance of Northwatch???), Garrosh's "quick we need drama" also character flip of the century (because after setting up a clear redemption arc, the best decision is to FORGET IT EVER HAPPENED frfhtuiashsaghfki) and Thrall's "did somebody say Jeeeeeeeeeeesus?" suddenly-Go'el-suddenly-forgets-everything-he-stands-for character flip and ahgdagjkhfggdfdsg

...I'm gunna go hit a tree a few times.

(I had a lot of feelings about Thrall when I was young and had just started playing. Very few things tick me off more than what they've done to him.)

[PorrasouxRex]

Don't even get me STARTED on late-MOP Garrosh. *throws six tables* So many characters have been butchered recently. Jaina's "quick we need drama" character flip of the century (and her apparent complete ignorance of Northwatch???), Garrosh's "quick we need drama" also character flip of the century (because after setting up a clear redemption arc, the best decision is to FORGET IT EVER HAPPENED frfhtuiashsaghfki) and Thrall's "did somebody say Jeeeeeeeeeeesus?" suddenly-Go'el-suddenly-forgets-everything-he-stands-for character flip and ahgdagjkhfggdfdsg

...I'm gunna go hit a tree a few times.

(I had a lot of feelings about Thrall when I was young and had just started playing. Very few things tick me off more than what they've done to him.)

I feel after they made Thrall go down the path of Shamanism more, is when his character started to fall apart. In the Warcraft games he clearly acted like how an Orc should act. Now it feels like Thrall is just a human in green skin.

[Nachtwulf]

I think Garrosh's pride/hatred going off the chain was supposed to be the work of the sha as much as anything. He shows up on Pandaria with all his grand sucking personality flaws and the sha are just like MMMM! TOASTY! I think it's likely that they hinted around subconsciously to get him to go dig up the Heart too and convinced him it was a spiffy idea.

[Lupis]

True, the Sha are a big influence. Though how long did the Sha's influence last? In War Crimes, Garrosh was acting just as awful as ever, despite the Sha of Pride being long defeated. ...Actually he was probably acting worse than ever, seeing as he turned into the Joker. And was all "I REGRET NOTHING HAHHAA".

But then, there's also the issue of Warcraft books being very unreliable and often badly written. So who knows if we can take War Crimes seriously when it comes to character development?

[PorrasouxRex]

I think Garrosh's pride/hatred going off the chain was supposed to be the work of the sha as much as anything. He shows up on Pandaria with all his grand sucking personality flaws and the sha are just like MMMM! TOASTY! I think it's likely that they hinted around subconsciously to get him to go dig up the Heart too and convinced him it was a spiffy idea.

Actually, considering the heart of the old god that created these sha was actually being controlled by Garrosh, Blizzard has said that it was hardly any Sha influence that made Garrosh this way. It was more along the lines of "ooo, if I can control the powers of an old god the true horde will be unstoppable." Again, terrible writing.

Let's look at what Garrosh achieved far more than any normal Orc:

Built Orgrimmar into a full functioning city instead of a bunch of rocks and sand.

Controlled AN OLD GOD FOR HIS BIDDING.

Was in a position to slaughter both Alliance AND the other Horde races plus a few Orcs (who, mind you, go completely against everything Orcs really stand for. It's like they did a complete 180 and said "We Orcs are peaceful and loving" That is not what an Orc is supposed to be. AT ALL.)

Had the Alliance on the ropes the entire expansion.

He did MORE compared to his father. Yet Horde are supposed to hate him because they made him racist? *FLIPS ALL TABLES* The Iron Horde is basically Warcraft Horde, and our Horde is now just a bunch of peaceloving morons. Why is Sylvanas still with us again?

[Lupis]

I wouldn't say the orcs had turned peaceful and loving. Thrall headed that way after during Cata, which was annoying, but he lead the orcs very differently before that point. Sure, they weren't going on the demon blood fueled war craze that they had been before, but he embraced what made them orcs. He embraced the blood craze, and instead of denying it to his people he encouraged them to use it to make themselves stronger. He encouraged the orcs to rely on honor above all else, which they sorely needed. War didn't stop, conquering didn't stop, he just had them calm down enough that they didn't run to their deaths. Which is very Orc indeed! Look at the Mag'har for an example of "true orcs". It's the demon-blood-crazed ones that you need to worry about, because they're acting out of a new and alien motivation.

(And Garrosh never reaaaally had the ability to crush the entire Alliance. He tried with Theramore and it backfired, because suddenly everyone ever teamed up to kill him. The Old God's heart... never really worked out either, because he never could control his tainted warriors besides Malkorok. Turning your own people against you by executing them in the streets? That's not the act of a strong leader, that's a tyrant, and the Horde had very, very good reason to hate him.)

Edit- sorry if this sounds harsh or all-knowing, I was rushed!)

[Krysteena]

Slyvanas...I'm pretty sure she's here because the Alliance simply won't accept her kind. Plus, it's for more selfish reasons. I'm not 100% sure. Here I'll say that I'm a little fuzzy on my lore of Sylvanas and most leaders. I'm good with Tyrande, Malfurion, Vol'Jin and...that's it I think.

Garrosh was racist, corrupt and an awful leader imo. Yes he made the Horde vicious. Yes he did loads more than any other Orc, aside from Thrall perhaps. But the Horde aren't the bad guys. There are no true lines between good and bad in the factions. Having Garrosh lead us made us seem bloodthirsty and a bunch of bird brains. Personally, I prefer the Horde being led by Vol'Jin. Thrall, I've never liked him. Vol'Jin I do like. He can be savage, but he's got the brains. He'll calculate, not just charge in. We've got enough of that due to his role in Pandaria. The Horde aren't bloodthirsty. Well. Most of us aren't. I've got off topic and I don't think I'm making complete sense. Garrosh was all for power. He'd do anything. Then again, us Hordies aren't going to stop and smell the pixel roses. We know that our leaders can be ruthless. Sylvanas is cruel in many cases. I'm more confused why we've seen nothing of Gallywix, the goblin leader. I'm not sure if that's his name, he's so unspoken of. He's gone into hiding and you wodve thought he would've played a role somewhere along the line.

*reroutes thread* It's just flaws in the writing, I guess. Or them thinking "Oh! Orcs are badass! Another!" Another Orc final boss? I know they said that it'll be very different from Garrosh, but bleh. I was thinking we'd get some burning legion action or somethin'. Not...this. Plus Thrall comes in yet again and kills Garrosh. Stop hogging the limelight Thrall! Be a daddy! Otherwise, we'll get your son grow up, have daddy issues and look! We'll have another Orc final boss on our hands